Hello, need help choosing a dog

[ripsnorter]

Hello,

I'm not sure if I should put this in the Dog Breed forum, or here. If the mods feel it should be moved, I apologize.

Anyhoo, I need help deciding on a dog. First, my situation, as obviously that is very important in choosing a dog:

I am a 30 year old guy, I live alone in Western Washington state. (rains a lot, not too hot in the summer, not too cold in the winter) I live on 10 acres out of town limits at the end of a 1 mile long private road. (so the chances of the dog getting hit by a car are fairly small) I live on the river as well, so water is nearby.

I have had dogs all my life, and had my Black Lab from a pup when I was 16. I trained him myself, so I do have some experience with training and am not afraid of it. I know some traits can be trained out, but others are just about impossible in some breeds. I run my own business, so I am not gone from 8-5, but I do live by myself and do need to work in my shop alone, plus I do need to make occasional trips into town that require me being gone most of the day.

I loved my Lab dearly, but my biggest problems with him were that he strayed constantly and the neighbors were always threatening to shoot him. When I left to go into town I put him in a 20' x 50' kennel, but he would howl for the entire day while I was gone, which brought more complaints from the neighbors.

I want to get a dog from a pup and train him myself. I plan on getting other dogs later, but I feel it's better to raise and train the first dog by itself, then bring other dogs in that can learn from the first, instead of picking up bad habits and trying to correct them all at once.

I want a large, outdoor dog. A kennel, (20 feet by 50 feet again probably) plus a doghouse with probably a heatlamp in the winter. Plus my shop to sleep in. I do want it to be able to run around the acreage fairly freely in the day without worrying constantly that it's going to roam too far and get shot by the neighbors. A guard dog that will bark once is also important.

I'd love to get a lab again, (my neighbors have pups right now) but I just couldn't break the last one of roaming and howling. I've thought of English Mastiffs, as there are some in the paper right now, but not sure what I should choose. Another choice is a Rottweiler.

So, to be more concise:

Large outdoor dog as companion/guard dog for 30-something guy
10 Acres to play on, plus shop and 20'x50' kennel at night
Doesn't roam or stray
Doesn't howl or cry when alone
Warning bark
Able to be left at home alone for 8 hours or so once a week.

Can I get some advice? I am giving this a lot of thought to make sure that my future pup has a happy home that he can play on without having to be kenneled 24/7.

I appreciate any help and opinions.

Rip.

 

[yoko]

Large outdoor dog as companion/guard dog for 30-something guy
10 Acres to play on, plus shop and 20'x50' kennel at night
Doesn't roam or stray
Doesn't howl or cry when alone
Warning bark
Able to be left at home alone for 8 hours or so once a week.

really out of all of those we could probably give you advice on ones known for giving warning barks. almost any dog if given the chance *no matter the breed* will roam/stray if not contained especially if not in the house with you ever. you may want to rethink your situation or how you want to keep a dog before getting a dog.

i live out in the country and dogs who roam get shot, plain and simple. if they aren't shot they're hit by a car *yes i know you said it is a ways off but if the dog is a free roamer you have no control on where they roam* or other animals *wild or other loose dogs* eventually get them. :/ this just doesn't sound like a very ideal home right now especially since you already have people who have said 'your dog roams to my property it will be shot'.

 

[ripsnorter]

Your reply is why I've waited to get a dog at all actually.

I'll explain my normal day to day situation when I had my Lab better:

Dog slept outside in his doghouse, woke up around 8am, let him out, played with him for about 15 to 30 minutes, fed him, talked to him, maybe some training exercises etc.

Went back inside, ate. Possibly let him inside on the rug only while I ate, did emails etc.

Back outside to my shop. Leave the big door open, or bring him inside while I worked. Played with him off and on all through the workday, even if only a pat on the head and tossed stick while between workstations. Usually he would go to his bed in the shop after a while, occasionally wander off to investigate a rabbit or mole for a bit.

End of the day: play with him, work on training, maybe even wrestle with him and compliment him on beating me for once, then inside for dinner. Again, sometimes allowed inside on the rug while I did my evening things.

Probably a little more play before bedtime, then put in his kennel, watered, etc.

 

[Renee750il]

It's really difficult for most of us to wrap our heads around that limited a time spent with our dogs, since most of us have our dogs inside the house with us when we're home, and no, we don't all have small dogs, lol. I have a GSD/wolf rescue, an APBT and a Fila Brasiliero -- all inside. And I'm not the worst of the bunch by far

Some dogs DO prefer to spend most of their time outdoors, but I truly wouldn't suggest letting one roam while you aren't right there. Not in the kind of world we live in now. People do rotten things to dogs.

 

[ripsnorter]

I wouldn't say the time is limited with the dog. More like a farm dog. He's pretty much with me 2/3s or more of the day, (more than people that have a day job) and I spend several dedicated hours per day training and playing with him, aside from just normal companionship.

I was raised on a farm and the idea of a dog or cat living inside the home is very alien to me.

 

[Renee750il]

I've known people -- especially here in the south -- that it's alien to, but I can't even sleep at night until Kharma's (the Fila) stretched out next to me and Tallulah (the APBT) is curled up next to my shoulder (okay, well part of that is if she's there I don't have to wonder what kind of trouble she's getting into, lol). Bimmer (the GSD) has always insisted on sleeping in the doorway, but he comes and tells me good night and sometimes even lays on the bed until I go to sleep.

There's a closeness and a bond between the four of us like no other, and I don't have to pay any attention to strange noises late at night!

 

[yoko]

oh ok i didn't mean to sound rude so i hope it didn't come off like that.

i didn't know the dog would spend that much time with you. a labs are great dogs and just because your other dog did that not all will. if you like labs i'd go with them.. all the ones i have met have always given warning barks when people show up and they loved hiking and water.

i was raised without any dog or cats in the house but i decided that as soon as i was old enough and out of the house i would get an inside dog. yes there was a bit of adjustment period but i LOVE it. i don't think i could go back to having a dog outside. if you have the means i'd atleast try it.

most of my friends who have free roam dogs are all medium to large dogs but they are mutts. my favorite are great dane/lab mixes

but a side note my friends dog *she owns the free roam dogs but this dog was an inside dog* was killed by coyotes. so you always have to be careful. none of the dogs stay on their property 100% of the time. but their neighbors are ok with it.

really try an inside dog it is a really rewarding experience

 

[Romy]

I live in western wa, and honestly I wouldn't keep a single dog outdoors at night, or even the evenings for that matter. A pack of coyotes will kill even the largest dogs, they work together to bring down large prey and a lone large dog will be very vulnerable. Especially if he is free roaming. That's not even thinking of predators like cougar, which are very plentiful around here.

ETA: Definitely look into having him as an indoor/outdoor dog. My husband grew up with all outdoor dogs, and after some convincing tried having them in with the family. He says he's never going back. Even Charlie, our pointer who LOVES being outside comes in when we do. As much energy as he has, he's totally happy to chill out and watch TV with us in the house.

 

[Renee750il]

True, Romy. There's no place that's immune to coyotes, either. I was talking to a trucker who said he'd seen them -- repeatedly -- roaming in NYC.

 

[ripsnorter]

Thanks for the replies, I was starting to feel a little concerned

Where I live is fairly farm-ish. At night I usually kept my dog locked in the shop, (80x40) with an adjoining kennel. I'm not too worried about cougars or coyotes that way, as the only time he was running around carefree was during the day. The times he would roam were usually when he dug himself out, or when he would sneak off during the day. He usually wasn't left unattended, but a dog that wants to roam usually will find a way and I'd like to curb that as much as possible.

I actually did used to let my pup lay on the bed (on his special blanket) and watch movies with me, but he was very much an outdoor dog.

I'd love to get a lab again, that's my ideal really, but I'd also like to try another breed as I'm excited about the differences I would get to enjoy between breeds. I realize every dog is different just like people, but theres also tendencies between breeds as well... Siberian Huskies have a reputation for climbing fences and being easily bored, whereas a little Shih-tzu has more of a tendency to stay around it's master. (I'm guessing on the Shih-tzu, I've never had a small dog) So I'd like to find the rough characteristics in the right breed for me before I settle on one.

 

[Pops2]

a cur dog would be good if you were willing to take up hunting or working stock once or twice a week. they are smarter than most labs and can be taught where they can & can't go. they will do more than just warn of uninvited guests leopard dogs & blackmouths have a stranger unfriendly attitude similar to Renee's fila. but hey have a strong desire to please and learn quickly. but they need a job, a real job. w/o a job they will get bored and get into trouble. most retreivers should be better than the last one you described. they shouldn't be noisy dogs. sighthounds are quiet & lazy until something needs doing but are slow learners by lab standards. and the need to hunt will drive them to wander if not watched. terriers, scenthounds & upland birddogs are the worst choices for you IMO. a good bulldog would be similar to the sighthound in the quiet & lazy, unfortunately good bulldogs are hard to find now. you might want to look into a bulldog like a johnson, alapaha or olde. scott & painter types would be more like a cur or collie and need a job to really be good.

 

[Romy]

The shih-tzus I have met were really good about not wandering far, but then that is a breed that should probably be kept indoors at night.

You may end up with a lab that doesn't wander, I've known labs that like to run far afield and labs that were total homebodies.

A husky or any hunting breed like a hound will probably wander in search of game and get into trouble. Whether it's running into a pack of coyotes with no backup, or getting into the neighbors livestock, it's not a good thing.

You might do well with a herding breed, like a german shepherd or one of the collies. They tend to want to stick around home, but those dogs are also the type that like to be with you at night instead of lonely in a kennel.

I guess I can't wrap my head around living alone, but having a dog, and then not wanting to stay in the same room as the dog at night, lol.

 

[ripsnorter]

Thanks! that's the type of info I'm looking for. I'm looking for general breed information so I can have rough idea of their tendencies and likes, I wouldn't want to get a little Shih-tzu as a rough outdoorsy wetland sheep dog for an extreme example.

 

[ripsnorter]

Also keep in mind that after I train my pup and get him well adjusted to life with me, (and me with him) I plan on getting at least one or two more, probably rescue dogs. So he won't be alone out there all the time at night.

I know what you mean Romy about hard to wrap your head around... It's equally hard for me to wrap mine around an indoor dog lol. Most farmers around here would try and commit me at the idea of having a dog inside. I think it's just two different worlds. I loved my dog dearly, we even had our own song, (yeah, I know.) but he had his bed and I had mine. Although, everything else was his.

His truck, his car, his shop, his second bed, his third bed, his second truck, his spare truck, his tractor, his house, (I was just allowed to sleep in it and pay the bills for it ) He would be shocked at the thought of his truck leaving without him in the back of it. I think he thought the title was even in his name.

 

[mrose_s]

AS others have said, wandering can depend as much on the individual as the breed.
My boy is a kelpie mix (probably some Border Collie, Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog etc in there aswell) and he really isn't a wanderer. We only have a 2 foot front fence and an constantly open side gate and he has no interest in going out alone. He seems to know what the fenceline is and only just pokes his head out the open gate to see whats going on.
He was an outdoor dog for the first couple of years of his life (my parents rule) but after having him as an indoor dog I wouldn't have it any other way. Its been a huge adjustment because since moving into my dads he's not allowed on the bed and sleeps in a crate beside the bed. Doesn't bother him but I have a hard time sleeping sometimes without him there. I never feel completley safe unless he's with me.

I tether him out in the yard to feed him or sometimes jsut to give him a chance to laze around in the sun and 90% of the time I walk out 20 minutes later to find him sitting on the verandah right outside the door waiting to come back in. lol

I don't have any issues with people that have outdoor dogs though, I don't think their any worse off so long as the owner is commited to them. But I just love having my animals right by my side at all times.

You probably want something pretty people orientated so it likes to hang around but not so much so that its overly dependant on you. I was thinking maybe a herding breed like an Aus Shepherd, GSD, perhaps collie?

 

[ripsnorter]

Pops2, I don't really have a way of working a dog as far as cattle etc, so I guess that rules those breeds out. I would like to get some cattle again, but it's not in the too-near-future plans.

I went and talked to the people with the lab pups earlier. They're still too young to take, and were sleeping so I didn't really look them over. It will be a few weeks yet. I asked them about roaming problems with the parents, the lady said that the mother used to wander all the time, but now that she has a companion dog she stays fairly close, although she does wander down the end of the driveway past some houses sometimes.

Any thoughts on wandering being inherited from the parents? I would love a Lab again but I want to be careful. Any thoughts on how I can pick one? I'm not sure what one would look for in a pup that would show those tendencies.

 

[Boemy]

I don't think a puppy would be a good choice for you. There's no telling if a puppy will grow up to be a homebody or a wanderer.

I can't think of any breeds that would really fit your criteria. Sighthounds and hounds were bred to chase after game . . . The sighthound rescue groups I've run across emphasize to never let them off leash in an unfenced environment. Collies and german shepherds don't have such strong chasing instincts, but I know plenty of people with shepherds who would run away if they got out of their fence.

It's expecting a lot for a dog to be able to understand what human boundaries mean, like fences it's perfectly capable of crossing without a second thought. I think any dog you get will end up shot by the neighbors long before it can be trained in the art of staying at home. Or eaten by coyotes. (They are out during the day as well as at night.)

If you just want a watchdog I would recommend, in all seriousness, a flock of geese. They are big, strong birds, NOT to be trifled with and, from what I've read, will be able to differeniate you from strangers and react accordingly.

 

[Laurelin]

Why not build a fence for part of the yard or a dog run even? Roaming dogs in most places will get shot so it's really not safe to have an outdoor dog that isn't contained properly.

 

[noodlerubyallie]

Wandering doesn't have to be breed specific. I would think that any dog that is bored would wander, trying to find something to do to keep itself entertained. Think of it as "the grass is always greener on the other side."

I don't know. I'm in the "dogs should be inside" group. If a dog does live outside, it should have a sturdy fence that prevents jumping and is covered at the base to prevent digging out. Also, the dog should get regular exercise - mental and physical, and get a lot of people interaction. Good shelter, as well.

 

[Dekka]

Some great advice so far.. but I would like to add.. I can't think of any rescue groups will adopt to someone who is going to then have that dog as an outdoor dog.

Why not go to some shelter and save a life? You could pick an older dog, one that you would be a little less likely to roam.