Are PCs cooler than Macs?

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#81
Since I'm so computer challenged anyhow, no matter how smart a computer is, what do you mean by Macs dumbing down? Can you give some examples in the most simplistic way? I always heard they were so great and user friendly. My sister LOVES hers. But she's definitely one of those status symbol types...in the biggest way. She and I are 180 degrees opposite that way. Maybe she doesn't even know why she loves hers really. :rolleyes:
Im going to preface this with this: My knowledge of Macs is limited, so the following is my understanding and limited experience. If Im incorrect on anything I hope a Mac owner will correct any misconceptions I have.

With Macs there is one way to do things, Macs way. Anything to be installed on Macs is approved by Mac, anything else is outside of the Mac EULA. The purpose of this is to make things easier for the end user, follow the steps lined out by Mac and everything should just work. When they dont work even the Mac Geniuses have issues getting them to work correctly. There is nothing smart or intuitive about it.

Most Mac users either want them to just work. The less common Mac users want them to do what they excel at, photo, audio, and video editing.

Then there are Windows users who use Mac peripherals like the Airport. There is only one way to configure an Airport and it requires Mac Airport Utility. You cant simply log into it with a web browser like almost any other router on the consumer market and check or change the settings.

Having a piece of equipment "just work" doesnt make one smarter.

The smugness, smarter attitude comes from Macs are a small part of the market that just work most of the time, without having to actually do anything. Its like Mercedes drivers thinking they are better drivers then Ford owners because fewer people can afford a Mercedes.

Macs arent as big of a target for those writing viruses and malware, but Mac owners are still susceptible to social attacks. I predict the social attacks geared towards Mac owners is going to increase because they are an easier target.
 

Puckstop31

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#82
Open source is the future.
I disagree, a whole bunch. Often, when we go 'a sellin', we get the odd client who read that "open source is the future" in some magazine. Then we describe to them the huge challenge it would be to simply get on a Open Source platform... Then there are the support costs.... It IS Open Source afterall, so there is no real standards. Open Source is a NIGHTMARE to support, unless you can afford to have a stable of geeks (who know your particular manifestation of an OS platform) at hand.

Open Source (like a WHOLE bunch of other ideas out there....;) ) sounds like a fantastic idea to the "screw the man" kind of crowd. But where the $$$ meets the road, its a non-starter.

Think about it... What company is going to invest the HUGE $$$ that would be necesary to go to a OS platform? I'm not talking about software costs, that is the simple part. The PEOPLE costs are off the chart with OS migrations.


Apple is starting to get it too... The next OS X release (10.7? Lion?) is supposed to have all of the Mac Server stuff built in. THERE is a good business idea. I actually have some clients waiting for it. I cna build a 'small' server to host iChat traffic or something, all on a little Mini now if I want to.


Its ALL about the Benjamins. LOL
 

Fran101

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#83
I think with the Macs available for rent/sold on my campus as well as the on-site apple genius and the free itouch AND the college student discount.... there really is no question that regardless of it being a "better" computer or not, they sure have better marketing techniques and they sure are easier to own.

Not saying this makes them "better" or "cooler" but its certainly not hard to see why 99.9% of college students at my school have macs.

If other computers offered some of this stuff (college student discounts, genius bars for EASY SIMPLE HELP with a PERSON, on campus locations etc..) I might consider them(lol probably not).. but for now the choice was very simple

I love my Mac, will very likely never own anything but macs . Other people love PCs... lol its like trying to argue which car is the best, obviously there is no RIGHT answer because it depends on your needs/environment.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Laurelin

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#84
Honestly, I haven't had any issues with the 'geniuses' (that still cracks me up) not being able to help or fix my computer.

Yeah, I don't get the debate either. I have a mac because I've had good luck with them and they work well for what I want to use it for. Simple as that.
 

Doberluv

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#85
Thanks for all the discussion. Some of it clears things up for me and some still sounds like Greek. But of course, that's just me and my limited understanding of computer speak. LOL. I can see though, that something like this would be personal preference and that each caters a little differently to individual needs.
 
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#86
I disagree, a whole bunch. Often, when we go 'a sellin', we get the odd client who read that "open source is the future" in some magazine. Then we describe to them the huge challenge it would be to simply get on a Open Source platform... Then there are the support costs.... It IS Open Source afterall, so there is no real standards. Open Source is a NIGHTMARE to support, unless you can afford to have a stable of geeks (who know your particular manifestation of an OS platform) at hand.

Its ALL about the Benjamins. LOL
Red Hat has been around since 1993. Im not sure how long Canonical has been around. Both provide paid support for Open Source OS. I can see how it would be a nightmare for you to be a middle man if your company doesnt have certified techs. It would also **** off your clients if they had to deal with a second level of support.

Open Source does have standards, something Microsoft and Apple do not. M$ and Apple do what they want and do what they can to block open source. Novell is another supporter of the Open Source movement.

I think with the Macs available for rent/sold on my campus as well as the on-site apple genius and the free itouch AND the college student discount.... there really is no question that regardless of it being a "better" computer or not, they sure have better marketing techniques and they sure are easier to own..
How much does it cost to rent a Mac book? How much of a discount do students get when purchasing a a Mac

The Google Chromebooks hit the market in June. Its $20 a month for students and from my perspective it is a rip off.

Easier to own gives credit to my dumbing down of the Operating System statement. The Google OS is the next Mac OS, a further dumbing down of users.
 

Fran101

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#87
Renting them is free from the library, Mac donated quite a few and they are free as long as you get them checked every month and then re-rent if there is nobody waiting (which there never is since most students have their own..)

and personally,I don't agree with it "dumbing down" users.
Just because the smart choice is also the easy choice doesn't make this a "ZOMG DUMBING DOWN USERS!! CONSPIRACY!! THE MAN!!" issue lol but to each their own, nobody is forcing you to own one.
If somebody wanted to come to school and do all that extra work to own another kind of PC than all power to them, but I certainly don't think they'd be any smarter than anyone else who chooses to just go the easy way and save themselves the hassle.

I don't own a mac just because its easy to own one in the campus environment, its a plus, but I would love and own Macs even if all the extra perks didn't make it easier... I love my computer. I don't think its the best computer for everyone but for me, it's perfect.
 
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#88
why would a company build a computer to fit the specs of a computer professional, when the masses need a computer that does a few things well and easily?

if you want to call it dumbing down go ahead, or it could just be good business sense.
 

Kat09Tails

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#89
Not that I'm this much of a hippie but I don't own a Mac, and will likely never own a I- anything again (we had a Mac os1) so long as Macintosh continues to use their current labor practices. There are lots of other companies that are just as bad and they don't get my business either.
 
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#90
Im going to preface this with this: My knowledge of Macs is limited, so the following is my understanding and limited experience. If Im incorrect on anything I hope a Mac owner will correct any misconceptions I have.

With Macs there is one way to do things, Macs way. Anything to be installed on Macs is approved by Mac, anything else is outside of the Mac EULA. The purpose of this is to make things easier for the end user, follow the steps lined out by Mac and everything should just work. When they dont work even the Mac Geniuses have issues getting them to work correctly. There is nothing smart or intuitive about it.
Incorrect. I can install anything on my macs that I want, so long as they're compatible with the o/s. When you get to iPhones and iPads, that's when you run into the 'walled garden' and the need to jailbreak...if you're so inclined.

Most Mac users either want them to just work. The less common Mac users want them to do what they excel at, photo, audio, and video editing.
Likely true. Having said that, being good to go on a consumer level for either of those three has it's appeal. Having logic/final cut as industry standards in music and video is pretty compelling if that's your interest (and Aperture's a very good DAM for photography at a more advanced level).

Then there are Windows users who use Mac peripherals like the Airport. There is only one way to configure an Airport and it requires Mac Airport Utility. You cant simply log into it with a web browser like almost any other router on the consumer market and check or change the settings.
I can't speak to the airport express, but I suspect it's not too different from my airport extreme in that I can go in and tweak anything I want to through the airport utility. In fact I had to go into some of those settings to get my NAS up and running for accessing it from outside my home network (pretty painless). I've also had no problems getting our windows PC running through it or my office lap-top for that matter.

Having a piece of equipment "just work" doesnt make one smarter.

The smugness, smarter attitude comes from Macs are a small part of the market that just work most of the time, without having to actually do anything. Its like Mercedes drivers thinking they are better drivers then Ford owners because fewer people can afford a Mercedes.
I agree that a piece of equipment doesn't make anyone smarter. It's how you use it that matters.

Macs have their place, as do windows machines. Using Numbers when excel is available? I'll take excel. Using Access to write sql queries is a pain in the arse so I use DB2 connect as much as possible - in both cases (access/db2 connect), windows is the os that allows me the use of these. My job would be painful if I was using os/x as my OS because the tools either suck or don't exist on that platform.

On the flip-side, for home browsing I'll go to my macbook pro every time for the fact apple has the very best track-pad I've ever used (complete with the gestures). Their software is solid and I'm not lacking for anything. It's a complete package that doesn't just work, it's a pleasure to work with.

As for reliability, I've had two windows towers for home use and they were rock-solid (just painfully out of date now). I've had to wipe/reload the one tower a couple of times due to viruses, but it's an easy process. On the mac side, I've had one hard-drive fail in my 2007 macbook, and the reload when I installed the new drive was just as easy. My MBP has been through 10000km of harsh abuse and many terrabytes of transfers back and forth between external storage and back and is still taking a beating with no complaints or slow-downs.
Macs arent as big of a target for those writing viruses and malware, but Mac owners are still susceptible to social attacks. I predict the social attacks geared towards Mac owners is going to increase because they are an easier target.
This is true. Having said that, the 'mac is less secure' thing you mentioned earlier is contrary to most of what I've read in the past. I suspect we won't find out one way or the other because I've only heard of one successful mac virus in the wild (which was distributed through pirated versions of PS) and there is a much bigger target for viruses (windows) to entertain those who write viruses and malware. Suits me fine....I haven't had to bog down my macs with AV software yet.

When it's all said and done though, if it works (windows, linux or mac) for what you want it to do, that's all that really matters. They're computers - not religion.

Cheers :)
 

CaliTerp07

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#91
I disagree, a whole bunch. Often, when we go 'a sellin', we get the odd client who read that "open source is the future" in some magazine. Then we describe to them the huge challenge it would be to simply get on a Open Source platform... Then there are the support costs.... It IS Open Source afterall, so there is no real standards. Open Source is a NIGHTMARE to support, unless you can afford to have a stable of geeks (who know your particular manifestation of an OS platform) at hand.

Open Source (like a WHOLE bunch of other ideas out there....;) ) sounds like a fantastic idea to the "screw the man" kind of crowd. But where the $$$ meets the road, its a non-starter.

Think about it... What company is going to invest the HUGE $$$ that would be necesary to go to a OS platform? I'm not talking about software costs, that is the simple part. The PEOPLE costs are off the chart with OS migrations.


Apple is starting to get it too... The next OS X release (10.7? Lion?) is supposed to have all of the Mac Server stuff built in. THERE is a good business idea. I actually have some clients waiting for it. I cna build a 'small' server to host iChat traffic or something, all on a little Mini now if I want to.


Its ALL about the Benjamins. LOL
My husband's entire group of consultants at his company is all focused on open source. People are definitely investing in it. He's currently installing/writing/supporting open source programs for the Navy, DISA, DFAS, and DLA. Maybe it's just a federal government thing (he doesn't work with commercial clients).

It's not a platform (yet), but they're running all their reports and procurement systems off open source software. He's been going to meetings at all kinds of agencies about how they want to use more and more open source stuff.
 

GipsyQueen

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#93
I have an iMac, a PC laptop, a Macbook, an iPod, and an Android phone. Apparently I'm just confused. :p
Same. :rofl1: Except I don't own a macbook or Imac. My desktop runs linux, I have a windows PC, Android phone and an Ipod.

I can't afford to own a mac, so I don't own a mac. :p I don't see the point on owning a computer that costs 1000, no 999€ and upwards, when I can get a PC with much better specs for 600-800€.
Its like that commercial (No idea if its run in the states.) If you don't have an Iphone... then you don't have an Iphone. My phone does the same thing, why on EARTH should I feel compelled to spend like 6-700€ on a PHONE when mine does the same things?
 

CharlieDog

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#94
I have to say I LOVE Android. I have an Android phone, an iPhone and an Acer PC. :p I guess I'm confused to, but for all intents and purposes, I wish I could have Android on my computer, and the iPhone is for PocketFrogs and the much better music integration system.
 

GipsyQueen

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#95
I have to say I LOVE Android. I have an Android phone, an iPhone and an Acer PC. :p I guess I'm confused to, but for all intents and purposes, I wish I could have Android on my computer, and the iPhone is for PocketFrogs and the much better music integration system.
I don't get why they don't have android PCs. I LOVE Android. I LOVE my phone. Im SOO incredibly glad I got this phone. :eek:
 
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#97
To start I have to apologize, I did not mean dumbing down the "user". I meant dumbing down the OS. Did not mean to offend anybody.

and personally,I don't agree with it "dumbing down" users.
Just because the smart choice is also the easy choice doesn't make this a "ZOMG DUMBING DOWN USERS!! CONSPIRACY!! THE MAN!!" issue lol but to each their own, nobody is forcing you to own one.
If somebody wanted to come to school and do all that extra work to own another kind of PC than all power to them, but I certainly don't think they'd be any smarter than anyone else who chooses to just go the easy way and save themselves the hassle.

I don't own a mac just because its easy to own one in the campus environment, its a plus, but I would love and own Macs even if all the extra perks didn't make it easier... I love my computer. I don't think its the best computer for everyone but for me, it's perfect.
Smart choice for who? Not me. I didnt mean to offend you but I also never called it a conspiracy. Im also not susceptible to a slick marketing campaign.

Im positive I could bring my laptop to your campus and have no hassle using it. For you Macs are perfect but I like to do what I want with things I own and not limit myself to a closed system.

Incorrect. I can install anything on my macs that I want, so long as they're compatible with the o/s. When you get to iPhones and iPads, that's when you run into the 'walled garden' and the need to jailbreak...if you're so inclined.
Any software marketed for Mac's is approved of by Mac, same way Apps for iOS are approved for the iPhone iPad.

Likely true. Having said that, being good to go on a consumer level for either of those three has it's appeal. Having logic/final cut as industry standards in music and video is pretty compelling if that's your interest (and Aperture's a very good DAM for photography at a more advanced level).
A good friend of mine is a Mac guru with image manipulation, Ive seen him run circles around trained Photoshop users.

I can't speak to the airport express, but I suspect it's not too different from my airport extreme in that I can go in and tweak anything I want to through the airport utility. In fact I had to go into some of those settings to get my NAS up and running for accessing it from outside my home network (pretty painless). I've also had no problems getting our windows PC running through it or my office lap-top for that matter.
My issue with Airports, any of them, is that you cannot configure them without the Utility, there is no web interface for them. They are also the most problem prone router my ISP deals with. I would be highly interest to know how to access them from outside the network.

Macs have their place, as do windows machines. Using Numbers when excel is available? I'll take excel. Using Access to write sql queries is a pain in the arse so I use DB2 connect as much as possible - in both cases (access/db2 connect), windows is the os that allows me the use of these. My job would be painful if I was using os/x as my OS because the tools either suck or don't exist on that platform.
Mac's absolutely have their place, with the examples you give or users who dont have the desire to tweak their machine and just expect them to work.

On the flip-side, for home browsing I'll go to my macbook pro every time for the fact apple has the very best track-pad I've ever used (complete with the gestures). Their software is solid and I'm not lacking for anything. It's a complete package that doesn't just work, it's a pleasure to work with.
I cant argue with any of that. For myself I prefer a system I can tweak, have some freedom with.

As for reliability, I've had two windows towers for home use and they were rock-solid (just painfully out of date now). I've had to wipe/reload the one tower a couple of times due to viruses, but it's an easy process. On the mac side, I've had one hard-drive fail in my 2007 macbook, and the reload when I installed the new drive was just as easy. My MBP has been through 10000km of harsh abuse and many terrabytes of transfers back and forth between external storage and back and is still taking a beating with no complaints or slow-downs.
The slow downs in Windows is one of the reasons I left it behind, that is one definite plus for the Mac OS. The other reason is Linux offers so much more the anything Microsoft offers. My XP install image with SP3 is about the same size as SP3. Also when I used Windows I kept everything on my server, that made wipe and reloads very easy. My desktops and server dont suffer the M$ slowdown anymore and my system sees alot of traffic for only 1 person here.

This is true. Having said that, the 'mac is less secure' thing you mentioned earlier is contrary to most of what I've read in the past. I suspect we won't find out one way or the other because I've only heard of one successful mac virus in the wild (which was distributed through pirated versions of PS) and there is a much bigger target for viruses (windows) to entertain those who write viruses and malware. Suits me fine....I haven't had to bog down my macs with AV software yet.
Almost every Security contest the Mac's fall first. Safari is still a very insecure browser to use out of the box. Actually if memory serves correctly, the most successful Mac virus was spread through IRC. PCWorld reported over 5000 strains of malware targeting MAcs in 2010. The only reason for Mac or Linux machines to have any AV is if you dont want to forward virus and malware to your friends and family through emails.

When it's all said and done though, if it works (windows, linux or mac) for what you want it to do, that's all that really matters. They're computers - not religion.
I know users of all three for whom it absolutely is a religion, but I agree with you. If it works for you and does what you need doing, use it.
 
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#98
Any software marketed for Mac's is approved of by Mac, same way Apps for iOS are approved for the iPhone iPad..
Where are you getting this from?

Software for macs are no different in their acquisition than they are for windows. Are you referring to the new mac 'app store'? - if that's the case, then I see where you're coming from. However, for software distributed outside of that, there's no approval nessessary. The approval is for that specific channel of distribution.

My issue with Airports, any of them, is that you cannot configure them without the Utility, there is no web interface for them. They are also the most problem prone router my ISP deals with. I would be highly interest to know how to access them from outside the network.
I can't speak to any ISP reports on the airports, but from personal experience, they're just as easy to work with as anything else out there. True, you do need the utility if you're not on a mac (on a mac, it's built in), but honestly, your browser is acting in that capacity when you're working on any other router.

As for adjusting router settings from a remote location....I honestly haven't tried and am not really all that curious about it, so I can't help you out there.
Mac's absolutely have their place, with the examples you give or users who dont have the desire to tweak their machine and just expect them to work.
Just so we're speaking the same language, what tweaking are you referring to? Performance tweaking?

Almost every Security contest the Mac's fall first. Safari is still a very insecure browser to use out of the box. Actually if memory serves correctly, the most successful Mac virus was spread through IRC. PCWorld reported over 5000 strains of malware targeting MAcs in 2010. The only reason for Mac or Linux machines to have any AV is if you dont want to forward virus and malware to your friends and family through emails..
If I recall correctly, the same issue came up last time around through Safari as well. It was short-lived, with a patch put in place soon after. The real test will be whether Apple gets a patch in place in a timely manner this time around.

You're also not limited to just the one browser (firefox & chrome are fine to work with).

As for 5000 strains of malware targeting macs, how many are actually in the wild?

On the flip side of that, apparently there is another virus/malware out there called macdefender which is causing grief. Like anything else though, the user has to consent to installing it first (meaning the mac crowd is just as susceptible to looking at a name and clicking 'okay' as anyone else out there).


I know users of all three for whom it absolutely is a religion, but I agree with you. If it works for you and does what you need doing, use it.
Now here's the big question: I think you said you used Ubuntu (?) ealier....what's the minimum system requirements for this? I've got an old tower and I wouldn't mind trying out linux.

Thanks! :)
 
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#99
Where are you getting this from?

Software for macs are no different in their acquisition than they are for windows. Are you referring to the new mac 'app store'? - if that's the case, then I see where you're coming from. However, for software distributed outside of that, there's no approval nessessary. The approval is for that specific channel of distribution.

Its part of Macs business plan. Its also part of their marketing plan.

I can't speak to any ISP reports on the airports, but from personal experience, they're just as easy to work with as anything else out there. True, you do need the utility if you're not on a mac (on a mac, it's built in), but honestly, your browser is acting in that capacity when you're working on any other router.
My personal and professional experience with Airports, makes them the most problematic router to deal with. I would rather log into any router on the market and change the settings using a browser rather then using a proprietary user interface.

As for adjusting router settings from a remote location....I honestly haven't tried and am not really all that curious about it, so I can't help you out there.
This,

In fact I had to go into some of those settings to get my NAS up and running for accessing it from outside my home network (pretty painless)
indicated you had already done it.

Just so we're speaking the same language, what tweaking are you referring to? Performance tweaking?
For starters the Desktop Environments. For my current systems I can think of 5 I can install, use and remove at my whim.

If I recall correctly, the same issue came up last time around through Safari as well. It was short-lived, with a patch put in place soon after. The real test will be whether Apple gets a patch in place in a timely manner this time around.
The current versions of malware attacking Mac systems take advantage of Safari's insecurities.

You're also not limited to just the one browser (firefox & chrome are fine to work with).
I prefer and recommend Opera as a browser. IE, Safari, Firefox and Chrome I find annoying.

As for 5000 strains of malware targeting macs, how many are actually in the wild?
As of April of this year the number was 3000+. With all the new infections cropping up Im sure that number has grown.

On the flip side of that, apparently there is another virus/malware out there called macdefender which is causing grief. Like anything else though, the user has to consent to installing it first (meaning the mac crowd is just as susceptible to looking at a name and clicking 'okay' as anyone else out there).
The reports Ive seen, all the user has to do is click on the window, including the close window button.

Now here's the big question: I think you said you used Ubuntu (?) ealier....what's the minimum system requirements for this? I've got an old tower and I wouldn't mind trying out linux.

Thanks! :)
My main desktop is a Dell Dimension 4600 running Ubuntu 10.10 desktop. Its vintage 2003 and works very well. My other PCs have Ubuntu Server installed and use minimal Gnome Desktops for a GUI.

You could download Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and run it from a CD or USB to see how well it will work with your system. I didnt like 11.04 Ubuntu, Ill try it again when 11.10 is released. YOu could also try Mint Linux as well the same way.
 

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I only use Mac. Since I switched several years back I have not had to replace any computer, I have not had any viruses, and I am a super happy happy person! Mac all the way!
 

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