getadamnjobyouhippie.org

Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
2,434
Likes
1
Points
0
Location
Oregon
#21
I have to third Lil, I have a technical degree, but unless you know someone, or have 5 years experience counting trees in a forest, or expertise in growing silicon crystals, you're out of luck. There are very few universities that even have programs where they grow silicon, and any experience would be not from the degree, but being a lab rat for minimum wage.

Its hard to get called back for cashiering without 5 years of prior experience at this point. :p
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#22
who says there is no future at starbucks or McDonalds? My uncle (God rest his soul) got his first job ever at McDonalds. Worked his BUTT off even though it was minimum wage. he never left McDonalds. ended up working there all his life. Worked his way up slowly. shift supervisor, supervisor, store manager, district manager, general manager ETC ETC. but the key is he WORKED hard. When he died he just retired from McDonalds (not even 55 years old, much too young to die) had a beautiful 4 level backsplit home, a beautiful family with 4 incredible children etc etc. all because he took a crappy minimum wage job and took it as far as he could :) I know not everyone can be district manager or whatever title at burger king or dunkin donuts but I also can't say I've seen many employees of these places that deserve it either.

I've worked many minimum wage food service jobs. yeah they suck but if you do a half a$$ed job you get half a$$ed pay. there absolutely IS a future in these places but you have to put up with the crappy minimum wage job to start out and you have to be GREAT at it even though it sucks and you would be surprised what kind of future you can get out of them. I can think of three people in my family ALONE that have made decent careers in the fast food industry. There ARE careers in food service and retail you just have to be willing to work for them and put up with a crappy job first. The nice thing is most of these companies hire from within so if you really apply yourself chances actually aren't that bad that you could make a decent living.

I also think having a degree is a double edged sword. if you don't have the specific degree for one job they won't even look at you but if you go to McDonalds for a counter service job but have a big degree they won't look at you because you are over qualified. kind of sucks

That's how it is for a lot of places... you start in the mail room and work your way up. you don't just walk into a CEO job :)
 

Beanie

Clicker Cult Coordinator
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
14,012
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
39
Location
Illinois
#23
Otherwise, just keep swimmin'...
The only problem with that is eventually you get tired of swimming and then you drown.

But honestly, drowning seems a more productive solution to the problem than going to protest a bunch of people who make more money than me...
 

Lilavati

Arbitrary and Capricious
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
7,644
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
47
Location
Alexandria, VA
#24
That used to be the case, but its not so much any more. Often, instead of promoting from within, they hire nice shiny MBA graduates to those positions now. Or, NOW, they hire desperate, exhausted experienced managers who got fired from somewhere else.

Mike works at Staples, which does promote from within, and he works very hard. But its a long, long, slog to a "respectable" position, and without a BA (he has an AA) its unlikely he'll get there. Especially since they often hire laterally for management now. Not always, but often.

Its not an absolute rule . . .but somewhere many corporations got the idea in their heads that "being an executive" is not something you become after working your way through the ranks and learning the business from the inside out. Instead its a skill in its own right . . . you go to school to learn it and then you can "manage" anything.

Oh, and try getting a job at McD's around here . . .if you are white (or black and educated) they say they aren't hiring management and tell you get lost.

The working up from the mailroom is by and large a myth these days. Up from certain "entry" level jobs, sure. But the mailroom? Not a chance in most companies. Heck, a lot of them outsource their mailroom. We do.
 

AliciaD

On second thought...
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
1,560
Likes
0
Points
36
#25
When my mom was out of work and couldn't get a job (she was laid off from her job as a legal aid consultant along with 5 other employees) she applied to a bunch of places and had a degree in social work. She finally applied to McDonalds (not a manager position). They said they don't hire anyone with higher education because it's a waste to train them when they'll be looking for a better job anyways. I'm not sure if that's a McDonalds position, or just this particular managers.
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#26
Well then i guess the world just sucks and we should just all stop trying since no one is ever hiring for anything ever again

I dont know maybe i just have rose colored glasses on but i think i will keep them lol

I have never had an issue getting a food service or retail job. I am sure some people have trouble but i dont believe its impossible to find for the average person. I know mcdonalds here always have signs saying they are hiring. High turnover rate
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
41
Location
Denver, CO
#27
The only problem with that is eventually you get tired of swimming and then you drown.

But honestly, drowning seems a more productive solution to the problem than going to protest a bunch of people who make more money than me...
Oh tell me about it; the amount of "water treading" I've done over the last couple of years has been beyond exhausting. Things are hopefully starting to look up. Hopefully. I have an interview tomorrow for a supervisor position and the only reason I'm getting tapped for that I credit to having a degree and working in direct sales, which gives me experience in being persistant, creative and managing other people, to whatever level they were wanting, who 100% have the choice whether or not they want to listen.

Sparks, it doesn't really work that way anymore. The market has changed drastically in the last couple of years and the old rules have essentially ceased to apply. Even in sales, whether it's direct or traditional, are having to shift their thinking and methods to adapt to the new economy and people's changed thinking.
 

Lilavati

Arbitrary and Capricious
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
7,644
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
47
Location
Alexandria, VA
#28
Sparks, I don't think anyone is saying that. But I've seen a lot of people be pretty blithe about what other people should be doing and the challenges that people (especially young people) are facing. Things are very, very hard, and for a lot of people, getting ANY job is tough, and things don't look like they are getting better for a lot of people soon.

I'm particularly annoyed that it often seems to be the same people who will complain that there aren't enough jobs in one breath and then blame people for not getting a job in the next.

Yep, there aren't enough jobs. That's why a lot of people don't have one. And a lot of the jobs that there are are dead-end, part-time, or minimum wage, which might be ok temporarily, but after 3 years of little improvement in the economy starts to look really scary.
 

sillysally

Obey the Toad.
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
5,074
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
A hole in the bottom of the sea.
#29
Does anyone *really* think that we have almost 10% unemployment because of a bunch of college kids with philosophy degrees can't find jobs? Come on now....

I will say that the girl holding the sign in the op had best realize that living below their means or not, no job is guaranteed in this economy, and should daddy lose his job she and her family could be asking others to pay their bills as well.....

But by the grace of God go I...
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#31
Does anyone *really* think that we have almost 10% unemployment because of a bunch of college kids with philosophy degrees can't find jobs? Come on now....

I will say that the girl holding the sign in the op had best realize that living below their means or not, no job is guaranteed in this economy, and should daddy lose his job she and her family could be asking others to pay their bills as well.....

But by the grace of God go I...
is that what I said? No I did not. :) I said I don't really feel too badly for kids who are screaming to have a cut of the rich mans paycheck because they got a degree that doesn't lend to a job in this economy and now they want someone else to pay that bill for them. If it is too much for you to pay now it was too much for you to pay then... they should have been complaining about the cost of it BEFORE they got a loan for a degree that has no job market. That doesn't mean every college kid who ever lived is in this category and it doesn't mean that everyone who has fallen on hard times falls into this category either. Just an observation that if you get a degree that doesn't have a job market you shouldn't be surprised that you don't have a job to pay for said degree. YES I'm sure they learned some very valuable things in philosophy but what good is it if they can't apply it to the current market. sure they are smart... homeless... but smart. that's not to say every kid who has a philosophy degree (or other such degrees) are all jobless and doomed to wander the earth... some are brilliant enough to translate what they learned into the job market, others aren't and I'd be willing to bet there are a few of them protesting.

:)
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#32
The point I'm trying to make is that many so called "useless" degrees DO give you job skills, and may actually prepare you better to excel than a so-called useful degree. Because they teach you generally applicable skills, AND make you a more rounded, educated person.

There are several separate issues here:

1) The idea that everyone HAS to have a 2 or 4 year degree, let alone a liberal arts degree, to be employable is driving a lot of people who do not really WANT further education and thus aren't going to benefit from it to rack up debt and waste time. If you aren't a student, if you do not want to LEARN, do yourself and everyone else a favor and go to a trade school. Or apprentice to a plumber. Save everyone some pain and do not major in the social sciences or the humanities and whine and sleep through class.

2) I've taken social science classes at a local college (while I was in high school) and I've taken them at two very good universities. Majoring in philosophy at the local community college IS a waste . .. because they teach at a low level . . . memorizing the opinions of philosophers (or points of religious doctrine) and taking multiple choice tests is useless (includng if you want to be a philosopher, I might add) But taking it at a good school (I'm speaking here about anthropology and religious studies . . . I've never actually taken a philosophy class) is a way to practice vital skills in reading, writing, analysis, critical thinking, etc . . skills that people who are going to work in information economy jobs must have. It doesn't matter if you got those skills as an English major, a Philosophy major, and Anthropology major, or as a Vital Information Age Skills major. Except that the person who majored in English, Philosophy or Anthropology learned something ELSE too, something about our society, or about the world, or about themselves. God help us all if everyone who isn't rich is forced to only learn "useful" skills, because everyone automatically assumes that being a philosophy major means all you can do is philosophize. I call absolute, and total B.S. on that, at least if they attended a good school. I did not learn the skills that landed me a job at a high-ranked law firm in law school . . . I learned those basic skills as a religious studies major, in my "useless" degree. I learned a lot of other things as well. And I am VERY glad I did not major in "pre-law."

3) We do need to stop telling kids who major in these things that they can become philosophers, or scholars of religion, or anthropologists. They can't. Moreover, most of them don't actually WANT to when they find out what is involved. They are at college to become educated and to learn useful skills . . . and to do so within a program that teaches them something interesting at the same time. They are there to become educated adults . . . who have focused on some course of study that interests them. They are not there, by and large, to become philosophers.

4) I hate focused degrees that teach someone to do something specific and nothing else. Yes, there are times when that is useful. But by and large, an 18 year old isn't going to be able to know either what they want to do, or what will be in demand, 4 years later. Unless they are going into a technical field, they need general skills that can be used in any job. Golf course management should not be a major . . . business management is (although I feel much the same about a lot of business degrees as I do about pre-law . . . )
This whole post . . . :cheers: The bolded parts :hail: :first:
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#33
I gotta keep this short. The deer get up early.

You know what I see from this thread? That the modern leftist-socialist-'progressive'-'lets all drive sail cars powered by unicorn farts' kind of world will never work.... In a FREE society.


Everybody is pissed off because the world is coming inside out. Perhaps its time to examine the way the world has been tilting the past century. More and more central planning. More and more government by overeducated and underwise people. More and more BOOMING industries that thrive on regulating the regulations. (Whats the best economy in the US? Washington, DC?)

"A Republic, if you can keep it." Massive central authority never has lead to freedom or prosperity. It just can't. People are too different.

"Faction is to liberty as fire is to air."
 

Zoom

Twin 2.0
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
40,739
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
41
Location
Denver, CO
#35
As an off-shoot of this, we NEED more people going into skilled labor. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, masonry, all of those areas are slowly dwindling as everyone has it in their head that every person in the country can/needs to get a 4 year degree and some type of office job.

So, my whole suggestion to the side of "quit yer whinin and get a job" would be to offer up those alternatives. McDonald's has gotten far too used to working/paying for the high school kids and foreigners (forgive the term but it's late and the best blanket statement I can think of) who will work for less and with higher turnover. Most fast food places don't want long-termers, it's not as economical for their bottom line.

We still need to figure out how to solve the economic crisis though, before we find ourselves in our own modern version of the French Revolution.
 

Lilavati

Arbitrary and Capricious
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
7,644
Likes
0
Points
36
Age
47
Location
Alexandria, VA
#37
As an off-shoot of this, we NEED more people going into skilled labor. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, masonry, all of those areas are slowly dwindling as everyone has it in their head that every person in the country can/needs to get a 4 year degree and some type of office job.

Amen to that. Those are GOOD jobs, and by and large, they can't be outsourced. All those kids who don't want to go to college, who aren't good students, who want to work with their hands, should look at them. Unfortunately, society has gotten it into its head that those are "low status" jobs, rather than seeing them as what they are: skilled honest work. "Working class" perhaps, but frankly, what's a low-level white collar manager? Working class . . . they just pretend that they aren't. I lived in a neighborhood full of working folks who did things like electricity and plumbing . . . not only have I never liked my neighbors more, I never felt as safe since I moved out from my parents house as I did there.

Honestly, and I'm speaking as a lawyer here . . . we need more plumbers and fewer lawyers!

Good luck with the deer Puck . . .
 

smkie

pointer/labrador/terrier
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
55,184
Likes
35
Points
48
#38
Around here it is the grandmothers that are doing the low status jobs and the young people that are only qualified for that kind of work are having a harder time getting work because the elderly are being forced back into it to survive and I don't see that getting any better no matter who has what degree.
 

sparks19

I'd rather be at Disney
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
28,563
Likes
3
Points
38
Age
42
Location
Lancaster, PA
#39
wanna hear something funny?

LOL my plumbers last name is... Cashdollar :O LOL I kid you not and with the amount of plumbing issues we've had he's earned many a cashdollar from us lol

yeah I really think it sucks that society has this idea that everyone needs a 4 year degree... we NEED the garbage collectors and the plumbers and the masonry guy that came to fix our front porch etc etc. We need the minimum wage workers at Walmart, fast food or the grocery store etc etc
 

96 GTS

Custom User Title
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
1,658
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
37
Location
Minnesota
#40
As an off-shoot of this, we NEED more people going into skilled labor. Carpentry, electrical, plumbing, masonry, all of those areas are slowly dwindling as everyone has it in their head that every person in the country can/needs to get a 4 year degree and some type of office job.

So, my whole suggestion to the side of "quit yer whinin and get a job" would be to offer up those alternatives. McDonald's has gotten far too used to working/paying for the high school kids and foreigners (forgive the term but it's late and the best blanket statement I can think of) who will work for less and with higher turnover. Most fast food places don't want long-termers, it's not as economical for their bottom line.

We still need to figure out how to solve the economic crisis though, before we find ourselves in our own modern version of the French Revolution.
This x10000. I'm just finishing up an automotive technology degree. I already have a job at a VW dealership, and they're practically BEGGING me to start full time. As soon as I graduate I'll have full time employment, way more than most graduates can expect.

I don't ever expect to become a millionaire doing this, but starting off at around $45k a year is not bad at all. There are several techs here that are really good that make close to 6 figures, maybe more. It's not easy work but the jobs aren't going anywhere. There is definitely money to be made in the trades.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top