breeder and ckc help!!!!

[tjedt]

hi ok can someone tell me if there is anything else i can do here i contacted the ckc because someone was saying i should show my pup but he needed to be registered and was he??
well the breeder i bought him from was a registered breeder with the ckc and all her dogs are she had the mom and dad there.
she bragged about how she breeds beautifully proportioned puppies and when i saw them i would be in love .......well i was!!!
she told me the price and i said at that time i didn't have that much and was hoping to get something that weekend cause it was my daughters birthday.
she told me well ok i will sell him to you for that but he will not be registered....so i said fine no big deal i don't care he was just going to be a addition to the family.
now i was thinking it might be fun to get him into training and show him so i contacted the ckc to register him just to find out i can't.
they told me that under the bylaw 30.1 she needs too so contact her and let her know and she has 6 months to send me the papers.
so i email her and she says to me .............those dogs were not mine how can i register dogs and puppies that aren't mine!!!!

well the microchip info has her name on it
the vet she used she is listed as the owner of that litter and the parents

BUT she didn't give me a receipt and i paid cash and i forgot to ask cause of being so excited and driving hours to get him and i had my baby there who was tired and needed to leave so i forgot!!!

BUT i have emails in regards to the puppy since the morning of the day i got him till today!
up until today she never told me he wasn't hers until i mentioned the ckc!!!

when i asked about de-worming she said she did it at 6 and 8 weeks when asked about how they ate she told me what she cooked and what kibble they ate from day one.

if she didn't own any of these dogs how could she claim all this and then switch her stories???

i am going to sign a affidavit and file a complaint but does anyone know or think i will win this or have any idea's of what else i can do?

she also sent me a email saying i have a litter coming that will be ckc registered so if you want one of those puppies bring him back to me and i will give you one of the other ones!!!

someone please give me advice i have never dealt with this before!!~!

 

[PoodleMommy]

Usually you need to determine before you purchase the pup what kind of registration they will be purchased on.

A breeder will charge more for pups who are show quality and who will be fully registered.

With no contract, you are probably wasting your time in court.

How do you know this dog is show quality anyway?

 

[tjedt]

well i don't know if he is show quality i was told by another person who shows dogs that he is but the breeder doesn't or didn't say or ask if i wanted a show quality dog nor do i think she breeds them.
according to the ckc a breeder is not allowed to sell their dogs for different prices it can only be one price that is the bylaw 30.1 they said.

i didn't sign a contract she never mentioned one maybe because she never even registered the litter never mind the pup.

so as long as she didn't plan on registering him i didn't need a contract.

 

[xpaeanx]

well i don't know if he is show quality i was told by another person who shows dogs that he is but the breeder doesn't or didn't say or ask if i wanted a show quality dog nor do i think she breeds them.
according to the ckc a breeder is not allowed to sell their dogs for different prices it can only be one price that is the bylaw 30.1 they said.

i didn't sign a contract she never mentioned one maybe because she never even registered the litter never mind the pup.

so as long as she didn't plan on registering him i didn't need a contract.

Any good breeder makes you sign a contract no matter if you are getting a show prospect or a pet quality puppy.

From what you've said, I am going to have to assume this was a BYB who just talked a good game and you bought into it.

 

[PoodleMommy]

You should have a contract when you purchase anything... whether the dog is show quality does not determine if there should be a contract.

Breeders can charge more to sell dogs on a full registration as opposed to a limited registration or no registration, it is done all the time.

Having a dog going to a home as a pet to be S/N is different than a pet that will be shown, possibly bred, and then attempt to carry on your kennels lines.

 

[Laurelin]

It doesn't sound like a reputable breeder to me at all. Registration (limited/full), spay/neuter agreements, show potential, etc should be dealt with before bringing the pup home and discussed with the breeder.

 

[FoxyWench]

in this case you havent got a leg to stand on.

as has already been said, show or pet there should have been at the very least a contract and health guarentee...

the breeder doesnt HAVE to register a litter...
and unless both parents are registered...they CANT register the litter...

so if she decided not to reg the litter, you arnt getting papers...

this was obviously a BYB and you fell for her schpeil.

on a side note, id love to see pictures of your boy.

 

[tjedt]

ok she is a canadian kennel club member has been for 5 years i don't know how that would be a BYB.

this is the first puppy i bought and i thought that by buying the dogs in canada annual all the breeders in there were ckc registered.

in talking to the ckc i found out that's not true so i was naive but as a first time puppy owner i didn't know what i should be looking for.


HER DOGS ARE ALL REGISTERED I TALKED TO THE CKC so she does have to register the litter and the individual dogs

 

[PoodleMommy]

ok she is a canadian kennel club member has been for 5 years i don't know how that would be a BYB.

registering with a "kc" means nothing... plenty of BYB's are registered.

HER DOGS ARE ALL REGISTERED I TALKED TO THE CKC so she does have to register the litter and the individual dogs

she doesnt HAVE to do anything she doesnt want.

You should have decided you wanted to show before you got a dog and dealt with a breeder who would sell to you on a full registration, allow you to keep your animal intact, and support you in showing the dog.

You should alter this dog and go looking for a show dog if that is what you want.

 

[Laurelin]

You dont' HAVE to register pups from registered parents. The breeder has that option as well as not registering them or putting them on a limited registration. If parents aren't registered, you can't register pups, but if the parents are you can but you don't have to.

 

[release the hounds]

I think you might need to chalk this one up to experience. I've never had to deal with the CKC, but I don't think they have to register a litter if they don't want to, unless they are selling you a ckc registered pup, but you have no contract to say otherwise.

 

[Dekka]

It is illegal in Canada to sell a dog as a purebred without supplying registration papers free. The seller must register and transfer the ownership of the dog to the buyer at no cost. This is protected by the ANIMAL PEDIGREE ACT. If a breeder is willing to sell you a purebred without papers for a lower cost, run...do not walk away! This is not reputable behaviour and it is illegal. What else might the breeder be concealing from you?

Your breeder is def NOT a good breeder. Just FYI most puppy mills register with the CKC or AKC. It has NOTHING to do with the quality of puppy.

You should have gotten a contract with the pup. It should contain a health/temperament guarantee, and s/n clauses.

I honestly doubt your puppy is going to be conf show quality coming from a kennel like that. (but that in no way means your pup couldn't do agility, or rally, etc and be a great pet) It just means you got hosed.

 

[AGonzalez]

Without a contract I think you're up sh!t creek without a paddle. Even with one their legal implications don't always (more like rarely) stand up in court.

However, what you CAN do here is this. Have your dog altered and register him ILP/PAL (not sure if the CKC has this but the AKC/UKC do) and do other venues than conformation. You can still compete in agility/obedience etc with an alternative listing. This might be something you'd like to look into, because if that litter isn't going to be registered you're pretty screwed.

 

[Dekka]

In ontario you don't need to show CKC.. there is more non CKC agility by far and more non CKC rally too.

 

[FoxyWench]

CKC (canadian) AKC (continental) are only better than mediocre registries because 1: they have shows, and 2: you cant just register dogs willy nilly...

anyone with 2 fully registered dogs can be a "member" of the CKC or AKC, this does NOT make them any better of a breeder than someone breeding unregistered dogs...
Registration means NOTHING, BYB's can absolutly be registered memebrs of the CKC...
the difference between Good members of these registries and bad memebers of these registries are in the way they take to breeding.
a GOOD breeder will: show their dogs in at least one kind of event...for the toy/none working breeds this is mostly confirmation...with working dogs ect however most breeders will show in the very least in agility or shcuthund ect...something to "prove" their dog is an outstanding example in its breed in at least one way.

a GOOD breeder will: Health Test their dogs...and were not talking "the vet says shes healthy" things liek Cerf, OFA, pen hip, ect should be done...these things cant be done untill the dogs are 2 yrs old

a GOOD breeder will: often do more with their dogs, its not unsual to see breeders with dogs with CGC certification, working as therapy dogs ect.

a GOOD breeder will: Have a health guarntee on their puppies along with some kind of contract. most good breeders will NOT sell a puppy on full registration to someone new to the breed wihtout some SERIOUS work on the buyers part...most will do co-ownership or have you aprentice under them with their dogs before sending you home with a fully reg'd dog.

a GOOD breeder will: Have a very well thoguth out and often STRICT contract in reguards to the purchase that will include issues like Full/limited/unregistered dogs as well as clauses on what will happen to the puppy if you cant keep it ect.

a GOOD breeder will: be available to the buyer for the life of the dog and beyond for questions concerns ect...good breeders develop lifelong connections to their buyers, these puppies are their "children" and they like to be kept updated. ect.

a GOOD breeder will: SCREEN a buyer...with a good breeder it is never a case of...show up to the breeders house, oh this puppies cute, heres your money and take the puppy...a good breeder will first interveiw YOU! expect to be questioned like crazy, sometimes it feels like your being discriminated against, and sometimes it feels like its harder to get a puppy than it is to adopt a child...this is GOOD, this means the breeder wants the ebst for their puppies.
THEN the breeder will contact your references, this is usually at least a personal and a veterinary or other profesional reference, and they will ask them LOTS of questions about you...
THEN the breeder will contact your landlord if you have one...and ask THEM lots of questions abotu you and if you can have a dog in your residence...
some breeders will VISIT their buyers, yup come to you home and INSPECT it to make sure its a good fit for the puppies...

THEN...if background, reference and personal check pan out and the breeder thinks your prepared enough, know what your getting into and they like you they will THEN say ok why dont you come by and meet the pups (or add you to a waiting list)

when you go to look at the pups they will then ask you even more questions, and will try and help you match the perfect puppy to your home...
then they will usually expect a deposit (becuase most good breeders have waiting lists ect and dont just advertise WHEN the pups are ready...
then youll come back multiple times untill puppy is ready to come home and continue to be evaluated trying to find the best fit for your family...
and THEN...when the puppy is old enough it can coem home...usually with a big puppy info pack...

and even after all that, a good breeder will: follow up, FREQUENTLY!


as has already been said...
just because shes a member of the club, and the parents are registered...it does NOT mean that she HAS to register the litter.

 

[Dekka]

Now hold on people. This is NOT the AKC, this is not the US.

We have the APA the animal pedigree act. Animal Pedigree Act

It is ILLEGAL in Canada to sell a purebred animal the is eligible for registration with out papers.

This is one of those cases where what happens in the US is not how it happens up here.

 

[vanillasugar]

Now hold on people. This is NOT the AKC, this is not the US.

We have the APA the animal pedigree act. Animal Pedigree Act

It is ILLEGAL in Canada to sell a purebred animal the is eligible for registration with out papers.

This is one of those cases where what happens in the US is not how it happens up here.

I'm glad you posted Dekka, I was pretty sure this was the case, but didn't know the facts 100%.

 

[tjedt]

omg ok i talked to the ckc they told me it is illegal to sell the puppies as purebred which she did with out registering them.

i don't know how they do things with the akc but the ckc thats how they do it go to the website and you can look for yourself.

www.ckc.ca

 

[MafiaPrincess]

omg ok i talked to the ckc they told me it is illegal to sell the puppies as purebred which she did with out registering them.

i don't know how they do things with the akc but the ckc thats how they do it go to the website and you can look for yourself.

www.ckc.ca

That was stated already more than once on this thread.. you ask for help yet don't read the other posts?

 

[tjedt]

well i when i refreshed my computer it didn't go to page 2 and i didn't see there was a page 2 so i saw 2 new posts so i replied SORRY MY BAD

plus all i have done is repeat myself over and over again and no one seems to be listening except dekka thanks btw for knowing and understanding.

this is why i had to finally back up my statements with a website so people can see for themselves.

yes i am asking for help because other then what i have stated i don't know if there is more i can do.

obviously i was an idiot that's already been stated sorry i was a naive first time puppy owner who thought i was doing the right thing by going to a ckc breeder i thought i would be protected by doing that just to find out the opposite.

so lets get past that and get to the problem and that is, is there anything thing else i can do???
will my dog get his papers????