Awww, crap. I have the opportunity to buy a puppy...

[Dekka]

No its that you said people... even those who know better should just throw ethics to the wind because the fight is too hard. Yet you have a kick ass siggy... thats represents an even harder fight.


If even educated people by from byb what is the hope? But really I HAVE been finding that people are becoming more aware. The issue often seems to be that they don't know how to tell a good breeder from a byb. GO knows the difference.

 

[Beanie]

Are you serious? You completely missed my point.

I took YOUR words and inserted YOUR FIGHT into them.
So read it and let it sink in. Then think about what you're asking of those of us who fight to educate people on how to find and identify reputable breeders.

Basically, just because it's "too hard," are you going to give up?
And you think because it's "too hard" we should give up?

Sorry, the defeatist attitude never suited me.

 

[Criosphynx]

I agree... awareness is changing.

I will continue to help people choose either rescue or a good breeder, just like I promote positive training in a whole world full of Ceaser followers...


I feel these things are important and I live and breathe it everyday. To say its not worth doing because we'll never win...wow just wow....it matters to every dog whos life is changed by it.

 

[bittervanityx]

Forget I said anything, really.

 

[ACooper]

I could see if she was going to the local pet store and picking out a dog. Puppy mills are 1000 times worse than a BYB. At least most of the parent dogs from BYB have a real home that loves them, even though they produce puppies once a year. They could be stuck in a 5x5 cage their whole life without any human interaction.

I am in total agreement with the above statement bitter.

As much as BYB is looked down upon, and it should be, they are NOT the source of animal over population..............neither are intact dogs running loose. Period. If BYB and loose intact dogs were all we had to contend with, there wouldn't be a population problem at all IMO.

Look up stats all you want, but MILLS are the main source of over population, and the main source of genetic defects being reproduced, and they probably will be now and forever unless some legislation (real, solid, no bull legislation) is introduced to stop them. And that isn't even the worst thing about mills...........we all know it. Sickly animals, tortured animals, animals that never get an ounce of love or compassion their whole lives

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Any dog, now or future, that I own will not be needed to "perform" whether that be correct confirmation, sports, or work. It's not a hobby or interest of mine. So any dog I get would be PET, only pet, and nothing more. That is why I don't give a whoot about titles, ribbons, conformation. I want the dog to be healthy, happy, and loving.

So honest to goodness, if there were a (what most here would consider/call) a BYB that health tested, had happy, healthy, loved parents, I would consider a puppy from them.

Shoot me, it's the way I see it. Now...........the odds/chances of finding a BYB inside those qualifications (health testing) are few and far between. That is exactly the reason I agree that GO should get one of those pups if their parents are tested and he wants one. He's met the parents, they seemed stable and healthy........tests to back it up, GO FOR IT.

 

[bittervanityx]

Thanks cooper, no one was getting my point... and yes even BYBs should health test. I agree with that.

 

[babymomma]

My mind was changed when i bought my dog. I was going to pay 1300 dollars for a "teacup" yorkie in Labrador. I found the add on kijiji... After looking at about 6 other adds from the same poster, offering 6 OTHER breeds of dogs, i sarted to get a funny feeling. (We had the arrangments made to get the dog, she came with no needles, no nothin. ) My mom later found out that an old friend had gotten a cocker spaniel from the same lady, 4 months before.
Well, in 4 months, she speant over $3000 dollars to fix her dying puppy. She had researched AFTER buying the puppy about BYBS and such. She regrets her decision. She saved us frommaking a mistake. Who knows, if i had gotten my puppy from that breeder, she might have been fine, but its more likely she would be sick, she might have died (Something i wouldnt handle very well), And she would cost us alot of money. So yes, Dekka, Everybody PLEASE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THIS "lost cause"! PLEASE!

FYI- I ended up getting keely from an AMAZING breeder.

 

[Dekka]

Could be regional.. more people around here buy from bybs than from pet stores. HERE byb are more of a problem. And just cause in an area mills are worse doesn't make byb ok. (if they do all the health testing.. and just as important-offer to take the dog back for life... then at least they are not contributing to the over pop problem)

 

[Picklepaige]

Maybe where you guys live, BYB's and strays aren't the source of overpopulation, but where I live, they are. My shelter gets in around 50 puppies a DAY, all "oops" litters and "I bred them because their cute but now I can't find a home for them" litters. Rarely do we get in mill dogs.

 

[release the hounds]

Regardless of the type of breeder, GSD pups should always be friendly and they should all come bounding up to at least check you out. Some will go find sometihng more interesting right away, some will stay for the pets and attention. if any don't do this I'd be worried.

As for the parent's since they're both there, check them out. I"m not big on supporting BYB"s especially in my breed of choice, but the majority of breeders in GSD's I wouldnt support either, but that's me.

and almost every GSD that's worth a dang will at least check people out and investigate in a friendly manner. They may not stick around long, but they won't be threatening or stay away if they haven't seen you before and you aren't posing an outward threat. If they did, i'd run from that breeder. a gsd is not a dog you want with a poor temperment.

I'd be interested to know what the "lines" are. Lots of byb's claim lineage of police dogs and all sorts of things, but 5 generations ago doesn't really matter anymore. There are so many misguided gsd breeders, thankfully there are still quite a few good ones too. They're just way outnumbered by the rest.

 

[bittervanityx]

Could be regional.. more people around here buy from bybs than from pet stores. HERE byb are more of a problem.

Im pretty sure it all equals out in the end. There are more pet stores where I live then dog breeders.

 

[ACooper]

But where did THEIR intact dogs to breed "oops" litters come from? You don't have to go to a pet store to purchase a mill dog..........you can get one from the paper, online, from a flier, on and on.

So yes, those BYB breeding "oops" litters probably somewhere back in those dog lines CAME from a mill that didn't care to hand out their dogs to the person with cash.

I have no idea where you are paige, but I DO know for sure DOWN SOUTH is a BIG mill region..........it's TERRIBLE!!

Anyway, I am done "wrecking" GO's thread, LOL.........I've given my opinion on what he should do, there's nothing left for me to say here

 

[Dekka]

Im pretty sure it all equals out in the end. There are more pet stores where I live then dog breeders.

So then we should fight both...

As well as fight things like BSL..

 

[bittervanityx]

I live in pennsylvania, Lancaster County is the biggest puppy mill county on the east coast. I live an hour from there.

Lancaster County, PA is the Puppy Mill Capitol of the East Coast - Associated Content

Map of Lancaster County Puppy Mills SHAME! on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[corgipower]

GO - as others have said, you want to see health testing. Health certs can't be gotten before the dog is 2, but prelims can be done and the rest of the ancestry should have their certs. Also, RTH gave good advice regarding temperament. Ask about contracts and guarantees. Will the breeder take the puppy back? Will he give you a replacement puppy or will he refund the money? And I wouldn't buy from breeders who don't ask any questions. A good breeder should be screening the buyers just as much as the buyers are screening the breeder.

 

[Criosphynx]

are we seriously arguing over if BYB or MILLS produce more discarded dogs?

6 million a year euthanized... I don't care if its 4 million from mill and 2 from BYB or the reverse. The numbers are HUGE from both sources.

 

[Ivy]

I have seen plenty of "off" dogs come from the so-called registered/reputable breeders as well so it goes both ways.

I know plenty of people with dogs that came from breeders that are registered, that do health checks and so forth and those are the dogs that are the most unhealthy.

A really good friend of mine got 2 spaniels a long time ago. They are the most unhealthy duo ever. They came from a registered breeder that was reffered to her by so many people involved in the dog community in her area. She later on got 2 mixed breeds and they are the healthiest and livliest duo ever. Great dogs.

I'm not saying we should encourage BYB's, we should not, but there are also a handful of "reputable" breeders that ruin the rest.

 

[Dizzy]

Yet people still think it's ok to buy a dog from the classifieds?

I did ask this not that long ago and people were like... yeah sure if it's being rehomed.

If this is an oops, then where's the diff?

For all we know this person really COULD have had an oops. And actually be into schutz or showing or anything.

GO was passing their house....

 

[Dekka]

Yet people still think it's ok to buy a dog from the classifieds?

I did ask this not that long ago and people were like... yeah sure if it's being rehomed.

If this is an oops, then where's the diff?

For all we know this person really COULD have had an oops. And actually be into schutz or showing or anything.

GO was passing their house....

If the breeder is breeding ethically does it matter if they advertise in the classifieds? How is the different that breed mags?

If this an oops.. well GO admitted they are bybs. If you read his first post its pretty obvious they aren't into showing.

 

[Dekka]

I have seen plenty of "off" dogs come from the so-called registered/reputable breeders as well so it goes both ways.

I know plenty of people with dogs that came from breeders that are registered, that do health checks and so forth and those are the dogs that are the most unhealthy.

A really good friend of mine got 2 spaniels a long time ago. They are the most unhealthy duo ever. They came from a registered breeder that was reffered to her by so many people involved in the dog community in her area. She later on got 2 mixed breeds and they are the healthiest and livliest duo ever. Great dogs.

I'm not saying we should encourage BYB's, we should not, but there are also a handful of "reputable" breeders that ruin the rest.

The big differences is that a reputable breeder will not only give you your money back.. they will also take the dog back. Thus not contributing to the over population problem. I have had healthy dogs both ways. Bad luck can happen anywhere. But if you want a mixed breed then go to a shelter or rescue so the byb aren't profiting by it.