if you're going to get that off-leash reliability - when there has to be more motivation than treats or praise.
Yes, absolutely definitely.... and there
are motivators which are more than treats and praise. There is a systematic process to getting this kind of reliability. After going through the first several stages of conditioning, (too long to type here and very important to the whole process) you get to the point where you convince your dog that
YOU control access to the things he likes; squirrels, other dogs, rabbit trails etc. Only by coming to you first, does he have the opportunity and reward of getting to chase the furry things. Direct access to the prey (and for practice..."prey") does NOT
work for the dog. It never works. It's all trained in controlled and simulated situations at first....exercises. He is never given the opportunity to be reinforced by running after animals before coming to you. It's done in small areas at first and built up. It is a sort of programming of his brain...it becomes habit because he really thinks that the only way to get what he wants is by coming to you first. It's all explained in Culture Clash. And I don't think it takes as long as it seems when I type it. But it would take some time to be sure.
As far as the Chows in Jean Donaldson's life, apparently, from what I have read, she has titled many dogs and she takes Chows from rescue shelters who are unadoptable and not only rehabilitates them healthwise, but does complete make-overs in behavior modification. I do not know more specifics than that. I know that she is a highly respected animal trainer/behaviorist.
I guess, if it were extremely important to me to have an explicitly well trained dog, and if Chows are that difficult, I wouldn't get a Chow. Some people don't care about extreme obedience and for some, it's quite important. I'm one of those who likes a pretty Johnny on the spot dog. So, I do tend to go for dogs like Dobermans, Labs, Shepherds, Chihuahuas and my son's mix who lives with me is quite "into" learning.
So, it's not that I don't acknowledge that some breeds are more difficult and I applaud you for doing what you do do with your Chows Melanie....really I do. I just think that had you been able to start out from puppyhood and gone through exactly the steps Jean talks about doing with all kinds of dogs, she might be able to run and play. I also admit that any dog, no matter how well trained is subject to a screw up now and then. They ARE animals, after all. And if the shock collar is not causing pain, fear or a bewilderment with a touch of trepidation, then fine. I concede. But I really can't see how they work unless they cause pain or fear..some kind of avoidance. And I just know that there are lots of creative things that can be done. I don't know all the things there are to do. I'm still learning. But I know that a lot of trainers of difficult dogs have a real, honest to goodness aresenal at their disposal. It's not all about treats and praise or a lot of the objections I hear here. And the things that you have said you've done are not all there is. So, even though you're a good trainer and experienced, there is more out there than meets the eye. LOL. And I'm on a mission to find out. Heh, heh, heh.
I am just not into causing my dog pain or unhappiness because I want more than one skill problem to be solved and I totally see how much more
smart and willing my dogs are since using positive methods. I firmly believe that the dog MUST enjoy every bit of training to make the most of it and the highest potential for bonding. Plus, my poor thing has liver disease and he may not live even close to a normal life span which isn't very long anyhow. And any dog might turn up with something awful or even die suddenly and I'd feel awful if I had just gotten through doing something yucky to my dog. That is not to say that I never say, "no" to my dogs. But anything more drastic is really hard for me. So, I use motivation and reward with a friendly little NRM and re-direct thrown in.
I guess if it were my dog, I'd find a fenced place, a ball park or dog park or tennis court and let 'er rip. Or get a super duper long line and use a chucket and tennis ball and have her retrieve over and over. Physiologically, lots of mental exercise really tires out a dog too.