OMG did anyone watch pedigree dogs exposed

Dekka

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#41
I am not for KC in general. But it is not up to them to let out of standard dogs show in conformation. What would be the point? Showing is for breeding dogs.

Now those pups could still go off to do agility, obedience, flyball, tracking, etc etc. The only thing they can't participate in is a show where they are to (theoretically) pick dogs who most match the standard for breeding purposes. You don't suggest they breed the ridgeless ridgebacks do you? That would be like saying we have to let dogs win in obedience if they won't listen, or that lame and blind dogs should be able to play agility.

There are many many breeds where crop outs happen and are not showable. A GOOD breeder will keep the pups for ever if need be. If not pet it out, even at a reduced price to a good home.

I will lay blame at the feet of KCs for many things, but not this.
 

luna_17

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#42
i agree with you completley i said that in the comment above. thanks for sharing it just enlightens people of what goes on doesnt it
 

luna_17

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#44
i know it is very disgusting and it isnt just happeing in that breed either next they will be culling a dogue de bordouxe because it havent got enough wrinkles, or maybe a japanese akita bceause their tail isnt curly enough
 

adojrts

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#46
I am not a fan of inbreding on any level and linebreeding should be done very carefully and with education etc. On the other hand you can't always outcross either............
Inbreding and heavy line breeding didn't work for Royal Families a few hundred years ago and it wont work for dogs, horses now etc.

I am curious and have a question for the OP, how much genetic testing do breeders do in the U.K now?
I know that even as little as 5 years ago, it wasn't common for breeders in the U.K to CERF test (eyes) or BAER (deafness), and therefore importing a dog from the U.K was a considerable risk as a prospective show/breeding dog. As it is common for breeders here in N.A to genetic test for the various issues that their breed may have.
I know that various countries in Europe have really started to crack down, even pulling papers on effected dogs and ensuring that they are removed from the breeding pool.
Now having said that, I am also aware of a breeder here in N.A that exported a stud dog to Europe (can't remember which country) to stand at stud, because it was well known here that he was producing a lot of eye problems.

The sad thing about breeding is we have to rely on other peoples ethic's for the well being of our dogs and for our success. Because all it takes is for one or couple of breeders to keep their mouths shut that have long lasting effects on a breed.
And it is for those reasons that I am not opposed to having breeders/dogs policed.
 

ACooper

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#47
Well a lot of what they are talking about is nothing new and often stated here on this board in regards to Kennel clubs ruining certain breeds just to have a certain "look"

I am not in the show world, nor the working or sport world..........but you don't have to be in any of those things to see the GSD is a bone of contention with many people, and that is just one breed in particular.

As to culling perfectly healthy puppies just because they don't have a certain "look" yes, I am against that. As with the RR, culling because of a missing ridge in an otherwise healthy pup is ludicrous in my book, I could never be a part of that.
 

mrose_s

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#48
One good point about this film, I'm getting to see some great pics of what dogs used to look like, omg Bassets were awesome, I'm not a fan of them today really, personally but the old style ones are gorgeous.
 

taratippy

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#49
lol@anti British. :rofl1:

I am anti BSL, as are many people on this site.

Skewering breeder ethics, in some blaring, sensationalistic way, when the gov't in that same country has shown a willingness to end the lives of dogs based on nothing but looks, or perceived heritage is hypocrisy.

That's my opinion. And it's actually...nothing to do with you, who I don't know whatsoever...it's to do with the program and the country it comes from.
You know you are so right it shouldnt be for anyone to question breeders ethics, however I was especially distressed that the CKCS who won the best in show event had the genetic problem and had been responsible for 26 litters after it was know. I can't see how that is doing anything to further the breed.

To me you see it doesnt matter what country this comes from you might agree with what the breeder above was doing regardless of the country and likewise regardless of the country (which you seem to have a huge problem with) I do have a **** problem with.

Its funny how you say that this country can put down dogs on looks but then uphold breeders on that programme that put down dogs that did not have ridge - now how is that not putting dogs down just on looks? Maybe you could just for once get over your prejudice and have a look at the programme?
 

Kayota

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#51
just as an example... Padfoot is a case where an essentially pure mutt ["randomly bred"] ended up with a genetic condition one of the parents carried. His father was purebred but was a malamute so I highly doubt he so much as carried the gene for entropion.
 

Lilavati

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#52
Its funny how you say that this country can put down dogs on looks but then uphold breeders on that programme that put down dogs that did not have ridge - now how is that not putting dogs down just on looks? Maybe you could just for once get over your prejudice and have a look at the programme?
Um, we have a problem with putting down ridgebacks without a ridge, just as much of one as putting down pit bulls for being pit bulls. You're putting your prejudices into our mouths. There are breeders who do that: we do not approve of them. Its not news to most of us here that it does happen. But that doesn't mean that all breeders, or even most breeders, engage in such unethical activities as breeding dogs with serious genetic flaws or killing dogs that don't meet the standard.

What you are missing is that we all have experience with programs like this, which may raise important issues, but only show the "bad" side of show breeding, and are used by animal rights activists in their attacks on purebred dogs and breeders. They are often PAID for by such activists. ITs not that it doesn't happen, but its not the norm, and that's how many programs portray it . . . and that is used as a reason to ban breeding.
 

Lilavati

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#53
just as an example... Padfoot is a case where an essentially pure mutt ["randomly bred"] ended up with a genetic condition one of the parents carried. His father was purebred but was a malamute so I highly doubt he so much as carried the gene for entropion.
I have no idea if that gene is dominant or recessive, so its hard to say whether being a mix is any protection or not. But theres no doubt that mixes DO get genetic disorders, and I didn't say otherwise. I'm talking odds, not certainities. I know several mutts with very serious genetic disorders, and I know lots of very healthy purebreds. There are just no guarantees. And by random bred, in the sense I meant it, I was meaning dogs of really scrambled heritage . . . as in, you have no idea where they came from.
 
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#54
What you are missing is that we all have experience with programs like this, which may raise important issues, but only show the "bad" side of show breeding, and are used by animal rights activists in their attacks on purebred dogs and breeders. They are often PAID for by such activists. ITs not that it doesn't happen, but its not the norm, and that's how many programs portray it . . . and that is used as a reason to ban breeding.
I don't think it was paid for by activists. Here's a article on the program:

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsande...wssummary/news_15-8-2008-12-22-2?newsid=42674
 

Beanie

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#55
Its funny how you say that this country can put down dogs on looks but then uphold breeders on that programme that put down dogs that did not have ridge - now how is that not putting dogs down just on looks? Maybe you could just for once get over your prejudice and have a look at the programme?
I believe you misunderstand... You think that when culling is talked about, it means "kill." That may be what was shown in the videos but it is not what we (apologies for speaking for others but I'm pretty sure this is general concensus) are talking about.

For example, my dog has been culled from his breeder's breeding program - because he has been neutered.

That's the kind of culling we approve of when it comes to a dog being out of standard - removing a dog from your breeding program through spay/neuter. NOT killing.
There was a thread on here not that long ago that talked about culling in terms of having pups PTS for behavioural problems, and I believe health issues may have also been discussed, but that is not exactly what we are talking about here.


It would be quite nice if you'd stop throwing the claim of prejudice around.
 

Romy

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#56
Pedigree animals make up 75% of the seven million dogs in the UK and cost their owners over £10m in vets' fees each week. its remarkable to think that their are soo many pedigrees out their with magnificant lines but the cross breeds are better off health wise.
That monetary number can be really tricky, and misrepresenting the real facts about health.

If you think about it, mongrel dogs are more readily available to low income people than purebred dogs. A lot of the difference may simply be because more purebred dog owners are able to afford medical care for their animals, since they were able to afford the purchase of the dog in the first place.

My own experience with dogs has been that mixes were about the same or less healthy than purebreds. I have personally known 4 dogs who have died of cancer. They were:

beagle/basset mix
lab/? mix
malamute/wolf mix
lab/golden mix

Then there was Seamus the staghound (mix). At 10 months old he had hip dysplasia so bad he could hardly walk, and severe allergies.

My aunt has a 12 1/2 year old german shepherd. Purebred, registered. Both parents are Sch3. She has perfect hips. Perfect elbows. Healthy heart. No arthritis or stiffness. No cancer. Her eyesight is great.

The problem with mixes is that many descend from puppymill dogs. None of the parents were OFA'd. None were screened. In many cases they have visible genetic health problems, and the mill still breeds them because dog A + dog B = $$$. These are the dogs that then go out into the world and breed to each other willy nilly. It doesn't matter if puppymill rottweiler mates with puppymill german shepherd. If both parents have hip dysplasia, the puppies will have it too even though they are mixed breed.

Then there are the well bred dogs from good breeders who do genetic health tests/x-rays/screenings before breeding sell puppies who should not be bred on spay/neuter contracts and are willing to take back any dog they produce any time, so that none of their dogs are adding to pet overpopulation or filling up shelters if they are unwanted by their owners. These are the great people who are improving the health of dogs everywhere by actually looking at the genetics and health of purebred dogs and making responsible breeding decisions. If the purebreds are healthy then the resulting mutts will be healthy as well. My aunt's German shepherd is the perfect example of the kind of good healthy dog that is produced by a responsible breeding program.

My own personal feelings about mutts vs. purebreds is kind of mixed. I love all dogs, mutts or purebred. I like that with purebreds, you have a pretty good idea of what your puppy will grow up like. It's general temperament, activity level, size, etc. These kinds of traits are very important for many people to know beforehand. Most people who give up their dogs have reasons like "He has too much energy!" or "He grew way too big and knocks my children down!". Mutts are kind of a crapshoot, but I love them and there are some wonderful surprises in the "custom blended" dog world. I don't think mutts should be bred on purpose though, unless it's to fill a specific purpose that a purebred is unable to do. Catchdogs are a good example. They are cross between a sighthound and some type of bulldog, and used to catch and hold a boar while pig hunting so that the other hounds and hunter can get it.

The search and rescue group that I sometimes work out with has only purebreds at this point in time. Mutts have been tried in the past, but something always comes up. Their temperament turns out to be completely unsuitable (aggressive, too shy, severely dog reactive, etc), or they develop early health problems that make training for 2+ years a complete waste of time and money. With a responsibly bred purebred puppy the handler has a reasonable expectation of what kind of potential their dog has, they know the health history of the dog's ancestors, they know what kind of physical characteristics the dog will have when it's grown, etc. When you are investing thousands of dollars into training, it really, really pays to know what you are starting with. The same thing goes for service dogs.

Those guys you are talking about who are knowingly breeding sick dogs is just....it's beyond words. Disgusting comes to mind. Totally irresponsible. Not what represents a good breeder at all. :mad: In my opinion, health and temperament are to be considered before anything else when planning a breeding.
 

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