Awww, crap. I have the opportunity to buy a puppy...
- Thread starter GlassOnion
- Start date
and yet... in most of those cases, those dogs had owners at some point. it's not that we have a pet overpopulation problem- there are always buyers for those petstore puppies, those mill puppies. if there weren't, they'd be closing up shop because it wouldn't be profitable.
this country doesn't have a puppy overpopulation problem. it has a problem with keeping dogs in homes.
this country doesn't have a puppy overpopulation problem. it has a problem with keeping dogs in homes.
That's why I said it's regional. There are no pet stores that sell puppies anywhere around here. Very few mills, really. Just a bunch of people who don't value dogs the same way people up north do. Every single person that brings a little of puppies to the shelter is told that they most likely will to euthanized, and they just shrug and say "that's life." The very same people keep bringing in puppies, even though we have low-cost spay/neuter clinics everywhere.
People just don't care down here.
People just don't care down here.
F
I live in the south, and we have a massive overpopulation problem, and it almost all stems from BYB's (as we have puppymills, but much fewer than the north). The pound in Baton Rouge awhile back was euthanizing, on average, 250 dogs a WEEK. That's 1,000 dogs a month. In 2008, Baton Route released statistics that the humane society just in BR euthanized almost 11,000 dogs and cats.
Down here, BYB's are a massive problem, and I am associated with many of them. Not as a buyer, but as a volunteer who takes in their 'useless' breeder dogs who are no longer of use, and re-homes them after speutering, vax, dentals, ect. And it's all breed of dogs, there's one thats a husky breeder, yorkies, poodles, and one that's boxer's and horrible bred great danes.
As far as the original question, I don't think you should give them $100 UNLESS, they PROVE that they took the dog to a vet, got a FULL veterinary exam, AND vaccinations and worming done BY THE VET. All this total is around $100, and you'd only be paying for the services done, and they wouldn't be really making any money off it the breeding at all.
But then again, you will still be supporting a BYB who planned to breed the dogs anyways. And if she see's that they can get $100 per puppy this time, the next time the dogs are purposely bred, they'll be more inclined to sell the puppies for a higher price, knowing there's a demand for them.
So all in all, no, I would never buy a puppy from these people. There are many rescues with full blooded german shepherds all across almost every state.
Ah, good to know. I think at this point, all of us that actually care can just quit, save ourselves the trouble, and not worry about educating the public on finding REPUTABLE breeders, or choosing a rescue over a BYB or pet store.
While we're at it, we might as well give up on BSL too since, you know, the public will do what they want.
Down here, BYB's are a massive problem, and I am associated with many of them. Not as a buyer, but as a volunteer who takes in their 'useless' breeder dogs who are no longer of use, and re-homes them after speutering, vax, dentals, ect. And it's all breed of dogs, there's one thats a husky breeder, yorkies, poodles, and one that's boxer's and horrible bred great danes.
As far as the original question, I don't think you should give them $100 UNLESS, they PROVE that they took the dog to a vet, got a FULL veterinary exam, AND vaccinations and worming done BY THE VET. All this total is around $100, and you'd only be paying for the services done, and they wouldn't be really making any money off it the breeding at all.
But then again, you will still be supporting a BYB who planned to breed the dogs anyways. And if she see's that they can get $100 per puppy this time, the next time the dogs are purposely bred, they'll be more inclined to sell the puppies for a higher price, knowing there's a demand for them.
So all in all, no, I would never buy a puppy from these people. There are many rescues with full blooded german shepherds all across almost every state.
Ah, good to know. I think at this point, all of us that actually care can just quit, save ourselves the trouble, and not worry about educating the public on finding REPUTABLE breeders, or choosing a rescue over a BYB or pet store.
While we're at it, we might as well give up on BSL too since, you know, the public will do what they want.
T
I personally would never buy from a breeder again, likely - however in all fairness there is just a few things that would make up my mind:
Are the dogs treated well, seen by a vet regularly, and are puppies raised inside with the family?
Are the parents health tested?
How often do they breed?
IMO, you don't have to be a conformation breeder to be responsible. If breeding is not done too frequently (or too many dogs at a time), if they are health testing, and if they are raising the puppies indoors and socializing them,... is it the best breeder? No. Would I ENCOURAGE anyone to get a pup from a breeder like this? No. But I certainly won't jump on any bandwagon slashing and tearing away at the decision to purchase a pup from a mediocre breeder.
Though truly, beside the BYB and the only few concerns I would have, my biggest concern is how this seems to be an IMPULSE. You see ad for puppies, stop to look, and "OH! I want a puppy!" Perhaps you are already looking for a dog.. but if not.. I'd say wait until it is a logical, clear decision to get a dog, not just a I see, I want situation.
Are the dogs treated well, seen by a vet regularly, and are puppies raised inside with the family?
Are the parents health tested?
How often do they breed?
IMO, you don't have to be a conformation breeder to be responsible. If breeding is not done too frequently (or too many dogs at a time), if they are health testing, and if they are raising the puppies indoors and socializing them,... is it the best breeder? No. Would I ENCOURAGE anyone to get a pup from a breeder like this? No. But I certainly won't jump on any bandwagon slashing and tearing away at the decision to purchase a pup from a mediocre breeder.
Though truly, beside the BYB and the only few concerns I would have, my biggest concern is how this seems to be an IMPULSE. You see ad for puppies, stop to look, and "OH! I want a puppy!" Perhaps you are already looking for a dog.. but if not.. I'd say wait until it is a logical, clear decision to get a dog, not just a I see, I want situation.
I am in total agreement with the above statement bitter.
As much as BYB is looked down upon, and it should be, they are NOT the source of animal over population..............neither are intact dogs running loose. Period. If BYB and loose intact dogs were all we had to contend with, there wouldn't be a population problem at all IMO.
Look up stats all you want, but MILLS are the main source of over population, and the main source of genetic defects being reproduced, and they probably will be now and forever unless some legislation (real, solid, no bull legislation) is introduced to stop them. And that isn't even the worst thing about mills...........we all know it. Sickly animals, tortured animals, animals that never get an ounce of love or compassion their whole lives
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Any dog, now or future, that I own will not be needed to "perform" whether that be correct confirmation, sports, or work. It's not a hobby or interest of mine. So any dog I get would be PET, only pet, and nothing more. That is why I don't give a whoot about titles, ribbons, conformation. I want the dog to be healthy, happy, and loving.
So honest to goodness, if there were a (what most here would consider/call) a BYB that health tested, had happy, healthy, loved parents, I would consider a puppy from them.
Shoot me, it's the way I see it. Now...........the odds/chances of finding a BYB inside those qualifications (health testing) are few and far between. That is exactly the reason I agree that GO should get one of those pups if their parents are tested and he wants one. He's met the parents, they seemed stable and healthy........tests to back it up, GO FOR IT.
As much as BYB is looked down upon, and it should be, they are NOT the source of animal over population..............neither are intact dogs running loose. Period. If BYB and loose intact dogs were all we had to contend with, there wouldn't be a population problem at all IMO.
Look up stats all you want, but MILLS are the main source of over population, and the main source of genetic defects being reproduced, and they probably will be now and forever unless some legislation (real, solid, no bull legislation) is introduced to stop them. And that isn't even the worst thing about mills...........we all know it. Sickly animals, tortured animals, animals that never get an ounce of love or compassion their whole lives
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Any dog, now or future, that I own will not be needed to "perform" whether that be correct confirmation, sports, or work. It's not a hobby or interest of mine. So any dog I get would be PET, only pet, and nothing more. That is why I don't give a whoot about titles, ribbons, conformation. I want the dog to be healthy, happy, and loving.
So honest to goodness, if there were a (what most here would consider/call) a BYB that health tested, had happy, healthy, loved parents, I would consider a puppy from them.
Shoot me, it's the way I see it. Now...........the odds/chances of finding a BYB inside those qualifications (health testing) are few and far between. That is exactly the reason I agree that GO should get one of those pups if their parents are tested and he wants one. He's met the parents, they seemed stable and healthy........tests to back it up, GO FOR IT.
I personally would rather, if I was looking for a loving pet, buy from a breeder who may be classed as a byb but raises their dogs in a home, with love and compassion than the breeder described above....
I agree though, it is hard to find ones who health test and that is important!
Ps... I have not read the whole thread yet, LOL
F
I always said the same thing (though I've never bought from a breeder, but always said I never would). But I came here and realized that there are reputable breeders, like Dekka, with dogs that are fully health tested and compete in sports, and have something to pass down in their genes.
So when I decided I wanted a whippet to do a ton of sports with, I had to decide if I wanted to go to a breeder, which I finally decided to do. But I talked over the breeder with Dekka and Mafia and will continue to ask them questions about it as time gets closer (next litter is end of '10 to early '11). But the breeder I found, in a diff. state, does full health testing, and the breeder dogs do agility, rally, obedience, lure coursing, and have multiple titles behind them, as their does parents and grandparents. Some also do therapy dog work as well, on top of the fact that the dogs have a lifetime guarantee against genetic problems, and the breeder requires that any time in the dogs life, if the owner can no longer keep it, it must go back to the breeder.
THAT is what makes a good breeder, and is the type of breeder that should be supported. And as I have learned from here, it is this type of breeder that is NOT a part of the overpopulation problem. My view used to not be that way, but I came here and got edumahkated.
So when I decided I wanted a whippet to do a ton of sports with, I had to decide if I wanted to go to a breeder, which I finally decided to do. But I talked over the breeder with Dekka and Mafia and will continue to ask them questions about it as time gets closer (next litter is end of '10 to early '11). But the breeder I found, in a diff. state, does full health testing, and the breeder dogs do agility, rally, obedience, lure coursing, and have multiple titles behind them, as their does parents and grandparents. Some also do therapy dog work as well, on top of the fact that the dogs have a lifetime guarantee against genetic problems, and the breeder requires that any time in the dogs life, if the owner can no longer keep it, it must go back to the breeder.
THAT is what makes a good breeder, and is the type of breeder that should be supported. And as I have learned from here, it is this type of breeder that is NOT a part of the overpopulation problem. My view used to not be that way, but I came here and got edumahkated.
T
It isn't that I don't understand that there are excellent, reputable breeders out there, it is that I'm a rescue fanatic. I don't see any need in me ever purchasing a puppy from an expensive breeder for many reasons: 1)I adore senior dogs. Puppies are cute, but I prefer adopting adult dogs. 2)I've went down the excellent breeder road. I've got an extremely healthy dog that we've never had any heartache with medical problems,.. I love him, but there just is no real emotional bond and sense of having done a good thing. I got him for my own selfish wants to have a show dog, not to be selfless and help save a life. 3)AGain, been down that road, I've competed in conformation for years.. I did very well in it, but .. well, just don't see the point. I'd rather be out saving dogs than winning ribbons and boosting my own ego. For me, there is just no real *heart* in purchasing a puppy. I'd take an old, broken, damaged dog anyday. Just my own personal decision. Doesn't mean I look down upon those that do purchase from reputable breeders, doens't mean I think all breeders contribute to overpopulation.. just means I love dogs, especially those that need love the most - the ones that have been dumped and discarded and trash and in need of a miracle to save their life.
I live in the south, and we have a massive overpopulation problem, and it almost all stems from BYB's (as we have puppymills, but much fewer than the north). The pound in Baton Rouge awhile back was euthanizing, on average, 250 dogs a WEEK. That's 1,000 dogs a month. In 2008, Baton Route released statistics that the humane society just in BR euthanized almost 11,000 dogs and cats.
Down here, BYB's are a massive problem, and I am associated with many of them. Not as a buyer, but as a volunteer who takes in their 'useless' breeder dogs who are no longer of use, and re-homes them after speutering, vax, dentals, ect. And it's all breed of dogs, there's one thats a husky breeder, yorkies, poodles, and one that's boxer's and horrible bred great danes.
As far as the original question, I don't think you should give them $100 UNLESS, they PROVE that they took the dog to a vet, got a FULL veterinary exam, AND vaccinations and worming done BY THE VET. All this total is around $100, and you'd only be paying for the services done, and they wouldn't be really making any money off it the breeding at all.
But then again, you will still be supporting a BYB who planned to breed the dogs anyways. And if she see's that they can get $100 per puppy this time, the next time the dogs are purposely bred, they'll be more inclined to sell the puppies for a higher price, knowing there's a demand for them.
So all in all, no, I would never buy a puppy from these people. There are many rescues with full blooded german shepherds all across almost every state.
Ah, good to know. I think at this point, all of us that actually care can just quit, save ourselves the trouble, and not worry about educating the public on finding REPUTABLE breeders, or choosing a rescue over a BYB or pet store.
While we're at it, we might as well give up on BSL too since, you know, the public will do what they want.
Down here, BYB's are a massive problem, and I am associated with many of them. Not as a buyer, but as a volunteer who takes in their 'useless' breeder dogs who are no longer of use, and re-homes them after speutering, vax, dentals, ect. And it's all breed of dogs, there's one thats a husky breeder, yorkies, poodles, and one that's boxer's and horrible bred great danes.
As far as the original question, I don't think you should give them $100 UNLESS, they PROVE that they took the dog to a vet, got a FULL veterinary exam, AND vaccinations and worming done BY THE VET. All this total is around $100, and you'd only be paying for the services done, and they wouldn't be really making any money off it the breeding at all.
But then again, you will still be supporting a BYB who planned to breed the dogs anyways. And if she see's that they can get $100 per puppy this time, the next time the dogs are purposely bred, they'll be more inclined to sell the puppies for a higher price, knowing there's a demand for them.
So all in all, no, I would never buy a puppy from these people. There are many rescues with full blooded german shepherds all across almost every state.
Ah, good to know. I think at this point, all of us that actually care can just quit, save ourselves the trouble, and not worry about educating the public on finding REPUTABLE breeders, or choosing a rescue over a BYB or pet store.
While we're at it, we might as well give up on BSL too since, you know, the public will do what they want.
That bolded part, ya, I don't consider any who do that a BYB...........I call that a puppy mill, puppy farm, commercial breeder, take your pick.
I guess in my mind a backyard breeder breeds the family pets, or even two dogs they feel are "worthy" (whether they are or not is not my debate at the moment) The term "BYB" to me means the mating pair is not a sole source of income, but may or may not supplement that income on occasion. Heck, they may not even be breeding for the money, it might be for other reasons (again, the reasons good or bad are not what I am debating at the moment)
A person or people who toss away a "useless" breeder sounds more like a farm to me, they have to keep that gravy train rolling and need good breeders to do so. BYB to me is not so much a business, but more like a hobby...........whether they are going about it the right way or wrong way.
Keep in mind that a puppy mill does NOT need to be huge and have bad conditions..........to me a puppy mill defines a place that cranks out a certain number per year. That doesn't mean Rover and Spot having one litter every year, I mean SEVERAL (or many more) breeding pairs and puppies coming and going constantly. They are handed over to the person with cash with no regards as to where that pup will actually end up.
I just wanted to let that be known. So to wrap up this long winded post,
Mill = more than 10-15 puppies a year, EVERY YEAR. You can find these pups anywhere, it need not be a petstore. I recently read an article stating Mills in the US put out over 1/2 million pups PER YEAR
And the sad part is, THOSE are the reported/registered puppies.............how many MORE are there besides?I would also like to reiterate, I DO NOT SUPPORT OR AGREE WITH EITHER ONE..........BYB AND MILLS ARE BOTH BAD IMO. BUT, there are different types of BYB, and sometimes what one person would call BYB another may not.
F
Possibly so Acoop. A couple that I refer to as BYB have about 10-15 breeding dogs. Some I do refer to as mills, as I say Callie, Gracie, Rosie and Mattie came from a mill because she had, at one time, 400 breeding PAIRS, or about 800 dachshunds. She was a mill, thru and thru.
But I also believe a BYB is, as you said, someone who think's it's okay to breed mittens and rover because they'll make 'koot baybeeee's!!'.
But I also believe a BYB is, as you said, someone who think's it's okay to breed mittens and rover because they'll make 'koot baybeeee's!!'.
F
Yeah, she lived in a run down trailer in the woods on a bunch of property. The dogs lived in kennels stacked up, and she had one set of runs -- 8 runs total, in which her 'best' breeders were crammed into about 15-20 dogs per run.
She hauled ass out of the state last year, and bought a BIGGER piece of property and tons more kennels to 'expand' her breeding business, after the heat started building up on her from the local humane society in the town (not my town).
She hauled ass out of the state last year, and bought a BIGGER piece of property and tons more kennels to 'expand' her breeding business, after the heat started building up on her from the local humane society in the town (not my town).
