Shock Collars

[mrose_s]

okay. i've seen a lot of people saying to get rid of the dog. that will not happen i assure you. she won't. this situation seems all to familiar to me. it wasn;t untill recently that i relised that wat my stepdad did to our animals for years was abuse. i never picked up on it because i know he did love all of them.

buster is still touchy around his back legs. if you need him to move all you have to do is touch him near his tail and he jumps up with a start. years of getting kicked hard awake and told to get outside is responsible for that. only to be invited back in 30 minutes later. the first week i met this d**khead he picked my cat up by the tail and i screamed at him then.
he has belted our dogs, he has kicked them and thrown them. and i honeslty can't believe i didn't pick up on it untill after it was all over. i am hugley into stopping animal abuse so i'm appalled that i let it go on.

he never did it because he hated the animals, he just didn't understand and he was frustrated, which, incase it sounded like a defence for the lunatic, its not. i hate him. Buster is now a lot calmer thanks to him being out of the house.

i don't think you should give up your dog, what if it goes to a worse home or gets put down? give it a chance. there is not a force on earth that would make me give up buster. not for anything.

but be aware, you DO need to protect your dog from your father.


and now, you will have to work especially hard to make your dogs kennel a safe place. during the day go out there with him. get him into it and feed him in it, play with him in it. make it a safe and fun place.

if there is anything scary in the house, or around. like a fight between siblings, a thunderstorm whatever, take him out and sit him in his kennel. over time leave him there for longer periods of time till he see's it as his "bedroom"

and not all dogs sleep outside. we live in a very hot climate and my dog sleep in my bed every night! and my cat.

 

[Mutt Luv]

Ok, there is no way in the world that Rosco is going to a new home, I dont know how you could say that and I cant even think that, that is NOT going to happen.

Well we have the shock collar and we have the one that you press the button, so my mom is going to when he barks tell him "quite" if he does thats good but if he barks he will get shocked, I acutally dont think its THAT bad, I mean its teaching him to be QUITE and know what QUITE means NOT that we dont bark, so I dont think its that bad.

He likes his kennel I guess, I mean he doesnt hate it, its just its 8:30 below zero and he wants to come in also the SLED dogs below us gets him started, its not that he is is scard of the kennel.

My dad does NOT abuse him like I said on a regular basis, that was just a thing he did THAT time, its not a everyday thing.

He is excerized and given LOTS of mental stymulation he does agility, OB and rally also fetch and walks, he is a loved and cared for dog by me and my mom mostly well mostly me, he is MY dog and I love him tons.

 

[RD]

It is THAT bad. Stop downplaying the abuse. I really am sorry to be rude, but this is infuriating me and I don't understand how you can't think outside yourself and put yourself in the dog's position.Everything is NOT fine and dandy. Nothing wrong with a little optimism but yours is misguided.

Electrocuting him every time he barks is not teaching him the meaning of the word "quiet". I hope, now that you have a torture device, that you can prevent your dad from getting his hands on it and taking his "frustration" out on the dog this way. Hell, this is easier, he doesn't even have to get out of his chair!

For the money you spent on the shock collar, you could've had a consultation with a behaviorist. But the behaviorist would've told you the exact same thing you're hearing on this forum, so I guess you'd have disregarded that too.

I hope Rosco doesn't react poorly to this "training". I've seen how the misuse of these things can ruin a dog.

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Well, Mutt Luv, I'm really disappointed that you didn't take any of the GOOD advice given you here. I'm starting to think you posted in hopes that everyone would say "oooh, yes, a shock collar is the right thing to do!". Instead you had people tell you as it is.

You say your dad "totally beat up" your dog and then taped his mouth shut. When people reacted to that, you back-pedaled and tried to say your dad just yelled at the dog. But there HAD to be some hands on the dog in order to tape the mouth, and I'd be willing to bet those hands weren't exactly kind. I have no doubt that your dad DID beat the dog prior to taping his mouth.

I know you're only 14 but you're old enough to know what is right and wrong (at least I would hope you're that mature). Beating the dog, taping his mouth shut, leaving him outside in sub-zero weather, and now using a shock collar to shock him when he does a natural reaction like barking ... well, you are now condoning abuse. You do NOT love this dog if you're willing to go along with all that's being done to him. Love doesn't mean "I can treat my dog abusively as long as I SAY I love him" ... Love means you treat the dog right.

You think people have been harsh to you here, but you deserve harshness if you're willing to make excuses for what is happening to that poor dog. I am disgusted by people who will treat dogs like you have described your family doing. Shock collars can be a proper training tool in the right hands - someone who understands fully what they are doing and use it sparingly and with proper timing. Using it strictly as a punishment is ABUSE. Using it on a dog that is crying in an outdoor kennel, alone and unhappy, during sub-zero weather - that is HEARTLESS.

No, you don't love a dog and treat them like that. Did you even research online and find some information on why your dog should be inside with you, and how it would help build a bond in a working dog? How it would help keep you as a teenager out of drugs and alcohol? Did you even TRY to show how an indoor crate would cost less than a shock collar? Or did you just forget all that and let your dog continue to be abused?

I have to say I'm really tired of people saying "I looooove my dog!!!" as they're planning ways to torture the poor animal. Someone should be looking into where this dog is and sending the troopers to check it out. At least it would be on record that the family had been reported for dog abuse.

Sheesh. Poor dog.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Forecast for Talkeetna:
Tonight
Mostly clear. Lows 5 below to 5 above except 5 below to 15 below zero north of Talkeetna. Northwest wind 10 to 25 mph with local gusts to 35 mph. Wind chill readings 20 below to 35 below zero north of Talkeetna and along the Alaska Range.

 

[skyeboxer]

Matt Luv,

I don't know how long you've been around here. We have another young poster who had a mighty struggle on her hands to get her dog Hershey in from the cold. Hershey was an outdoor dog - all day, every day.

Spirit set her mind on getting Hershey inside. It hasn't been easy for her and she's still working on many issues but the hardest step was getting her parents to let Hershey in in the first place.

If you love that dog you'll get him indoors, work on the barking issue and keep the dog as far away from your father as your home permits. If you can't do that, if you love that dog, you'll find him a loving new home where he can be warm at night, secure and safe.

 

[Pomp]

Is MuttLuv even a serious poster? The posts so sound unintelligent that it seems troll-like. Nobody can be this dumb to argue that taping a dog's mouth shut isn't abuse.

 

[Maxy24]

Is MuttLuv even a serious poster?

yes this is very serious. my question to mutt Luv is how will you electricute your dog while you are sleeping? i mean if you do it from your bed you will not even be able to say the word quiet so he will not even learn the command.

He will assosiate the shock to the word quiet and maybe even the people around when he gets shocked. He may cower or run from you when you say the command, he could get aggressive when you go to put the collar on, he could get a sensitive neck. mostly he will be miserable, cold and alone and probably scared. I want you to go up to your dad or mom right NOW and say can we get a crate for our dog to sleep in my room? He will stop barking. Say you'll pay for it (it's less expensive than the shock collar anyways). If they say no then ask why. If thay say because dogs are supposed to stay outside at night say that most people's dogs sleep inside, infact you don't no many people at all who's dogs sleep outside. Tell them that they wanted to stop his barking and you know a way to do it without hurting your dog, why would they rather hurt this dog when they don't have to? Please ask them this, it's not fair that this has to happen because there is no reason for it, you need to fight this. I am also a teenager,15, and my parents know that I know what is best for our dog. i took full responsibility for all his needs. If you care fo your dog, you feed, bathe, walk and care for him in all other ways, then his sleeping conditions should be your descision too. This is not fair.

 

[Lizmo]

I completely agree with Grace and Melanie. Every word.

This is s terrible sad situation.

Mutt Luv, how can you say that what your dad did is not abuse? Even if he rarelly does it, can you say it's not abuse?

What happens if next time, it's worse? Causing your dog MAJOR harm. Like a broken rib, leg or neck?

And also, if you put a shock collar on him, he will probably be afriad of collars being put on his neck. Or afriad of you touching his neck.

Honestly, i think it will effect his personality permently.
I've see dogs that wear shock collars, they are NOT the same, they are not happy, they always have sad eyes, they don't run much, and there not as happy to see there owners. They get tense when ever the owners come out to see them.

ETA: Mutt Luv, Please listen to us. I am have seen this kind of thing first hand. A person I know, does this to her dogs. And the exaples I gave of what a dog is like is exactly what their dogs are like. It is HORRIBLY! sad to watch her dogs go through this, and they do not abuse like your dad did, but they do hit/yell. And she'd tell you her dogs were in a GREAT home too. She does OB with her dog too, but her dog doesn't enjoy by about 70% as much as Lizzie or other dogs I know do.

Mutt Luv, this is PURE ABUSE

 

[Herschel]

I tried to understand MuttLuv's problem and I didn't want to be harsh, but this is getting out of hand.

Tessa gave you a great suggestion: Get a crate and keep the dog in your bedroom at night. That would have saved you the cost of the shock collar.

Did you even ask your parents about a crate?

This poor, mistreated dog. Somewhere in your heart or your mind you know that your family is abusing this animal.

I know you won't re-home the dog and that is the saddest part of all of this. Your parents have made you so accustomed to this kind of behavior that you think that it is love, of all things. I truly hope that you don't carry this kind of neglect and ignorance to parenthood.

 

[Pomp]

Well said, Herschel.

 

[Whisper]

It is THAT bad. Stop downplaying the abuse. I really am sorry to be rude, but this is infuriating me and I don't understand how you can't think outside yourself and put yourself in the dog's position.Everything is NOT fine and dandy. Nothing wrong with a little optimism but yours is misguided.

Electrocuting him every time he barks is not teaching him the meaning of the word "quiet". I hope, now that you have a torture device, that you can prevent your dad from getting his hands on it and taking his "frustration" out on the dog this way. Hell, this is easier, he doesn't even have to get out of his chair!

For the money you spent on the shock collar, you could've had a consultation with a behaviorist. But the behaviorist would've told you the exact same thing you're hearing on this forum, so I guess you'd have disregarded that too.

I hope Rosco doesn't react poorly to this "training". I've seen how the misuse of these things can ruin a dog.

Well, Mutt Luv, I'm really disappointed that you didn't take any of the GOOD advice given you here. I'm starting to think you posted in hopes that everyone would say "oooh, yes, a shock collar is the right thing to do!". Instead you had people tell you as it is.

You say your dad "totally beat up" your dog and then taped his mouth shut. When people reacted to that, you back-pedaled and tried to say your dad just yelled at the dog. But there HAD to be some hands on the dog in order to tape the mouth, and I'd be willing to bet those hands weren't exactly kind. I have no doubt that your dad DID beat the dog prior to taping his mouth.

I know you're only 14 but you're old enough to know what is right and wrong (at least I would hope you're that mature). Beating the dog, taping his mouth shut, leaving him outside in sub-zero weather, and now using a shock collar to shock him when he does a natural reaction like barking ... well, you are now condoning abuse. You do NOT love this dog if you're willing to go along with all that's being done to him. Love doesn't mean "I can treat my dog abusively as long as I SAY I love him" ... Love means you treat the dog right.

You think people have been harsh to you here, but you deserve harshness if you're willing to make excuses for what is happening to that poor dog. I am disgusted by people who will treat dogs like you have described your family doing. Shock collars can be a proper training tool in the right hands - someone who understands fully what they are doing and use it sparingly and with proper timing. Using it strictly as a punishment is ABUSE. Using it on a dog that is crying in an outdoor kennel, alone and unhappy, during sub-zero weather - that is HEARTLESS.

No, you don't love a dog and treat them like that. Did you even research online and find some information on why your dog should be inside with you, and how it would help build a bond in a working dog? How it would help keep you as a teenager out of drugs and alcohol? Did you even TRY to show how an indoor crate would cost less than a shock collar? Or did you just forget all that and let your dog continue to be abused?

I have to say I'm really tired of people saying "I looooove my dog!!!" as they're planning ways to torture the poor animal. Someone should be looking into where this dog is and sending the troopers to check it out. At least it would be on record that the family had been reported for dog abuse.

Sheesh. Poor dog.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Forecast for Talkeetna:
Tonight
Mostly clear. Lows 5 below to 5 above except 5 below to 15 below zero north of Talkeetna. Northwest wind 10 to 25 mph with local gusts to 35 mph. Wind chill readings 20 below to 35 below zero north of Talkeetna and along the Alaska Range.

I completely agree with Grace and Melanie. Every word.

This is s terrible sad situation.

Mutt Luv, how can you say that what your dad did is not abuse? Even if he rarelly does it, can you say it's not abuse?

What happens if next time, it's worse? Causing your dog MAJOR harm. Like a broken rib, leg or neck?

And also, if you put a shock collar on him, he will probably be afriad of collars being put on his neck. Or afriad of you touching his neck.

Honestly, i think it will effect his personality permently.
I've see dogs that wear shock collars, they are NOT the same, they are not happy, they always have sad eyes, they don't run much, and there not as happy to see there owners. They get tense when ever the owners come out to see them.

ETA: Mutt Luv, Please listen to us. I am have seen this kind of thing first hand. A person I know, does this to her dogs. And the exaples I gave of what a dog is like is exactly what their dogs are like. It is HORRIBLY! sad to watch her dogs go through this, and they do not abuse like your dad did, but they do hit/yell. And she'd tell you her dogs were in a GREAT home too. She does OB with her dog too, but her dog doesn't enjoy by about 70% as much as Lizzie or other dogs I know do.

Mutt Luv, this is PURE ABUSE

I completley agree with RD, IQ, and Lizmo.

I find it terribly dissapointing and very sad you see nothing wrong with what is happning to your dog.
It is abuse. You told us what happened and then backed up in denial to cover for your parents.
Your dog is being abused and that is completely wrong and I am getting so angry reading this and I feel so sorry for your poor dog.
How can you defend someone who would hurt a living being?
I've seen cases on TV, where it was like your situation. Then finally the dog is hopping around with a broken leg.

 

[Mutt Luv]

Ok, you people are making it worse then it is, that was a one time thing and I do NOT think its right, and thats why we HAD to get the shock collar, I tryed to talk to my parents about NOT getting it but they are the adults, if we didnt get it my dad would have taken the dog to the pound, now I NEVER would have let that happen and I would have had to go somwhere, lol no where else to go really, but I woudnt let that happen, so my mom is like well you dont want to get rid of the dog do you, if we dont get the shock collar your dad will get rid of him, I'm trying to help the dog, so thats why we had to get one, he hasnt used it yet, he hasnt been barking.

Also, about when to tell him quite, thats my moms job, I'm asleep, I dont here it and she was the one who got it, all you have to do is yell out the window, QUIET and if he isnt he gets a little shock, not much my mom doesnt like it so he wont abuse it, plus he hasnt been barking.

 

[Mutt Luv]

Oh, I forgot to add about the comming inside, he is inside like most of the time, he just sleeps and eats outside, he is in right now and he will be in till I feed him, then I go out to play with him, then back inside the hours later time to eat then in again till bed time, he isnt ALWAYS outside, I'm VERY lucky he is in as much as he is, no other dog was ever let in this much, so I'm REALLY luck.

There is no way he could sleep in my room as much I would like him to he just cant out of the question He isnt even allowed upstars.

 

[Doberluv]

I don't think you're going to find too many people on this or any forum who sympathize with you and your family for abusing and torturing a dog, first by beating him, then taping his mouth shut, then applying an electrical shock to an already miserable dog who's outside in too cold a climate, who is lonely and shut away from his family. What a way to screw up a dog's psyche and make him one neurotic, blenderized mess, by beating with electricity... a dog who's already down. I don't care if it happened one time or two times or 50 times. You're in denial if you think what is happening is OK.

Dogs are social animals and not meant to be alone. They bark when they're alone and cold. You don't love animals. If you can't handle a dog, he should be with someone who can. People who treat animals that way disgust me. Your avatar: (Muttluv-dog training girl) What is that, some kind of a sick joke? You're just as bad as your parents for selfishly keeping this dog instead of re-homing him. Heck! He'd be better off euthanized.

 

[Herschel]

Heck! He'd be better off euthanized.

Dober...a little too harsh?

 

[Doberluv]

Well, that may be for some people. However, when I compare the visual of a frightened, lonely dog out in below freezing temperatures, crying, barking for someone to help him.....who is further being punished by having tape wound around his muzzle, being beaten, being shocked with electricity.....when I compare that to not having any of those things happening, such as when a dog is not on this earth anymore, yes, to me, being out of that misery is preferrable to my way of thinking.

 

[Pomp]

Ok, you people are making it worse then it is, that was a one time thing and I do NOT think its right, and thats why we HAD to get the shock collar, I tryed to talk to my parents about NOT getting it but they are the adults, if we didnt get it my dad would have taken the dog to the pound, now I NEVER would have let that happen and I would have had to go somwhere, lol no where else to go really, but I woudnt let that happen, so my mom is like well you dont want to get rid of the dog do you, if we dont get the shock collar your dad will get rid of him, I'm trying to help the dog, so thats why we had to get one, he hasnt used it yet, he hasnt been barking.

Also, about when to tell him quite, thats my moms job, I'm asleep, I dont here it and she was the one who got it, all you have to do is yell out the window, QUIET and if he isnt he gets a little shock, not much my mom doesnt like it so he wont abuse it, plus he hasnt been barking.

According to you, this abuse of your dog went from being a regular occurence, to not an everyday thing, to now a one time only thing...

I wish I could put a shock collar on your father and tape his mouth shut.

 

[skyeboxer]

Ahhh. Well, this whole thread is just so depressing. Dog in a bad situation, kid asking for advice, a great deal of experience and training knowledge on the forum and the best we can come up with is to beat the OP up about something her Dad did.

Okay, yes, the dad is beyond the pale and Matt Luv is backpeddalling like a dying duck to get out of the beating, taping mouth statement. Can we all take a step back here and a major deep breath and start again? My impression is of a person who really wants to do the right thing here but has limited resources or rights. The father's attitude is disgusting but the OP asked for ANY OTHER WAY TO STOP THE BARKING.

Given that this child loves the dog and wants to do what she can to get him to stop a behaviour that seems to drive Dad crazy, can we start there?

ML - some questions - it is so cold where you are that we are all concerned that this alone is basic abuse. How can you justify having your dog outside at night?

Why, why, why can he not be brought in at night? When he is inside during the day, what is the big deal? If he can't be brought into your room, is there no other snug corner you might allot to him?

Is your dog afraid of your father, mother or anybody else? Does he have any other problems other than the barking? If he is handshy and scared of people you need to get him out of there tout suite.

I'd really, really like to see you work this problem through both for Roscoe and for yourself. What your Dad did is so wrong that it hurts to contemplate poor Roscoe in that situation.

We can help you work through this but you have to be honest, not be defensive and be totally committed to the well.being of Roscoe. If in the end, that means finding him a new home, then sweetheart you are going to have face facts. But lets start at the beginning again, okay?

 

[Doberluv]

Dog in a bad situation, kid asking for advice, a great deal of experience and training knowledge on the forum and the best we can come up with is to beat the OP up about something her Dad did.

Just to set the record straight. I am not beating up the OP for something her father did. But I am objecting to the OP if this situation continues and the OP chooses to keep the dog under these circumstances. And by all that has been written, that is exactly what is intended. None of the advice given is going to be used, but instead rejected. So, that is why I wash my hands of this and chalk it up to yet one more animal out there being squashed by human hands.

 

[Lizmo]

Okay, I am very mad right now. This is outragous!

I am going with Dober on this one. Your not willing to do one thing for this dog. If you "really" loved this dog you would try and find him a GOOD home!

I am starting to get really depressed with this...If you are not willing to help your dog and try and find him a home, or teach your dad about being responsable pet owner (and really, that's out of the question now, you are just as low as your dad IMO) Your dog is no better off in staying with you, as opposed to being in a shelter.

People who treat animals that way disgust me. Your avatar: (Muttluv-dog training girl) What is that, some kind of a sick joke? You're just as bad as your parents for selfishly keeping this dog instead of re-homing him. Heck! He'd be better off euthanized.

I agree with Carrie!