Awww, crap. I have the opportunity to buy a puppy...

[GlassOnion]

I think the biggest thing for me is, accidental or not, this guy planned to breed these dogs anyways, according to your first post:

Yes, he did. So it was going to happen anyways, be it today or a couple days down the road. What should happen to the puppies? Should they get sold to someone like me, who has some semblance of an idea of how to take care of a dog, or to a random joe who has no idea what a GSD would even require? Or should they just be killed off because they were born on accident? I mean yes, he's likely a BYB, but they're excellent dogs phenotypically so it's not like he's going to have a problem selling them once he actively tries (he's not yet advertised them, as they're not 8 weeks yet).

Ahh but what if Mr breeding now goes on to tell people he sold his pups not only to police people.. but budding vets too?

The guy isn't the one selling his puppies to the police officers, that was where he got the sire of the current litter I'm looking at.

And he has no idea of my aspirations.

 

[corgipower]

I don't listen to my Vet about food choices. I don't listen to my Vet about jacking the dogs up with too many vaccines. I don't listen to my Vet about wanting them on HW 12 months a year. I don't listen to my Vet about flea preventative poisons either.

I am pretty well confident I am not going to listen to them if they recommend a breeder, LOL

^Yup.^

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

Yes, he did. So it was going to happen anyways, be it today or a couple days down the road. What should happen to the puppies? Should they get sold to someone like me, who has some semblance of an idea of how to take care of a dog, or to a random joe who has no idea what a GSD would even require? Or should they just be killed off because they were born on accident? I mean yes, he's likely a BYB, but they're excellent dogs phenotypically so it's not like he's going to have a problem selling them once he actively tries (he's not yet advertised them, as they're not 8 weeks yet).

That's the same thing people tell themselves when they buy a puppy from a pet store and support a puppy mill. "It's a cute puppy. If I don't buy it, someone else will. Might as well be me!"

All it'll do is put money in the pocket of a BYB and support their unethical breeding practices.

 

[babymomma]

I don't listen to my Vet about food choices. I don't listen to my Vet about jacking the dogs up with too many vaccines. I don't listen to my Vet about wanting them on HW 12 months a year. I don't listen to my Vet about flea preventative poisons either.

I am pretty well confident I am not going to listen to them if they recommend a breeder, LOL

YOU might not.. But Billy joe or whoever that doesnt KNOW the differance, will most likely take eveything his vet says as gospel..

 

[CharlieDog]

So your vet rocks and has ethics and our vets suck because they allow flyers up?

Whatever. I'm getting pretty sick of all the one upsmanship going on here lately. To borrow a phrase from Renee, "this is beyond the pale" so far beyond its rediculous.

 

[Dekka]

And he has no idea of my aspirations.

See now this scares me. Even most byb I know at least ask you a bit about yourself and where their pups go.

I would really steer clear GO. No I don't think the pups should be killed off. But the more people support them the more byb will breed. Its sad I know. I CAN walk past sorry looking pups at the market, its hard, but I know if I pay them 25 dollars I will just be encouraging them to keep doing it.

I keep educating, talking to JQ Public types, and don't support the very practises that KILL dogs.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

So your vet rocks and has ethics and our vets suck because they allow flyers up?

Please, find me the post where I said that. I said my vet has ethics. I did not follow it with, "but your vet sucks."

Nice try putting words into a post that aren't there.

 

[CharlieDog]

You implied that by saying your vet has the ethics to not allow flyers up. No, you didn't come right out and say it, and I didn't say that you did. By saying that your vet has the ethic to only allow up rescue dogs and free to good home ads, well, you can see where it went.

Just my observation.

 

[GlassOnion]

See now this scares me. Even most byb I know at least ask you a bit about yourself and where their pups go.

When I say he has no idea of my aspirations, he has no idea of my aspirations. He doesn't even know I'm interested in buying the dog at this point in time.

All I did was sit and play with the puppies a bit and ask a few questions and talk with them a bit about the dogs. Then I asked if the puppies were from his dogs and he said yes, so I asked to meet the parents (since I've never actually met them face to face before, just walked by them while walking my dog so as to avoid potential dog fights) and then asked if they were planning on selling the puppies. He said yes, that one has been spoken for already though, so there's still 5 more to buy.

And the reason they're so low in price is because he just wants rid of them as they came at an inconvenient time for him with his divorce and everything. But he doesn't want to just give them away because he knows what happens to some of those dogs as well.

That much I'd gotten from him. I didn't go too in depth about the health of the parents, just said 'they're beautiful dogs, where'd you get them?'

 

[ACooper]

YOU might not.. But Billy joe or whoever that doesnt KNOW the differance, will most likely take eveything his vet says as gospel..

This is a very valid point. I give that one to you

And ladies, LADIES..........lets all remember that we ALL love dogs. It's not a contest on who loves them bestest, LOL

Take a deep breath and relax. Debating can be fun, but lets KEEP IT FUN!

 

[Dekka]

Oh I can understand the cheap price for just wanting them gone. That is a good explanation. (He likely doesn't know that he can sell them just as fast for more money)

I was under the impression you had talked puppy with him. Sorry.

But when and if you do.. remember that who you buy your pup from can point to you and say 'they bought from me'

As I have said though.. if you do your research and find he's not so bad... then its less of a big deal. But just think is he someone you want to advertise for.. cause thats what happens when you buy a pup.. you endorse them.

 

[Dekka]

This is a very valid point. I give that one to you

And ladies, LADIES..........lets all remember that we ALL love dogs. It's not a contest on who loves them bestest, LOL

Take a deep breath and relax. Debating can be fun, but lets KEEP IT FUN!

I iz very relaxed... I don't think it has anything to do with who loves dogs more... that thought never crossed my mind to be honest. It has to do with ethics. Which IME is actually hardest if you DO really love dogs (since you mention it)

 

[CharlieDog]

Poor GO. Doesn't even get a "Ladies and Gentleman" in Coops "chill out" post

 

[ACooper]

:rofl1: GO wasn't getting BENT, hahahahah

And for the record, neither were YOU Dekka...........the ones getting bent know who they are, I don't mind if they are bent a little, I just don't want anything broken! :lol-sign:

 

[SisMorphine]

Just make sure that they are not related !

Grammy, nothing wrong with inbreeding when done correctly. Not that is really matters in this case, just wanted to pull this out.

I am of this mindset as well, I know of so called "Top" breeders, who have all the proper answers, dogs are tested, show,compete etc.. But they live their lives in kennels, they often have a few special ones in their home, but many are in kennels and though they have great show attitudes many have serious temperament issues that don't show until they are in a traditional pet home.....

This is why, to me, there is no "perfect formula" for a good breeder. You need to take EVERYTHING into account. Just because a breeder has conformation, or even agility, titles, doesn't mean the dogs are worthy of being bred. This is why I urge everyone to KNOW YOUR BREEDER AND YOUR BREED! Don't go by face value, delve deeper, always.

Fran, I'm sorry if you feel attacked. I think it was just being pointed out that deafness does not equal perfect health. I know some people with well bred dogs who ended up deaf for whatever reason. They were speutered and not used for future breeding purposes. If they were considered to be in good health even with the deafness I know at least one of them would have been kept in that person's breeding program.

I'm sorry to hear she's having hearing problems I'm sure the two of you will adjust accordingly. A smart dog is a smart dog, no matter what


GO:
An oops litter can happen, even to the best of breeders. I wouldn't necessarily say that this guy is a BYB just because this was an accident. BUT this is where you need to take into account the rest of it. You said he was planning on breeding this pair in the future anyway: did you ask what they offer? Exactly WHICH lines they are from, and if from different lines does the guy know how these lines have meshed in the past? Do you know the common health issues with these lines? This is all stuff I would ask about IF you are truly planning on getting a pup from this guy. I just always worry, especially with breeds like the GSD which are SO prone to health issues, and I don't want anyone to have to go through the heartbreak of having a sick dog (health or temperament-wise) if it can be prevented.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

:rofl1: GO wasn't getting BENT, hahahahah

And for the record, neither were YOU Dekka...........the ones getting bent know who they are, I don't mind if they are bent a little, I just don't want anything broken! :lol-sign:

Oh hell, Coop. I'm flexible.

 

[corgipower]

It's not a contest on who loves them bestest, LOL

I love them bestest!!

 

[CharlieDog]

I wasn't laboring under the impression that this was about who loves their dogs more or not either..

Yes, it is about ethics, but not everyones moral code is the same, so we probably aren't going to agree on the finer details of this.

 

[GlassOnion]

So anyways I just took a walk down there and they're not home at the moment. So uh, will try again tomorrow I guess. Stay tuned.

 

[CharlieDog]

Same bat time, same bat channel, GO?