Service Dog (Assistance Dog): Advice, input, sources needed
- Thread starter Miakoda
- Start date
Yes, I have chosen a Rottweiler from a wonderful reputable owner breeder. I wanted to stack as many odds in our favor, so that's why I kept holding out on various other dogs/breeds. The pup will come from a very long and strong lineage of health-tested and titled dogs, including but not limited to conformation, obedience, therapy work, etc.
I know about Rotties, not only having owned one in the past, but also through years of reading/research and handling them through my experience as a vet tech. I've seen the good, the bad, and the worst of the worst. And now I'll get to experience the great.
I understand some people's apprehension, and as a long-time APBT and "pit bull" owner, I'm all too familiar with general public perception and the assumptions they carry with them. Seeing as how I titled two former dogs through TDI, I'm also aware of the discrimination even when trying to do good with the dogs.
But none of that has ever changed my mind. I'm not one to sway to human persuasion based on assumptions and beliefs of others. I will not be swayed to go the route of Labrador or Golden Retriever or Whackadoodle. They are not breeds I enjoy, nor even like very much. And seing as how I've owned them (2 field bred Labs, one of which was a great duck dog while the other was a hyperactive ornery pain in the rear even until 14 years old), as well as been around them via friends and also through my experience as a vet tech, I can firmly stand by my decision to not use those breeds. And honestly, I think the breeds in general have been over-glorified so much, that people do not look at the big picture that these breeds, too, are victims of backyard breeding, resulting in crappy temperaments, unstable dogs, and overall poorly put together dogs. And they also have teeth and do use them.
I'm trying to explain all this in a very neutral tone, so as to not offend anyone. I'm really not sure how to get it across that I understand what I'm asking/requiring of said dog and that I have indeed done my research. I'm not just buying a cute little ball of fluff from junkyard dog parents all so I can have a "unique" service dog. I don't work that way. Period.
Rottweilers have been used and are currently used as assistance dogs. Sure, they are different in a sense, but every breed is different from the next. But at the end of the day, every single dog must pass the same strict obedience tasks and prove themselves capable, so why is it ok to continue to discriminate against one who has prooved itself equal (if not better) than the next?
As for emergency situations and emergency personnel, well, Cole will be 10. I'm not turning he and the dog loose on the town. If there is a major situation, I will be right there. I highly doubt the dog would become aggressively protective (most stable dogs are perfectly capable of differentiating between a threat and non-threat), but if it should, I'm right there holding the leash. And truly, one never knows how ANY dog will react in such a situation until the situation presents itself. But I think I will involve my police friends and firemen/EMT family members in the training and go through such a scenario.
And let's face it: Many people on this forum have dogs in environments and/or doing work/jobs that just seem like an "odd" match. I've also seen how some go to great lengths to accommodate the dog and make sure the dog is well-adjusted, well exercised, happy, and set up for success, so who am I to really complain ?
I know about Rotties, not only having owned one in the past, but also through years of reading/research and handling them through my experience as a vet tech. I've seen the good, the bad, and the worst of the worst. And now I'll get to experience the great.
I understand some people's apprehension, and as a long-time APBT and "pit bull" owner, I'm all too familiar with general public perception and the assumptions they carry with them. Seeing as how I titled two former dogs through TDI, I'm also aware of the discrimination even when trying to do good with the dogs.
But none of that has ever changed my mind. I'm not one to sway to human persuasion based on assumptions and beliefs of others. I will not be swayed to go the route of Labrador or Golden Retriever or Whackadoodle. They are not breeds I enjoy, nor even like very much. And seing as how I've owned them (2 field bred Labs, one of which was a great duck dog while the other was a hyperactive ornery pain in the rear even until 14 years old), as well as been around them via friends and also through my experience as a vet tech, I can firmly stand by my decision to not use those breeds. And honestly, I think the breeds in general have been over-glorified so much, that people do not look at the big picture that these breeds, too, are victims of backyard breeding, resulting in crappy temperaments, unstable dogs, and overall poorly put together dogs. And they also have teeth and do use them.
I'm trying to explain all this in a very neutral tone, so as to not offend anyone. I'm really not sure how to get it across that I understand what I'm asking/requiring of said dog and that I have indeed done my research. I'm not just buying a cute little ball of fluff from junkyard dog parents all so I can have a "unique" service dog. I don't work that way. Period.
Rottweilers have been used and are currently used as assistance dogs. Sure, they are different in a sense, but every breed is different from the next. But at the end of the day, every single dog must pass the same strict obedience tasks and prove themselves capable, so why is it ok to continue to discriminate against one who has prooved itself equal (if not better) than the next?
As for emergency situations and emergency personnel, well, Cole will be 10. I'm not turning he and the dog loose on the town. If there is a major situation, I will be right there. I highly doubt the dog would become aggressively protective (most stable dogs are perfectly capable of differentiating between a threat and non-threat), but if it should, I'm right there holding the leash. And truly, one never knows how ANY dog will react in such a situation until the situation presents itself. But I think I will involve my police friends and firemen/EMT family members in the training and go through such a scenario.
And let's face it: Many people on this forum have dogs in environments and/or doing work/jobs that just seem like an "odd" match. I've also seen how some go to great lengths to accommodate the dog and make sure the dog is well-adjusted, well exercised, happy, and set up for success, so who am I to really complain ?
But I also want to say that I do appreciate all the replies and advice. I love being able to talk through things in a mature manner, which most have been able to do. By doing so, it creates informative threads that can benefit others than those who directly participated. 
I personally think a Rottie from a reputable breeder would be a great choice. But that's just me. I mean...GSDs were used as service dogs...and I don't see them as being less protective than a Rottie. The guide dog organization I raised Sadie for said they were steering away from shepherds due to horrible structure/hips on most of the donated pups.
Now with that being said...I'm leaving the conversation as I have nothing relevant to add. Lol
I mean...GSDs were used as service dogs...and I don't see them as being less protective than a Rottie. The guide dog organization I raised Sadie for said they were steering away from shepherds due to horrible structure/hips on most of the donated pups. Now with that being said...I'm leaving the conversation as I have nothing relevant to add. Lol
I personally think a Rottie from a reputable breeder would be a great choice. But that's just me. I mean...GSDs were used as service dogs...and I don't see them as being less protective than a Rottie. The guide dog organization I raised Sadie for said they were steering away from shepherds due to horrible structure/hips on most of the donated pups.
Now with that being said...I'm leaving the conversation as I have nothing relevant to add. Lol
I mean...GSDs were used as service dogs...and I don't see them as being less protective than a Rottie. The guide dog organization I raised Sadie for said they were steering away from shepherds due to horrible structure/hips on most of the donated pups. Now with that being said...I'm leaving the conversation as I have nothing relevant to add. Lol
Goldens from SD lines tend to be low energy, barely birdy at all. GSD from SD lines are similar in that they are less protective, lower energy.
So it's true that GSD's are used as service dogs, but very few of them are from working/show lines.
And you're going to pay $10,000+ for such a specifically bred service dog with basic obedience (specific task training begins after purchase). I don't exactly have an extra $10,000 just lying around. As it is, this pup will be a financial stretch in terms of initial up-front costs. We can afford it, but I'm going to be using my Thirty-One and Scentsy businesses to try and offset the cost out of our regular bank account.
And not all service dog organizations health test. It seems a few have become
comfortable and satisfied with what they produce, and there's no way bad hips, bad elbows, cardiac, or eye issues can occur.
And not all service dog organizations health test. It seems a few have become
comfortable and satisfied with what they produce, and there's no way bad hips, bad elbows, cardiac, or eye issues can occur.
Eh...you may need to disregard my reply directly above. I misconstrued what was being said, which, as I understand it now to be, is a simple statement regarding high-drive working dogs versus their milder bred-for-other-reasons counterparts.
That being said, I spoke with Suzanne Clothier who breeds Service Dog GSD's. The cost was similar to working/show line GSD's. Granted there's a wait list years long.
You can probably find reasonably priced litters with temperament designed for SD's.
And lastly, most of the best SD agencies are run off donations. So the good ones are mostly all free, which is significantly cheaper than a puppy
EDIT: I'm not discouraging you from training your own, I'm just adding all the possible factors that may or may not have been considered.
I'd be wary of anyone, SD "breeder" or otherwise, charging 10k for a pup.
Anyways! I think rotties are a fine choice, they're a wonderful breed. I don't think you'd run into much trouble on the EMT front because, as you said, he'll still be a youngster and you'll be with him.
However, it may be a good idea (for socialization's sake) to get him used to the EMTs doing their thing, and introduce him, yourself, and Cole to the EMTs so he is familiar with them should anything occur.
Anyways! I think rotties are a fine choice, they're a wonderful breed. I don't think you'd run into much trouble on the EMT front because, as you said, he'll still be a youngster and you'll be with him.
However, it may be a good idea (for socialization's sake) to get him used to the EMTs doing their thing, and introduce him, yourself, and Cole to the EMTs so he is familiar with them should anything occur.
It's a bit different with some organizations. From the small pool of reputable organizations that I know of, that 10k is for a 2 year old dog that's spent its life being prepared for service work.
Mia, I think a rottie is an excellent choice. I grew up with them and they're absolutely wonderful dogs. I don't know of any rottie SDs at the moment, but I can picture one sliding into that role very easily.
Mia, I think a rottie is an excellent choice. I grew up with them and they're absolutely wonderful dogs. I don't know of any rottie SDs at the moment, but I can picture one sliding into that role very easily.
I really wasn't judging your choice of breed... especially as someone whose service dog in training is an aussie.
and it isn't about aggression, I DID NOT mean to imply that rotties are aggressive or anything, I'm saying (and again, I had this issue with Merlin) when their person/child/handler is indisposed, even before Cole is older and is the main handler, it goes against MOST dogs natural instinct, to let a bunch of stangers carrying large equipment near their person when their person is hurt.
Not a breed thing, just a dog thing.
But what does make is a breed thing is how EMTs and people react to this.
I have had seizures in public before, it took A WHILE (even with fluffy harmless looking Merlin) before Merlin got his training down enough to be comfortable with people (random strangers and medical people) approaching and helping me and for EMTs to see that my dog was trained in this situation and not hesitate with him. (in that sense, public perception and visual training/practice IS important. Most EMTs are clueless about service dogs and natural dog behavior.)
If that dog does anything a normal dog would do (react, pant, bark, pace)...you don't know what people might think or do. Training means I'm confident Merlin now knows what to do, where to sit, and that medical personel and strangers are comfortable helping me.
Most dogs do well differentiating between a threat and non threat, that is true. But understand, from a dogs perspective, what EMTs or strangers shaking and poking and kind of freaking out over THEIR PERSONS seemingly lifeless and hurt body, especially during a seizure... it's jarring! It's not something most dogs know how to handle! .
Cole will (I assume) be the solo handler of his dog at some point, and if something happens, I'm just saying, it's something you have to deal with training wise.
Involving friends and practicing with firemen and EMTs etc... is a great idea. That's what I mean when I said it's something you need to work on.
Added note: I have a pouch hanging from Merlins vest, with this patch on it
It's great for holding medical info (emergency numbers, blood type, allergies, and info on the service dog)
I really don't know where you got the idea that I was attacking you/your chosen breed in some way, I'm really just trying to help and give you as much info as I can muster
and it isn't about aggression, I DID NOT mean to imply that rotties are aggressive or anything, I'm saying (and again, I had this issue with Merlin) when their person/child/handler is indisposed, even before Cole is older and is the main handler, it goes against MOST dogs natural instinct, to let a bunch of stangers carrying large equipment near their person when their person is hurt.
Not a breed thing, just a dog thing.
But what does make is a breed thing is how EMTs and people react to this.
I have had seizures in public before, it took A WHILE (even with fluffy harmless looking Merlin) before Merlin got his training down enough to be comfortable with people (random strangers and medical people) approaching and helping me and for EMTs to see that my dog was trained in this situation and not hesitate with him. (in that sense, public perception and visual training/practice IS important. Most EMTs are clueless about service dogs and natural dog behavior.)
If that dog does anything a normal dog would do (react, pant, bark, pace)...you don't know what people might think or do. Training means I'm confident Merlin now knows what to do, where to sit, and that medical personel and strangers are comfortable helping me.
Most dogs do well differentiating between a threat and non threat, that is true. But understand, from a dogs perspective, what EMTs or strangers shaking and poking and kind of freaking out over THEIR PERSONS seemingly lifeless and hurt body, especially during a seizure... it's jarring! It's not something most dogs know how to handle! .
Cole will (I assume) be the solo handler of his dog at some point, and if something happens, I'm just saying, it's something you have to deal with training wise.
Involving friends and practicing with firemen and EMTs etc... is a great idea. That's what I mean when I said it's something you need to work on.
Added note: I have a pouch hanging from Merlins vest, with this patch on it
It's great for holding medical info (emergency numbers, blood type, allergies, and info on the service dog)
I really don't know where you got the idea that I was attacking you/your chosen breed in some way, I'm really just trying to help and give you as much info as I can muster
I really wasn't judging your choice of breed... especially as someone whose service dog in training is an aussie.
and it isn't about aggression, I DID NOT mean to imply that rotties are aggressive or anything, I'm saying (and again, I had this issue with Merlin) when their person/child/handler is indisposed, even before Cole is older and is the main handler, it goes against MOST dogs natural instinct, to let a bunch of stangers carrying large equipment near their person when their person is hurt.
Not a breed thing, just a dog thing.
But what does make is a breed thing is how EMTs and people react to this.
I have had seizures in public before, it took A WHILE (even with fluffy harmless looking Merlin) before Merlin got his training down enough to be comfortable with people (random strangers and medical people) approaching and helping me and for EMTs to see that my dog was trained in this situation and not hesitate with him. (in that sense, public perception and visual training/practice IS important. Most EMTs are clueless about service dogs and natural dog behavior.)
If that dog does anything a normal dog would do (react, pant, bark, pace)...you don't know what people might think or do. Training means I'm confident Merlin now knows what to do, where to sit, and that medical personel and strangers are comfortable helping me.
Most dogs do well differentiating between a threat and non threat, that is true. But understand, from a dogs perspective, what EMTs or strangers shaking and poking and kind of freaking out over THEIR PERSONS seemingly lifeless and hurt body, especially during a seizure... it's jarring! It's not something most dogs know how to handle! .
Cole will (I assume) be the solo handler of his dog at some point, and if something happens, I'm just saying, it's something you have to deal with training wise.
Involving friends and practicing with firemen and EMTs etc... is a great idea. That's what I mean when I said it's something you need to work on.
Added note: I have a pouch hanging from Merlins vest, with this patch on it
It's great for holding medical info (emergency numbers, blood type, allergies, and info on the service dog)
I really don't know where you got the idea that I was attacking you/your chosen breed in some way, I'm really just trying to help and give you as much info as I can muster
and it isn't about aggression, I DID NOT mean to imply that rotties are aggressive or anything, I'm saying (and again, I had this issue with Merlin) when their person/child/handler is indisposed, even before Cole is older and is the main handler, it goes against MOST dogs natural instinct, to let a bunch of stangers carrying large equipment near their person when their person is hurt.
Not a breed thing, just a dog thing.
But what does make is a breed thing is how EMTs and people react to this.
I have had seizures in public before, it took A WHILE (even with fluffy harmless looking Merlin) before Merlin got his training down enough to be comfortable with people (random strangers and medical people) approaching and helping me and for EMTs to see that my dog was trained in this situation and not hesitate with him. (in that sense, public perception and visual training/practice IS important. Most EMTs are clueless about service dogs and natural dog behavior.)
If that dog does anything a normal dog would do (react, pant, bark, pace)...you don't know what people might think or do. Training means I'm confident Merlin now knows what to do, where to sit, and that medical personel and strangers are comfortable helping me.
Most dogs do well differentiating between a threat and non threat, that is true. But understand, from a dogs perspective, what EMTs or strangers shaking and poking and kind of freaking out over THEIR PERSONS seemingly lifeless and hurt body, especially during a seizure... it's jarring! It's not something most dogs know how to handle! .
Cole will (I assume) be the solo handler of his dog at some point, and if something happens, I'm just saying, it's something you have to deal with training wise.
Involving friends and practicing with firemen and EMTs etc... is a great idea. That's what I mean when I said it's something you need to work on.
Added note: I have a pouch hanging from Merlins vest, with this patch on it
It's great for holding medical info (emergency numbers, blood type, allergies, and info on the service dog)
I really don't know where you got the idea that I was attacking you/your chosen breed in some way, I'm really just trying to help and give you as much info as I can muster
My post wasn't directed at you, Fran.
I did address some comments from your post, but I was also addressing others posts/comments along with some info that was brought up in pm's. That's why I didn't quote anything. I truly appreciate the responses I've been given, and I'm glad you are here to help me with the seizure side of things (sucky that you have seizures, but nice for me to be able to come to you with questions, etc.).
Just a few things I forgot that have come in handy.
- I keep a to-go phone (that is always charged/off) in Merlins vest in his emergency pouch. It has emergency numbers in it, and label that says "EMERGENCY NUMBERS INSIDE PLEASE USE ME" on the phone itself.
- This lady does great SD training videos http://www.youtube.com/user/supernaturalbc2008?feature=watch
- Merlin has a small SD in training vest when your pup is further in their training if you would like it (A puppy before they are really basically trained is just a service dog prospect ) I know expenses add up and he no longer fits in it.
Shiloh service dog vests makes these great, simple, cape style vests
speaking of back when he still wore that vest. I would not suggest allowing him to go potty (we did potty on cue), get petted without "go say hi" cue, sniff, go say hi to other dogs at all and do other doggy stuff when in vest. MANY people don't think dogs know the difference between in vest and out, but merlin certainly does and it's handy!
- Great socialization places that allow dogs
Anthropology
Home depot
Barnes & Noble
Tiff&Co
Pottery barn
Forever 21
Wet seal
Ace hardware
TJ Maxx
Nordstrom
*just a reminder for those reading that until you are further in training and your pup can be trusted and well behaved, it is VERY frowned upon to take a pup into places they aren't allowed in the name of training, so these places are great because they welcome ALL dogs and they are great practice when your dog is less-than-perfect, without giving other service dog training teams a bad rep*
- Outside the grocery store is not only GREAT for socialization, but the sound of shopping carts and walking around them is a great noisy thing for him/her to get used to.
- Cues for release (go play, go potty, go say hi..working now, lets go) was an important part of training for us. Because it's not like he's ALWAYS working, we go back and forth from working to chilling to being normal. and I don't want ANYTHING physical to be his cue (like being off leash, being on grass, being a certain place) and I really wanted him to be able to have breaks from working.
- Mat work is very important. Merlins mat is a small towel, it folds easy and goes in my backpack and it gives him a place he KNOWS he is supposed to stay and chill out. Especially since he is going to work with a child and be at school, it's a great tool
Ermmmm that's it for now! lol
- I keep a to-go phone (that is always charged/off) in Merlins vest in his emergency pouch. It has emergency numbers in it, and label that says "EMERGENCY NUMBERS INSIDE PLEASE USE ME" on the phone itself.
- This lady does great SD training videos http://www.youtube.com/user/supernaturalbc2008?feature=watch
- Merlin has a small SD in training vest when your pup is further in their training if you would like it (A puppy before they are really basically trained is just a service dog prospect ) I know expenses add up and he no longer fits in it.
Shiloh service dog vests makes these great, simple, cape style vests
speaking of back when he still wore that vest. I would not suggest allowing him to go potty (we did potty on cue), get petted without "go say hi" cue, sniff, go say hi to other dogs at all and do other doggy stuff when in vest. MANY people don't think dogs know the difference between in vest and out, but merlin certainly does and it's handy!
- Great socialization places that allow dogs
Anthropology
Home depot
Barnes & Noble
Tiff&Co
Pottery barn
Forever 21
Wet seal
Ace hardware
TJ Maxx
Nordstrom
*just a reminder for those reading that until you are further in training and your pup can be trusted and well behaved, it is VERY frowned upon to take a pup into places they aren't allowed in the name of training, so these places are great because they welcome ALL dogs and they are great practice when your dog is less-than-perfect, without giving other service dog training teams a bad rep*
- Outside the grocery store is not only GREAT for socialization, but the sound of shopping carts and walking around them is a great noisy thing for him/her to get used to.
- Cues for release (go play, go potty, go say hi..working now, lets go) was an important part of training for us. Because it's not like he's ALWAYS working, we go back and forth from working to chilling to being normal. and I don't want ANYTHING physical to be his cue (like being off leash, being on grass, being a certain place) and I really wanted him to be able to have breaks from working.
- Mat work is very important. Merlins mat is a small towel, it folds easy and goes in my backpack and it gives him a place he KNOWS he is supposed to stay and chill out. Especially since he is going to work with a child and be at school, it's a great tool
Ermmmm that's it for now! lol