Raw feeders I NEED YOU!!!

[HayleyMarie]

Ok. So I finally gave in and started Teagan on raw. So the raw that I started her on is from a woman at a farmers market selling raw dog food. The food is from a local farmer. So the food is raw chicken, bones and all. Ground up into frozen cubes.

But I though it was a good place to start and it was very resonably priced.

So right now I am just figuring out how much to feed her ect ect. I calculated that about 3-4 ounces a day. That probably will change as I see how she does on it.


But the questions I have is what do you guys supliment with? Since the food does not have other stuff misxed in.

And

How do you guys fiqure out how much they need? do you go by weight, activity level? If they get chunky on the food??? I pretty much went by the guide that came with the food.

Thanks

 

[~Jessie~]

Ok. So I finally gave in and started Teagan on raw. So the raw that I started her on is from a woman at a farmers market selling raw dog food. The food is from a local farmer. So the food is raw chicken, bones and all. Ground up into frozen cubes.

But I though it was a good place to start and it was very resonably priced.

So right now I am just figuring out how much to feed her ect ect. I calculated that about 3-4 ounces a day. That probably will change as I see how she does on it.


But the questions I have is what do you guys supliment with? Since the food does not have other stuff misxed in.

And

How do you guys fiqure out how much they need? do you go by weight, activity level? If they get chunky on the food??? I pretty much went by the guide that came with the food.

Thanks

When I did raw, I calculated the amount based on body weight and then added/subtracted based on how they were doing. 2-4% of their body weight was what I did.

I supplemented with salmon oil... but I was doing premade raw which already had other supplements in it.

 

[MyHorseMyRules]

Usually, for an adult dog, I will start with about 3% of the body weight. I find little dogs often need a little higher because they seem to have higher metabolisms. But I start with about 3% and see how they look, then I adjust accordingly. If they get chunky, feed a little less. If they get thin, feed a little more.

If you are going to be adding in another protein source soon, I would just supplement with fish oil. If not, I would add some kind of multivitamin like B-Natural's Daily Blend. Some people add in veggies. I don't feed veggies as a main part of their diet, but I do occasionally feed green tripe.

 

[JustaLilBitaLuck]

I would do a fish oil (for Omega 3s/Omega 6s) and a multivitamin for sure.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thanks guys

Another questions?

So you guys say I just really need to feed her the fish oil, which I have at home,

But some sites I have been searching say I need to feed her an egg once a week or raw blended veggies during the week as well, but they I read somewhere else if she is getting the raw than she needs none of that stuff.

Like I know I could get supliment stuff for my local feeds store, but do I really need that or is the Fish oil enough??

 

[Kat09Tails]

I learned awhile ago you start with 1 thing. Then add others slowly once you're sure you're not going to get a gastric blowout. Most people I know start with chicken backs, skin removed then add the skin back over a week or two. If it were me for now I'd try the chicken as is for a couple days along with a dob of yogurt or probios and see how it goes. Then add oil, then add organs, vege if you're going that route and get a couple weeks of good meals with good consistent poop . Then start trying other proteins.

My only supplements right now are fish oil and plain whole yogurt. IMO on a balanced raw diet it's all you really need to add.

3% seems to be the rule on amount to start with then adjust from there. If you find the stools are a little sloppy it's sometimes best to break up into mini meals to start.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thanks Kat. The only issue with the chicken is it is actually not whole raw chicken like the backs or necks, but ground up whole chicken cubed than frozen. I dont know if that changes anything or not.


But I heard with that because its ground Teagan might not get the nutrience she needs.

 

[Kat09Tails]

[/QUOTES]

To me eggs and vege are optional. They usually won't hurt anything but they do gum up the works when you're just getting started on this.

Too many eggs is bad. Biotin - avidin balance and all can cause skin issues. But an egg once a week isn't going to hurt anything. Cooked eggs daily aren't going to hurt anything at all.

Vege is all about what your school of thought is. I vege... but i'm a pretty indiscriminate vegger. They get what's left over from dinner and what I scrape out of my juicer. I don't make it a requirement and I know a ton of people who do prey model and non prey model and don't vege at all. I know a ton of people who swear by it. It's about whatever works for you imo.

Omega 3 from a protein source imo is the only requirement for a balanced raw diet because in general it's lacking in most meat based diets. The only reason I add probiotics is because it helps the speed of adjustment to new foods. I'm pretty sure I could throw a half rotted elephant carcass out there and I doubt I would have an issue.

 

[Kat09Tails]

Thanks Kat. The only issue with the chicken is it is actually not whole raw chicken like the backs or necks, but ground up whole chicken cubed than frozen. I dont know if that changes anything or not.


But I heard with that because its ground Teagan might not get the nutrience she needs.

The only issue with using whole chicken is that farmed chicken isn't what it used to be or naturally would be as far as bone/fat/muscle ratio. Do you know if they cleaned the bird out before they ground it?

The only benefit I'm aware of from not ground is the tooth cleaning portion. Ground has it's place especially with dogs who gulp.

 

[MyHorseMyRules]

As long as the organs have been left in the chicken, you should be fine with that to start with. But later, you need to add in different protein sources like beef and turkey. You get different nutrient levels from each protein source, and a varied diet will balance itself out. That's why I recommend a multivitamin if you're going to stick to chicken for a while.

I give the dogs raw eggs a couple times a week because it adds a nice shine to their coat. IIRC, you really don't need to worry about a biotin deficiency unless you are feeding egg whites by themselves.

But other than that (and fish oil, which is something I recommend everyone supplement with), I don't supplement unless there is a problem. If the dogs have gastric issues, I'll add in some yogurt for probiotics. Things like that.

There are people who think feeding ground is bad because of the oxygen exposure and whatnot during the grinding process. But really, it doesn't lose enough nutrients that you need to worry about it. But I would recommend the occasional raw meaty bones to keep his teeth clean.

 

[JustaLilBitaLuck]

Bravo has a really nice PDF on their website called Bravo Beginnings - it details everything you need to know about feeding a raw diet.

They say that you need to supplement with a fish oil, a vitamin/mineral supplement, a digestive enzyme, and a probiotic.

Here's the link: http://www.bravorawdiet.com/BravoBeginningsDogs.pdf

 

[Ivy]

Starting with chicken is great! But once Teagan's body gets used to digesting the new raw diet you will need to introduce other proteins one at a time (i.e. pork, beef, turkey, duck, venison, etc) You cannot give the dog all the required nutrients from just one protein source. Once she can handle various proteins you will need to introduce organs (i.e. liver, kidney, etc)
Remember to take your time because if you move too fat Teagan will end up with canon butt :yikes:

Make sure to give her boneless meals as too much bone will make her poop too dry and crumbly and too little bone will give her the squirts. Average ratio is 80-10-10 (protein-bone-organ).

Start off by giving Teagan 2-3% of her body weight. Adjust accordingly by eyeing her ribs and waist instead of using a scale.

 

[MyHorseMyRules]

Adjust accordingly by eyeing her ribs and waist instead of using a scale.

This. A lot of my customers will at first complain because their dog "isn't losing weight," but they fail to notice that the dog has actually slimmed down quite a bit until it's pointed out to them. Most dogs will put on more muscle and lose fat when they first get switched over, so the actual weight doesn't drop like some people expect it to.

 

[Saeleofu]

I do not feed raw yet, but will start at least Gavroche on it when I have freezer space. I plan on feeding prey model raw, with no supplements other than what he's currently getting (eatng kibble, occasional cans, eggs, yogurt, etc at the moment). For supplements he gets fish oil, a joint supplement, kelp and his thyroid meds.

I suppose if you can get your dog to eat raw fish you don't need to add fish oil. But Gavroche will not touch raw fish (see his pathetic sequence n the raw feeder picture thread lol)

 

[MyHorseMyRules]

I suppose if you can get your dog to eat raw fish you don't need to add fish oil. But Gavroche will not touch raw fish (see his pathetic sequence n the raw feeder picture thread lol)

Boone is not a fan of fish, but the girls LOVE it. I bought a case of whole mackerel, and they went insane!

 

[Pops2]

if you give them enough variety, you don't need to supplement.

 

[misfitz]

Sometimes it depends on the fish. Sienna loves salmon (and canned stinky sardines of course), and will eat trout if she's really hungry, but won't touch carp or catfish. My roommate thinks it's because the carp and catfish live on the bottom of the lake/river, in the mud, so they taste like mud. Sounds logical I guess! I was thinking maybe the salmon being a saltwater fish made a difference. Who knows!

Editing to add: While we're on the subject...I've been wondering how much variety is enough? If you can't feed enough variety, what supplements are needed?

Sorry if I'm thread-jacking! It seems related...

 

[HayleyMarie]

OK so another question??

So since I just have ground frozen chicken. Like 20 pounds of it. Would it be ok to buy some ground meat of a different kind. Like Beef or bison or turkey or lamb? and just change things up every few days of the different meat? Like three days out of the week give Teagan the other meat and the other four days give her the chicken. Like other Meat one day, chicken the other and then other meat the next day so on and so forth.

Also I did buy Teagan some raw meat bones that I probably will give her once a week on the weekends.

And another question. If the other meat has mixed in veggies would that cause an issue or does it not matter?

And say I caught a fish randomly would be ok to give Teagan the fish even though its not regulary in her diet?

And thanks guys you have been a great help

 

[Ivy]

OK so another question??

So since I just have ground frozen chicken. Like 20 pounds of it. Would it be ok to buy some ground meat of a different kind. Like Beef or bison or turkey or lamb? and just change things up every few days of the different meat? Like three days out of the week give Teagan the other meat and the other four days give her the chicken. Like other Meat one day, chicken the other and then other meat the next day so on and so forth.

Also I did buy Teagan some raw meat bones that I probably will give her once a week on the weekends.

And another question. If the other meat has mixed in veggies would that cause an issue or does it not matter?

And say I caught a fish randomly would be ok to give Teagan the fish even though its not regulary in her diet?


And thanks guys you have been a great help

Absolutley!! The more variety the better. Just remember to take things slow when introducing new proteins. Is the ground chicken whole bone-in chicken? Bones are very important for keeping the poop firm and the benefits of teeth cleaning when chewing on whole bones are amazing.

What kinds of bones are you talking about? Are you refering to softer edible bones like pork and chicken bones or weight bearing beef bones for a recreational chew?

Fresh caught fish should be frozen for a period of time before feeding to your dog. There are ones that should be avoided but I can't remember which ones (high mercury). I will have to get back to you on this one. But fish is a great addition for raw feeders. Fish is beneficial for the health of your dog, most recommended is mackerel, sardines, anchovies and herring.

 

[HayleyMarie]

Thanks again Ivy. I believe its pork bones. They range from all sized. I just bought a big bulk bag of it.

But I am not totally sure. They do end up eating the bones when I do give them to the dogs. So my guess is pork?

And yes the chicken is whole bone-in chicken.