Controversial Issues

[k9krazee]

Is that directed at me because I didn't want to discuss how I felt about pooping?

I definitely find it weird when there are members here and I have no idea what they have for dogs. It's a dog forum; I mostly come here for dog stuff.

LOL No! I didn't participate in that thread either!!

 

[stardogs]

That discussion had me cracking up. It's obviously just not possible.

"Would your husband be happy with just a sniff?!" Hahahahaha.

OMG seriously. I almost replied "If we want to use humans as a parallel example, how to you explain that the vast majority of men don't just go out and rape women? If they are the same as dogs and dogs can't be expected to control themselves, then how can humans? All the men I know enjoy sex, but they also have learned to control themselves. Why can't we do this with dogs? Why can't Gott's video be done with any dog?"

But I restrained myself. With self control. That I've developed over time. With effort. >.<

Oh and the bit about it being mean to ask them to control themselves about sent me over the darn edge!

 

[CharlieDog]

OMG seriously. I almost replied "If we want to use humans as a parallel example, how to you explain that the vast majority of men don't just go out and rape women? If they are the same as dogs and dogs can't be expected to control themselves, then how can humans? All the men I know enjoy sex, but they also have learned to control themselves. Why can't we do this with dogs? Why can't Gott's video be done with any dog?"

But I restrained myself. With self control. That I've developed over time. With effort. >.<

Oh and the bit about it being mean to ask them to control themselves about sent me over the darn edge!

It's kind of baffling coming from the horse world, where Stallions are expected to learn to behave even around mares in season, to the dog world where a bitch in heat is the end of the world for male dogs. Seriously, if you can control a 1000lb+ animal around a mare in season, you can control a dog, and they can learn to work around it.

I honestly think a lot of the bitch in season issues stem from people who REALLY push the mandatory spay/neuter. Which is a whole different issue.

 

[Lyzelle]

I feel like breeders are always controversial. I know I have bitten my tongue on several threads or posts where a breeder was brought up in a "I'd love to have a dog from them one day!" or "I'm looking at such and such breeder" way. Uuugggh. I can't deal. I avoid that area of the forum for days. I just feel like it isn't my place to say anything, so I say nothing at all. But then later on you might hear, "If only I had known, I wouldn't have gotten a dog from them!" Self-Guilt-Trip forever. So unless someone ASKS, I stay out of it. It is entirely possible they know the drama and controversy and chose anyway!

People who are lackadaisical about health testing and health status. I don't feel like there is ANY reason to give up health for something cosmetic or really anything. But other people do not agree and feel it perfectly okay to breed unhealthy dogs!

Man-handling training techniques. "She is doing that because you give her too much leash!", "You should push her into a down", "Just throw something at her cage, then she will stop screaming." Makes me want to take a leash and whip the ever living snot out of those people. MAYBE IT WILL MAKE YOU ACT LESS LIKE A DOUCHE

 

[Oko]

OMG seriously. I almost replied "If we want to use humans as a parallel example, how to you explain that the vast majority of men don't just go out and rape women? If they are the same as dogs and dogs can't be expected to control themselves, then how can humans? All the men I know enjoy sex, but they also have learned to control themselves. Why can't we do this with dogs? Why can't Gott's video be done with any dog?"

But I restrained myself. With self control. That I've developed over time. With effort. >.<

Oh and the bit about it being mean to ask them to control themselves about sent me over the darn edge!

Yeah exactly, I was saying somewhere else if we draw that parallel now we're saying rape culture is expected. Not to mention they only used male examples as if you couldn't turn and sniff your husband and want to jump him? And only teenage MALES want sex? It was bizarre all around.

 

[Grab]

Where is this?!?

I want to know too, lol

 

[Oko]

It's on Denise Fenzi's timeline it's a public post.

 

[Grab]

It's on Denise Fenzi's timeline it's a public post.

Oo, heading off

As for controversial..I don't think I have terribly controversial views. Unless you work at a vet's office and don't think that absolutely everything need be spayed/neutered. Then you're definitely a weirdo For the record, I am not anti spay/neuter. There are lots of people not responsible enough to own an intact animal. But I do think that owners should be educated on all of their options as well as alternative altering options. So they can be fully educated to make the decision for their individual pet. And if someone comes in with a healthy, elderly intact dog who has never randomly gone around impregnating things, do not crinkle your nose and ask "ugh, why isn't he neutered?!?!?!"

I also don't mind properly done cropping/docking. I don't have a cropped breed, so not something I have to make a decision on, but I don't think the recovery period is different than a spay/neuter, and we do those all the time.

 

[JazzyTheSibe]

There are lots of people not responsible enough to own an intact animal. But I do think that owners should be educated on all of their options as well as alternative altering options. So they can be fully educated to make the decision for their individual pet. And if someone comes in with a healthy, elderly intact dog who has never randomly gone around impregnating things, do not crinkle your nose and ask "ugh, why isn't he neutered?!?!?!"

This. Exactly.

I'm not against spaying or neutering, nor am I against intact dogs.

Personally? Do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel more comfortable with spaying or neutering, then I have no issues with you making that decision. If you feel more comfortable with leaving your dog intact? Go for it. As mentioned above, do what makes you feel the most comfortable. But, I'd also suggest doing your research.

What bugs isn't that people are neutering their dogs, or leaving them intact- what bugs me is this is viewed with black and white. One "answers" won't always be the "solution".

 

[Dogdragoness]

This. Exactly.

I'm not against spaying or neutering, nor am I against intact dogs.

Personally? Do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel more comfortable with spaying or neutering, then I have no issues with you making that decision. If you feel more comfortable with leaving your dog intact? Go for it. As mentioned above, do what makes you feel the most comfortable. But, I'd also suggest doing your research.

What bugs isn't that people are neutering their dogs, or leaving them intact- what bugs me is this is viewed with black and white. One "answers" won't always be the "solution".

Thats how I feel, do what you feel comfortable with. Of course there will always be people who aren't responsible enough to own an intact animal (females are a lot harder to manage responsibly than males IMHO but it can be done if the person is willing to put in the effort).

I dont have a problem with having intact males, but I think I will always have my females spayed, simply because although I am a responsible pet owner, I just don't think I have the level if responsibility and management IN me to deal with a dog in heat, maybe for one heat, for health reasons, but thats it! Plus, I live out in the boonies with a lot of loose, and stray dogs with no way of isolating a female in heat, and I have other dogs and I could just see fights breaking out btw the interlopers that might try to get to her and our dogs ... no thanks.

But you (general you) can't please the masses, no matter what you do, fix your dog and you are a bad person and putting their health at risk! leave your dog intact and you are adding to the problem of the overpopulation! so there is really no way to win. :rofl1:

 

[JacksonsMom]

I also don't mind properly done cropping/docking. I don't have a cropped breed, so not something I have to make a decision on, but I don't think the recovery period is different than a spay/neuter, and we do those all the time.

The difference to me is that spaying/neutering is for a good reason (at least, if that's what you believe). Cropping is simply aesthetics.

And it seems to me cropping is a lot more daily work. After a spay/neuter, most dogs seem to bounce back within a few days, a week tops. It takes a lot longer, as far as maintenance goes in general, in getting the ears to properly stand up. I've seen Dobe pups wearing the post things on their ears for what seems like a majority of their puppyhood. And the dealing with applying neosporin or w/e for the scabs, and the re-posting, and re-wrapping, using tampons, LOL... it would just not be something I'd be willing to do, even though as I said, I am hypocritical because I actually do prefer the look of a cropped/docked Dobe than au natural.

I see stuff like this and I'm just like... too much work for me. I'm too lazy and I also don't see the point in putting dogs through this just because I like the way it looks better. https://doberman-chat.com/community/threads/doberman-ear-posting-improved-method.11167/

 

[sassafras]

I'm not interested in cropping or docking being outlawed although I'm personally not a fan of it. But a weird thing that has happened for me is that no matter how beautifully done, when I look at cropped ears all I see is how artificial it is anymore. I've come to really dislike the look just because it looks SO fake to me and all I can see is how the ears were changed and how they wanted to be.

 

[DJEtzel]

I really like most crop/dock jobs. I would like a rottie with a tail one day, though!

I figure, at least they aren't taking useful hormones out of the dog!

 

[*blackrose]

I really like most crop/dock jobs. I would like a rottie with a tail one day, though!

I figure, at least they aren't taking useful hormones out of the dog!

But, depending on the situation, could be very unuseful behavioral wise. Cooper was neutered because he would NOT stop peeing in the house, no matter what we did. After his neuter, with tike for those hormones to dissipate...no more marking, even when in an unfamiliar area.

I think there is enough research and data out there for people to make informed decisions and do what they believe is best for their pet - and as long as that doesn't result in unwanted litters, or an immediate threat to their dog (say, pyometra in a bitch), I'm happy. I just wish people could stop looking down on one another for what they choose to do surgically with their animal, be it altering or choosing to leave entire.

(General people, not anyone here. John Q Public.)

As for cropping/docking, I personally wouldn't want to deal with having to post ears...but people do that without cropping and I would never want to mess with it. LOL

 

[HayleyMarie]

I originally wanted a Boerboel with a tail, but honestly I am go glad that Pan does not have a tail. I can just imagine all the bruises on my knees and the water and broken glass all over my floors.

I would love a BB with a tail one day, but right now I am glad I don't have one.

Mitsu had a long, strong tail and that tail caused havoc. She also had a wound on her tail that would never heal.

 

[Linds]

The thing that bothers me with altering isn't whether or not people choose to do it. If you make an informed decision for no matter the reason be it convenience, precaution, heck even looks I'm ok with it. Because it was informed.

I'm not ok with lying or withholding truth or exaggerating things so that the general public will just get their dogs altered because we obviously can't trust them. Just no. I am not ok with people getting told they should alter their animals or they will die of cancer after having a million babies, peeing on everything and eating your children. Stop with the lies. Educate people! Especially when it's people that obviously care enough they go to their vet or trainer or someone they trust only to get told the propaganda fear mongering because they've been deemed too stupid to handle the truth.

Yes, the average person I meet has no clue what a heat looks like, they think when the dogs stop bleeding it means it's over. But, how many of the places that love to scream the dangers of intactness take a moment to say "Ok, but if you do keep your dog intact here are the things you need to watch out for and protect against."

It's basically the same problem I have with abstinence only teaching. Sure, most teenagers are morons but still give them the tools and knowledge to make an informed decision and do it safely.


ETA: On docking and cropping I really have no opinion. I don't care if people do it, I wouldn't want to take the choice away from them but it doesn't bother me if it slowly dies off.

 

[JessLough]

I'm sick of the rescue/breeder being pitted against each other. I'm sick of rescues spouting that if you buy from a (responsible) breeder, you are killing another dog in a shelter. I'm sick of people that go through breeders spouting that they're dog is more worthy/more valuable than a rescue dog. A life is a life. What makes one more valuable than the other?

People that just cycle through pets. Also, their friends/SOs that very obviously must see the problem and decide to save feelings instead of saying something.

People that can't afford the pets they have, so they are living without needed vet care, and then get another dog. And their friends that say nothing other than "yay! new pet!" because that's easier than somebody getting butthurt. Then somebody being surprised when the new pet needs vet care and isn't getting it to the extent needed, because now they have another pet and more expenses than before, when they couldn't afford the vet care.

People that complain about the prices of vets, and spew that they are just in it for the money. Just, no.

I can't look at a cropped dog, because I just... see it as deformed. That said, I'm not for taking away the choice.

People who talk down to other people who made the decision to alter their dog. Keeping a dog intact is not for everybody. The idea that the only way you can care about the health of your pet is to keep it intact. Altering doesn't mean you don't care. It just means you don't want to deal with intact dog/have health concerns with keeping as such. Informed decisions, whichever way you choose, is never bad.

ETA: People that sit back and do nothing with the issue but then complain about how they don't like how a rescue works. **** right I have certain needs for adopters -- I've loved this pet as my own, and I'm going to make sure no pain comes to it. Don't like it? That's your own problem.

ETA2: While I'm at it, rescues that claim to take special interest in one breed, then just spread misinformation about that breed.

 

[Picklepaige]

Not gonna lie, it really weirds me out when doberman people talk about cropping like it's an artform. There's something so...squicky with comparing carving out a dog's ears to painting the **** Mona Lisa.

 

[*blackrose]

The thing that bothers me with altering isn't whether or not people choose to do it. If you make an informed decision for no matter the reason be it convenience, precaution, heck even looks I'm ok with it. Because it was informed.

I'm not ok with lying or withholding truth or exaggerating things so that the general public will just get their dogs altered because we obviously can't trust them. Just no. I am not ok with people getting told they should alter their animals or they will die of cancer after having a million babies, peeing on everything and eating your children. Stop with the lies. Educate people! Especially when it's people that obviously care enough they go to their vet or trainer or someone they trust only to get told the propaganda fear mongering because they've been deemed too stupid to handle the truth.

Yes, the average person I meet has no clue what a heat looks like, they think when the dogs stop bleeding it means it's over. But, how many of the places that love to scream the dangers of intactness take a moment to say "Ok, but if you do keep your dog intact here are the things you need to watch out for and protect against."

It's basically the same problem I have with abstinence only teaching. Sure, most teenagers are morons but still give them the tools and knowledge to make an informed decision and do it safely.


ETA: On docking and cropping I really have no opinion. I don't care if people do it, I wouldn't want to take the choice away from them but it doesn't bother me if it slowly dies off.

Basically....this. LOL I am tired of being looked at like I have three heads when I say Abrams is still intact. I'm hoping to do some short term fostering for a local shelter that needs foster homes to hold dogs while they await transport to rescue, and I'm really crossing my fingers that they don't deny me just based on the fact that Abrams has his balls. I wrote a detailed message saying WHY he does (scientific studies), but I'm just waiting for them to say, "Oh, I'm sorry, our policy doesn't allow us to place spayed/neutered foster dogs who need to get out of this shelter or die into an otherwise responsible, caring home who just so happens to have an intact animal." But we shall see, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised!

People that just cycle through pets. Also, their friends/SOs that very obviously must see the problem and decide to save feelings instead of saying something.

People that can't afford the pets they have, so they are living without needed vet care, and then get another dog. And their friends that say nothing other than "yay! new pet!" because that's easier than somebody getting butthurt. Then somebody being surprised when the new pet needs vet care and isn't getting it to the extent needed, because now they have another pet and more expenses than before, when they couldn't afford the vet care.

Can I have you knock some sense into my sister, please? Pretty, pretty please? I will pay you.

 

[Panzerotti]

People that just cycle through pets. Also, their friends/SOs that very obviously must see the problem and decide to save feelings instead of saying something.

So much this.

Also, people that use their dogs as extensions of their ego, and go through dog after dog frantically searching for the next "nationals" dog (for whatever sport), even worse so when they themselves are not a nationals level trainer/human.