How Many Dogs is Too Many to Own??

[AllieMackie]

I never saw anybody react like this when Fluffyzoocrew was around. She had 15 dogs and other animals. But I never seen anybody question her. *shrug*

Yes they did. And she answered the questions thoroughly and truthfully. We've also seen pics of her SPOTLESS house, all of her dogs playing and romping together in her large backyard, and she was never afraid to share details about her dogs.

I think the biggest difference is that instead of answering questions honestly and simply, Punky is getting very defensive and angry for being attacked. Frankly, that's what put my guard up. Punky has a LOT of animals, that much is abundantly clear; much more than average. Does she expect to not be questioned about it?

I still don't like that's she's breaking so many laws. But hey, for the good of the animals. That's what matters, right? No matter what.

 

[iwantmypup]

Honestly I've been trying to sit out of this and I usually do, but I have to say I think the way people are singling out punky is ridiculous. Its gone beyond disagreeing to hounding her about every little thing. I know that won't make me popular but that's how I feel.

Would I ever want that many dogs? Heck no! But they're not my dogs. A lot of people here and other places do things with their dogs I don't agree with. And what about breeders? Especially in working types of dogs there are breeders that have as many or more dogs than punky. Is this wrong too? I have seen some of these same people defending breeders who have this many dogs and kennel them or have their dogs live in dog yards on chains. Ridiculous.

So she doesn't keep her dogs the same way you would. Okay, whatever. I have seen no indication that they're abused in any of her pictures.

My family is also over the city limit for dogs. Oops, I guess? No one cares here either as long as they're not nuisances. I don't see what that matters to random internet people.

Once again, unpopular probably but dang this thread is ticking me off, lol!

totally going to agree. :hail:

 

[Fran101]

I never saw anybody react like this when Fluffyzoocrew was around. She had 15 dogs and other animals. But I never seen anybody question her. *shrug*

I agree with Allie. Fluffy NEVER reacted that way when people asked questions about her number of dogs,she knew she had a lot and she knew people were curious and would ask questions. She answered truthfully, politely and she had tons of pictures of her healthy happy dogs. she also took EACH dog individually to a nearby park for some quality time. She also lived in an area where it was LEGAL. AND instead of throwing around claims like "you can ask ANYBODY in rescue about my home", she just showed us herself. Her home was spotless, more so than most people with 1 or 2 pets. She went through the SAME thing that punky is going through now, but isnt of reacting defensively, she reacted with politeness and grace, she understood that she had A LOT of dogs and people would be curious.

She also had less animals She had dogs which she rescued from neglect, bad homes, strays etc... .and I think she also had a fish and a turtle.

Having that many animals CAN be done the right way.. but its very rare. and fluffy was one of those rare individuals that did it.
She was rescueing animals in need, they got GREAT care, vet care, outside time, socialization, exercise, love, clean living environment and she was HAPPY to show proof of that to anybody who doubted it.

I dont have much to say about w/e else has been going on in this thread. but just wanted to pop in and say, Fluffy went through the SAME thing and was HAPPY to prove w/o a doubt that her dogs were receiving EXCELLENT care.

 

[Doberluv]

I think the biggest difference is that instead of answering questions honestly and simply, Punky is getting very defensive and angry for being attacked. Frankly, that's what put my guard up. Punky has a LOT of animals, that much is abundantly clear; much more than average. Does she expect to not be questioned about it?

Why does everyone think they're even entitled to meddle in her business and interrogate her..... UNLESS....there's evidence that there was some kind of abuse or neglect? That has not been demonstrated as far as I can see.

 

[TheGoldenRetriever]

Why does everyone think they're even entitled to meddle in her business and interrogate her..... UNLESS....there's evidence that there was some kind of abuse or neglect? That has not been demonstrated as far as I can see.

^^^ This. :hail:

PG has in the past talked openly about her animals, collectively and individually, and has in the past posted pictures. They always appeared healthy and well-cared for. She certainly has far, far more than *I* would ever own or even want at any one time. But I don't feel that fact alone gives me (or anyone else) the right to start firing a bunch of questions and demanding answers when I have not seen any evidence of abuse or neglect ... and I have not.

If she lived in my neighborhood and there was evidence of neglect/abuse or a public nuisance caused by the number of animals then I would question it. But not in the venue of an internet forum, when I have NO direct evidence of any such thing. To continually question, demand answers, and form judgments in those instances is working purely on assumption, not on certainty.

It may be true that Fluffyzoocrew was asked many of the same questions ... but were they in the same tone, and with so many joining in, seemingly just for the sake of doing so? It's also possible Fluffy was more mature ("mature" as in "older") than PG and so perhaps better able to handle all the questions and less apt to feel attacked and get defensive. PG's reaction alone does not provide "proof" that anyone is correct in their accusations/assumptions/judgments; and there is a line between "questions of caring concern" and "interrogation complete with accusations".

Also note that Fluffy is no longer posting here anymore. So as graciously as she handled being questioned, it's also possible that she decided to leave because of continually being questioned/interrogated/judged ... regardless of how graciously she handled it at the time.

 

[Criosphynx]

I never saw anybody react like this when Fluffyzoocrew was around. She had 15 dogs and other animals. But I never seen anybody question her. *shrug*

by the time she got here, to this forum, the questioning had already occurred by others , so I had already formed an opinion.

 

[babymomma]

ahh, I see. Very well then..
If the only way somebody would stop bashing me and would accept me was if I showed them pictures of my home. Can't say i'd want to stick around *shrug* .. Cant say I would post reply's filled with rainbows and lollipops ether. I For one WOULD get super defensive. As im sure the majority of humans would.

 

[Juicy]

I agree with Allie. Fluffy NEVER reacted that way when people asked questions about her number of dogs,she knew she had a lot and she knew people were curious and would ask questions. She answered truthfully, politely and she had tons of pictures of her healthy happy dogs. she also took EACH dog individually to a nearby park for some quality time. She also lived in an area where it was LEGAL. AND instead of throwing around claims like "you can ask ANYBODY in rescue about my home", she just showed us herself. Her home was spotless, more so than most people with 1 or 2 pets. She went through the SAME thing that punky is going through now, but isnt of reacting defensively, she reacted with politeness and grace, she understood that she had A LOT of dogs and people would be curious.

She also had less animals She had dogs which she rescued from neglect, bad homes, strays etc... .and I think she also had a fish and a turtle.

Having that many animals CAN be done the right way.. but its very rare. and fluffy was one of those rare individuals that did it.
She was rescueing animals in need, they got GREAT care, vet care, outside time, socialization, exercise, love, clean living environment and she was HAPPY to show proof of that to anybody who doubted it.

I dont have much to say about w/e else has been going on in this thread. but just wanted to pop in and say, Fluffy went through the SAME thing and was HAPPY to prove w/o a doubt that her dogs were receiving EXCELLENT care.

^That, you beat me to it !

Plus her siggie was always 11 dogs and like 23 cats (give or take new additions/losses/fosters), now its only four dogs and two cats. Last time it was just only one-two dogs were her mothers, now its almost half the dogs she claimed once were hers. To me I always knew her heart was in the right place, and I never had a problem with the amount of animals she had. But to all of a sudden I don't know, just disclaim it, it strikes me as odd.

And FZC's place is fit to own how many animals as she please and there is no limit to how many she can own. There's a reason such places like cities have these laws. Just like it would be crappy to have some many occupants in a studio/apartment, its the same with animals in certain types of households, especially in the city. They need their space too. I mean yeah its better than in a shelter, but still I hope Punky moves out to a bigger place to better accommodate her animals needs.

 

[Romy]

Having that many animals CAN be done the right way.. but its very rare. and fluffy was one of those rare individuals that did it.

I don't think that it's rare. It think it's MUCH more common for households of many animals to be well cared for than it is for them to be neglected. The ones that are well cared for aren't bothered by AC and consequently never make it on the news. So unless you know someone personally, like Fluffy, you never hear about people who do it right.

I think it's significant to consider that in our recent past, it was normal for people to keep dozens of cattle, sheep, goats, horses, fish, dogs, cats, birds, etc. and have them all be well cared for. Granted, that was usually when an adult member of the family was home all the time to care for them and the rest of the family, I but don't think it's rare today for it to work.

Personally, I plan to have maybe 6-7 large hounds when we buy a place. Sight hounds are pretty dang easy to live with, when we buy a house ideally I will be a home maker. Then I will have my poultry, some hoofed stock, and a few other house pets. Robert wants a flying squirrel again and I'd really like to build a tegu colony and a rescue tortoise colony.

 

[Criosphynx]

If I may make a suggestion, if nothing else you have GOT to get the ferrets out of state or at least out of your home...AC may not care about your dogs and cats but FISH AND WILDLIFE will for sure care about the ferrets.

From my understanding, having to many dogs/cats, often AC will give you a chance and time to relocate them, or even look away. My other understanding tho is that if you have ILLEGAL pets as in gerbils, ferrets, hedgehogs etc every animal in your home will be confiscated.

this is just what I have *heard*. I do know of people being busted with illegal reptiles that lost everyone, including fido and whiskers.

Just som'thing to think about. I had rescue ferrets at one point but decided these two ferrets were not worth the risk and rehomed them Ferrets are EASY to rehome in CA since there is a huge demand for them. Also if you are waiting on them being legalized, don't hold your breath, it wont happen. The poultry farmers have to much say over it.

 

[sillysally]

ahh, I see. Very well then..
If the only way somebody would stop bashing me and would accept me was if I showed them pictures of my home. Can't say i'd want to stick around *shrug* .. Cant say I would post reply's filled with rainbows and lollipops ether. I For one WOULD get super defensive. As im sure the majority of humans would.

Exactly. Not sure why some people are just certain that it's their business what her house looks like....I think her response has been much more polite than most peoples' would have been.

 

[AllieMackie]

ahh, I see. Very well then..
If the only way somebody would stop bashing me and would accept me was if I showed them pictures of my home. Can't say i'd want to stick around *shrug* .. Cant say I would post reply's filled with rainbows and lollipops ether. I For one WOULD get super defensive. As im sure the majority of humans would.

You said that Fluffy never got asked questions. I simply replied that yes, she did, and how she reacted.

Was she offended sometimes? Sure. I remember a few times she got reamed for some of her dogs having longish nails, for one. But, the pics were taken right before nail trimming day (every two weeks, she said). Sure enough, in most pics the nails are just fine.

Photos aren't required, no, and we're all left to assume that Punky is taking good care of all 20-some pets. I'm just saying that it's easier to believe pets are well-cared for when you see the evidence of it.

Not to mention FZC is in a rural area and not breaking laws with her pet ownership. But I'm done talking for her for now, she's not here and it's unfair to blab about her and her dogs where she doesn't even read anymore.

 

[CharlieDog]

I was going to say also that FZC was living in an area where there was no limit, and she was not in danger of having her animals seized and PTS if the neighbors got pissed off.

Also, I think that FZC was also around the same age as Punky. I know she wasn't even middle aged yet, and she handled the SAME type of questioning gracefully.

 

[Doberluv]

Also, I think that FZC was also around the same age as Punky. I know she wasn't even middle aged yet, and she handled the SAME type of questioning gracefully.

Well, I wouldn't handle them at all and I'm old as dirt compared to these girls. Why should anyone "handle" these interrogations at all, gracefully or otherwise? What makes them obligated TO answer these questions? It's not an issue that affects anyone here. The only time it should concern people, is if someone or some animal is being harmed. And there is no indication of that. It's quite astounding and curious.... this mob behavior...this ganging up on one person when they've done nothing wrong...nothing that can be proven.


I knew someone who had a lot of dogs. I don't remember how many exactly, but a lot, quite possibly as many as PG, give or take a few. And they were all well cared for, the place was clean enough...sanitary. They were loved and exercised, socialized etc. She was a world renown GSD breeder from Holland. She had a big family and everyone was always working around there whenever I visited. This was years ago. I got a GSD from her. There were a few other dogs there too, not just GSDs. She had some little ones running around inside too. There was always someone holding a puppy in the kitchen, I remember. They took turns to make sure all puppies got plenty of socializing and handling. She did have outdoor kennels for many of the dogs, but there was always someone doing something with them it seemed. There were a lot of acres there and the runs were not chain link, but wood posts with square wire stuff for fencing and fresh, clean wood shavings for the ground and dog houses. The pens were huge, more like a corral that you'd use for horses. The dogs seemed happy, robust and friendly.

So, like it was said in the earlier pages of this thread, there is no cut and dry answer to how many dogs is too many. It depends on how they're cared for and so forth. And who has proof of mistreatment or neglect? If there isn't any, then what is the point of all this? You can speculate till the cows come home, but why not leave the poor girl alone?

 

[Jules]

I do agree with you on a level, Carrie, actually I agree with every point you made.

What I just cannot even fathom is that she is give or take 25 pets over the limit. Other members are over their limit by 1 or two, fine, I get that.... but so many? And then to add ferrets to the mix who are not even allowed as pets in the state she is in? THAT I cannot understand.

If you are willing to put it all at risk like that- then you should at least be smart enough to truly cover your tracks and NOT leave information on the internet that can have you identified in 5 minutes, like your phone number on a dog tag.

 

[Doberluv]

Well, that is scary indeed. Why are ferrets disallowed anyway? Are they considered a wild animal? I thought they were pets. You'd think a neighbor would have noticed and reported her by now if they're uncared for or a nuissance to the neighbors.

 

[Jules]

Ugh, I don't know. Even though laws suck, I would never harbor an animal I am not allowed to keep. Wouldn't you want the best for your pets and look like a responsible owner? And this is nothing personal, I would jump on anyone who is trying to hide a "pit bull" in a town with BSL, for example, just as much (probably even more).

 

[Doberluv]

Well, when you have something going on in your town, where you can see with your own two eyes, that something is harmful, that's different, I think. We don't really know anything with this. I don't know.... Somehow I can't let myself get too wrapped up in this tread. It's just a little ambiguous for me being through the Internet...not concrete enough for me.

 

[sillysally]

Honestly, I can't see myself having an illegal animal at all, but aren't ferrets different from dogs just in how you keep them? A dog would have to go outside, etc, whereas ferrets could just stay in the house all the time? Although then what would you do for vet care? I'm guessing you'd either have to go across state lines or find a vet you could sneak it into....

Ack--I'm way too paranoid for that. I won't drive anywhere near the city limits of places with BSL when Sally is in the car....

 

[sammgirl]

Well, I wouldn't handle them at all and I'm old as dirt compared to these girls. Why should anyone "handle" these interrogations at all, gracefully or otherwise? What makes them obligated TO answer these questions? It's not an issue that affects anyone here. The only time it should concern people, is if someone or some animal is being harmed. And there is no indication of that. It's quite astounding and curious.... this mob behavior...this ganging up on one person when they've done nothing wrong...nothing that can be proven.


I knew someone who had a lot of dogs. I don't remember how many exactly, but a lot, quite possibly as many as PG, give or take a few. And they were all well cared for, the place was clean enough...sanitary. They were loved and exercised, socialized etc. She was a world renown GSD breeder from Holland. She had a big family and everyone was always working around there whenever I visited. This was years ago. I got a GSD from her. There were a few other dogs there too, not just GSDs. She had some little ones running around inside too. There was always someone holding a puppy in the kitchen, I remember. They took turns to make sure all puppies got plenty of socializing and handling. She did have outdoor kennels for many of the dogs, but there was always someone doing something with them it seemed. There were a lot of acres there and the runs were not chain link, but wood posts with square wire stuff for fencing and fresh, clean wood shavings for the ground and dog houses. The pens were huge, more like a corral that you'd use for horses. The dogs seemed happy, robust and friendly.

So, like it was said in the earlier pages of this thread, there is no cut and dry answer to how many dogs is too many. It depends on how they're cared for and so forth. And who has proof of mistreatment or neglect? If there isn't any, then what is the point of all this? You can speculate till the cows come home, but why not leave the poor girl alone?

Harper's breeder is in holland, and i know she has at least 12 dogs. but she runs a tight ship and things are very well kept.