Service Dog (Assistance Dog): Advice, input, sources needed

[Miakoda]

Input, advice, sources needed!

I've already posted that we will be getting a pup later this year, so now I've got to get busy with my research and finding a good trainer (my former trainer passed away a few years ago ).

I've not trained a service dog before, and I know that obedience will be the foundation. But as far as how (& what behaviors exactly to work for), I'm appealing to y'all for help.

Without going into Cole's entire medical history, I'll try to sum it up. He has Developmental Delay, which mostly pertains to behavior and emotions. He has Sensory Processing Disorder. He has mild hearing loss: 30% & 10% (left & right). He has damage to the frontal lobe (basically a TBI) which left him with epilepsy, and behaviors similar to those with ADHD, OCD, & autism. He can be impulsive, he gets frustrated easily, his feelings get hurt easily, he engages in self-stim behaviors such as running back & forth humming to himself or hand flopping (which is especially prevalent when sitting down to eat for some reason). He also has pretty bad anxiety, which often triggers the previously-mentioned behaviors. He has quirks, but he's highly intelligent and wants nothing more than to be a good boy and good student and enjoy life.

What I'm looking for is a way for a dog to not only just be near/next to him as a calming force, but also to possibly touch him in some manner to break up a cycle of self-stim (I often just gently touch him to get his brain to redirect onto me, which gets his focus off the behavior he was engaged in and allows him to move on). I definitely need the dog to be trained to be beside Cole and focused solely on him when out & about. Cole also has a tendency to wander away from me, so hopefully the dog will keep him in the present, or just block him from wandering.

I know several chazzers have service dogs, so I'd love any input and advice y'all have to give. Consider me a newbie, so feel free to bombard me with great reading materials, too!

And I'm sure I'll be hitting up our trainers as well!

ETA: It has just been over the past year that he has taken a very strong interest in dogs. Before, they sort of just added to the environment's overstimulating effect, and his SPD actually caused him to not really want to put/touch a dog (he still won't touch Poodles or Golden Retrievers). It's a tactile thing. But he recently seems to be at a point where he's interested in his own dog, he's able to do the things required to handle a dog, and he is one of the most compassionate and empathetic kids I've ever seen, especially towards animals. So the timing seems appropriate.

I will also be getting a CGC, TT (hopefully all the testing locations won't remain so far away as they have in recent years), and TDI.

 

[Miakoda]

The following has been suggested to me by a friend and local vet. I will be inquiring about observing some training sessions before puppy gets here.

http://www.lccoc.org

Classes offered:

And I ran across this online after a simple google search:
http://www.wagslouisiana.org

It's not the most informative of websites, but I'll be calling at some point to find out more about the organization.

 

[Julee]

How old?

 

[krissy]

I don't know much about service animals, so forgive me if this is a dumb question.... Aren't there organizations that train service dogs? I know when I was a student I saw a lot of puppies in training on campus (I wanted to do that but never lived somewhere I was allowed to have a dog) for guide dogs and autism assistance dogs. Is it very expensive to get one of these dogs and that is why you wish to do it yourself? It just seems to me that a professionally trained dog would be the best bet. I'm sure if there were special behaviours required they would customize the dog's training program to include it?

Again, I apologize if I am way off base. I don't have much experience with service dogs.

 

[Saeleofu]

and TDI.

No you won't, not if it's a service dog. TDI is discriminatory and doesn't allow service dogs to be therapy dogs with them.

I don't know much about service animals, so forgive me if this is a dumb question.... Aren't there organizations that train service dogs? I know when I was a student I saw a lot of puppies in training on campus (I wanted to do that but never lived somewhere I was allowed to have a dog) for guide dogs and autism assistance dogs. Is it very expensive to get one of these dogs and that is why you wish to do it yourself? It just seems to me that a professionally trained dog would be the best bet. I'm sure if there were special behaviours required they would customize the dog's training program to include it?

I had to train my own service dog because there were no reputable programs that trained autism service dogs for adults. So there's one reason. There are "service dogs" for autistic kids all over the ****ing place from every money-hungry program, but almost all of them are poorly trained and not legally service dogs when you get down to it...not to mention the pairing is often downright dangerous.

There are lots of reasons why someone would train their own dog, and if you have advanced training experience, then often owner-training is perfectly fine - as long as you know what you're doing and can be honest with yourself when it comes to your dog's behavior and, if it happens, if/when to wash them out.

How old?

This. Regardless of how old he is, though, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE promise me you will never tie the child and the dog to each other. Please.



Remember that a dog MUST be task-trained to be legally considered a service dog. Comfort/being near him is not enough. Also, the tasks have to mitigate HIS disability, and not just make parenting easier. So although blocking him from running is certainly helpful to you, it's likely not a task since it's not for HIM, but for you. Nothing wrong with training stuff that doesn't "count" though, so long as the required tasks are there as well.

Honestly, us listing things you could train the dog to do would be pointless. What you need to do is come up with a list of things he struggles with, and ways in which a dog can help with those things. Emotional support and making your life easier don't count. When you come up with these ideas, feel free to post them for input on how to make them work or how to train them or even if they can be trained. Lots of people say to think of what a robot could do to mitigate the disability if such a robot existed.


What kind of dog are you getting? Since you're a Chazzer I'm sure it's coming from a reputable breeder, but do keep in mind that not EVERY dog is fit to be a service dog for one reason or another.

 

[krissy]

I had to train my own service dog because there were no reputable programs that trained autism service dogs for adults. So there's one reason. There are "service dogs" for autistic kids all over the ****ing place from every money-hungry program, but almost all of them are poorly trained and not legally service dogs when you get down to it...not to mention the pairing is often downright dangerous.

Good to know. I was not aware that those dogs were not technically service dogs. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[RBark]

One of the best applications I have for service dogs, as someone with complete hearing loss in both ears, is simply how responsive dogs are to their surroundings. Priscilla would turn her ears one direction, and I'd look behind me to see if what she heard is relevant to me.

However this is considered a "passive" behavior of dogs, much like cuddling, affection, and so on are. So it's not an qualifying task for Service Dog work. A qualifying task would be more like if she heard something, and physically alerted me to the source of the noise. Sometimes that is used for things like alerting to sirens and so on.

It is important to be aware of what is a qualifying task and what is not. Anything your dog can do with none, or basic training is typically not qualifying.

As Saeleofu says, tying a child to a dog is generally a very very bad idea. I personally have difficulty understanding situations where a dog could help where a human would not do a better job, but these things are best left up to the person and not outside option. Dogs can't make judgement calls, and often have a much lower tolerance level than a human. The dog may be the calmest and most good natured dog in the world, and help you supervise the child, but you may end up replacing that energy by having to supervise the dog.

Faced with a child yanking and throwing a tantrum and trying to wander, the dog may bite. Every dog has it's breaking point, especially with children. So I'd be very careful, it only takes one time for disaster to strike.

 

[Miakoda]

Just to make it understood, I would NEVER EVER tie a dog to a child.

And to make myself clear, while using the term "service dog, I have no underhanded intentions of trying to pass off an untrained pet named Fluffy as a service animal just because it's "cool". ,at the same time, the dog will be more than just a companion dog that will sleep on the couch while my son sits there or chases him in the yard when my son feels like playing.

As for age, my son is 7 1/2. By the time the dog is old enough and "fully trained" (I put that in quotes because I don't ever believe a dog reaches a max training level, especially early on, and then that's that) he will be 9/10.

Is the wandering off a "convenience" thing for me? Absolutely not! It's a safety issue for him! I have 2 other sons, both younger than Cole, and it's a scary situation when you realize your son is in his own world and has just started stimming, and by doing so just takes off jogging while looking at the ground, humming, and flapping, only for you to realize a car has just started backing out a parking slit and you have 2 choices: leave a 3 & 5-year-old where they are, alone, and run after Cole, or start yelling at Cole and hope your voice breaks into his train of thought and he hears you in time to stop and avoid being hit.

Also, at home he will run back and forth in the kitchen, and while I try to gently touch him to gain his attention and break the cycle, I can't be everywhere at once.

There are a few other issues, but there's also his epilepsy. I know that epilepsy dogs are usually born, not made, and even the already trained ones are hit or miss in being paired because seizures aren't all alike nor do they present the same. But as a mother, it's very scary to know you're child is seizing when you aren't there to witness it (Cole's type often occur at night, and it too must get sleep or else I'm worthless as a mother). But Cole's are also "absentee" meaning that to often appears he's just ignoring you or zoned out and staring at who knows what, when he fact he's having a seizure. It's very hard to keep a seizure log when you don't know what is or what isn't. And while I'm pretty in tune to his seizures, my mom and my in-laws are not.

Also, not that it's necessarily anyone's business, I actually refrain from taking Cole to places and/or putting him into situations where he's guaranteed to become overstimulated, anxious, and then act out (mind you, Cole no longer has the floor tantrums or screaming out that he did as a toddler/young child, but rather sits down and will often pull away from us or even try to escape the situation). We don't force him to go eat out at restaurants or spend hours in a mall (or even go to a mall) or whatever. But things like our local little city's (country city) Christmas parade, that he truly wants to go to, are tough for him. He wants to be like everyone else and enjoy It, but then he just gets overwhelmed and anxious, which often triggers other behaviors such as self-stim ones.

I kind if feel it's being assumed that I just want some cute puppy and a nice vest to put it in so I can parade my son and said dog around, and that could not be further from the truth. If you want the truth, I'd rather my son have never had to face any of these issues or deal with the things he's had to deal with. I'm pretty sure I can speak for many mothers in my situation when I say that we feel bad that our children suffered a traumatic brain injury.

I'm trying my best to explain Cole's issues and quirks, and I've gotten some great I out from someone here in terms of specific tasks/actions the dog can do for Cole. That's what I was trying to ask about. Not how can I pass off an untrained dog as a service animal and ruin it for everyone.

 

[Miakoda]

And thanks for the info about TDI. I was not aware of it, as my other two dogs certified through them were obviously coming from a very different situation.

Also, I want to be perfectly clear: I'm not looking at doing this to make my life easier. I'm doing this to make Cole's life better! Never have I ever put myself before any of my children, and I'm appalled that there are people out there like that. But rest assured, I am not that person.

 

[Beanie]

I kind if feel it's being assumed that I just want some cute puppy and a nice vest to put it in so I can parade my son and said dog around, and that could not be further from the truth.

I don't think that's true - but I do think it's fairly common on this board for people to feel service dogs are inappropriate for children, especially children under a certain age.
Here's another thread on the subject:
http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253541

I don't believe it's a feeling that's directed at you personally... so please don't take it as such.

I like how Sael put it, thinking of tasks that a robot could do that would improve Cole's life and how you could train a dog to do those things.

Also, I think you need to be prepared for things to not work out and be aware that it's a very real possibility... especially when you're looking at a service dog for a child, I feel like that really complicates things. Here's a blog post/series on the subject.
http://aftergadget.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/washing-out-make-or-heartbreak-time/
http://aftergadget.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/washout-part-2-what-happens-to-barnum/

 

[Miakoda]

I don't think that's true - but I do think it's fairly common on this board for people to feel service dogs are inappropriate for children, especially children under a certain age.
Here's another thread on the subject:
http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253541

I don't believe it's a feeling that's directed at you personally... so please don't take it as such.

I do completely understand, and I even asked a third party to read this thread to see if I read it "wrong".

And I understand the age issue, as well. I've thought long and hard on it, and when his neurologist brought up the issue a little over 2 years ago, I was adamant that he was nowhere near ready. Not only did his SPD cause him to not even like petting a dog (he wanted to so badly, but just couldn't stand the sensation), but he showed no signs of any real interest in the dogs.

My middle son has been infatuated and obsessed with dogs from the moment he was aware of them, and he's still that way today. But now Cole really shows an interest, and he seeks out contact and interaction, especially when he's down or "off". When I asked him why he wanted TB to be by him, he said because it makes him feel better.

I like how Sael put it, thinking of tasks that a robot could do that would improve Cole's life and how you could train a dog to do those things.

Somehow I missed that, but that's a good way to look at it.

Also, I think you need to be prepared for things to not work out and be aware that it's a very real possibility... especially when you're looking at a service dog for a child, I feel like that really complicates things.

I totally am.

If it does "fail", then the dog will remain as our family pet, and I will pursue more from the therapy dog aspect and resume activities I did with my former therapy dogs. So it's really a win/win.

Here's a blog post/series on the subject.
http://aftergadget.wordpress.com/2011/04/19/washing-out-make-or-heartbreak-time/
http://aftergadget.wordpress.com/2011/04/24/washout-part-2-what-happens-to-barnum/

Thanks for the response. My replies in red.

 

[Romy]

I don't think Sael meant that you were considering those things at all! ((hugs)) You've always been extremely conscientious in regards to both your dogs and children.

Another poster did ask why not go with a program trained dog, and those (tethering) are common strategies used with a lot of the less reputable organizations that train assistance dogs for children. This is a public forum and this topic will likely be read by a lot of lurkers, so it's good general information for people to run across. Especially when so much misinformation exists.

Do you know what triggers his epilepsy? You don't have to answer publicly, but if your dog isn't a natural alerter to seizures then you may be able to train him to respond to triggers.

Operation Wolfhound has had some success training non alerters to alert to low blood sugar levels, which I know can be one trigger for people with epilepsy. I'll contact them and see if they have any specifics.

In general, when training a service dog public access is probably 90-95% of your training. It's one thing to have a well behaved dog. Service dogs need to be bombproof. I'd concentrate on socializing the crap out of the dog and proofing it against every scenario imaginable. Task training is one of the easier things.

 

[Miakoda]

I don't think Sael meant that you were considering those things at all! ((hugs)) You've always been extremely conscientious in regards to both your dogs and children.

Another poster did ask why not go with a program trained dog, and those (tethering) are common strategies used with a lot of the less reputable organizations that train assistance dogs for children. This is a public forum and this topic will likely be read by a lot of lurkers, so it's good general information for people to run across. Especially when so much misinformation exists.

Good point. I guess I felt frustrated as if I wasn't getting my point across. It's so hard to find a balance of too little info and too much unnecessary info, so I'm trying to do my best.

Do you know what triggers his epilepsy? You don't have to answer publicly, but if your dog isn't a natural alerter to seizures then you may be able to train him to respond to triggers.

It's hard to know exactly what. His seizures are a result of generalized abnormal electrical activity across the frontal lobe as a result of brain damage from the viral encephalitis he had when he turned 2.

However, fatigue is a huge issue as it seems to lower the seizure threshold. And one interesting thing I've noted is that his mood/behavior changes prior to a seizure/seizures. He becomes agitated, irritable (think being tired and cranky...not angry nor aggressive), fatigued/lethargic, and this occurs up to 24 hours in advance.

Operation Wolfhound has had some success training non alerters to alert to low blood sugar levels, which I know can be one trigger for people with epilepsy. I'll contact them and see if they have any specifics.

In general, when training a service dog public access is probably 90-95% of your training. It's one thing to have a well behaved dog. Service dogs need to be bombproof. I'd concentrate on socializing the crap out of the dog and proofing it against every scenario imaginable. Task training is one of the easier things.
Thanks! I definitely plan on doing that.

Thanks for responding. My replies in red.

 

[RBark]

Service Dog discussions are kind of a loaded issue. It's a discussion that touches on very sensitive subjects, and few things are more touchy than a person's disability. I respond poorly when people talk to me like an idiot because I am deaf.

So it is hard to approach this discussion without edging on issues that someone might be sensitive to. I can only speak for myself, but it is not my intention to make you feel like I'm assuming you would do the wrong thing.

Things like tying a child to a dog isn't people saying you're stupid for doing it. To be honest, it never occurred to me that would be a bad thing. I had once thought that would be a handy thing, until I read someone explain why it's a bad idea.

People on this forum don't want to assume you're a bad parent or an idiot. They just don't want to assume you already know absolutely everything, so a lot of seemingly trivial and/or sensitive things get emphasized almost offensively sometimes.

I certainly don't want to be told how to deal with my disability, but if I was asking for advice regarding my service dog I can expect people to skirt around some potentially offensive subjects.

Again, just speaking for myself in regards to my earlier advice. It was not my intention to sound demeaning, if that is how it came across.

 

[Saeleofu]

I don't think Sael meant that you were considering those things at all! ((hugs)) You've always been extremely conscientious in regards to both your dogs and children.

This. I'm sorry I came across as I did, but that's not what I meant (I hope you understand that communication is part of my disability). But it is a public forum, and I have dealt with SOOOO MANY IDIOTS over the last week, it probably bled through.

There are a few other issues, but there's also his epilepsy. I know that epilepsy dogs are usually born, not made, and even the already trained ones are hit or miss in being paired because seizures aren't all alike nor do they present the same. But as a mother, it's very scary to know you're child is seizing when you aren't there to witness it (Cole's type often occur at night, and it too must get sleep or else I'm worthless as a mother). But Cole's are also "absentee" meaning that to often appears he's just ignoring you or zoned out and staring at who knows what, when he fact he's having a seizure. It's very hard to keep a seizure log when you don't know what is or what isn't. And while I'm pretty in tune to his seizures, my mom and my in-laws are not.

Dogs can't be trained to alert to seizures. It happens or it doesn't. They can, however, be trained to respond to seizures. That is what a seizure dog really is - a seizure response dog. The signaling is just a lucky bonus if the dog ends up doing it.

That's all I feel comfortable putting here right now, since clearly I'm not communicating well and I don't want words turned against me.

 

[DJEtzel]

I am thinking that a physical interruption of his stimming (is that the right usage/term?) behaviors would be a task, correct? It's something he can't stop on his own, but is necessary to tune back into reality, correct?

However this is considered a "passive" behavior of dogs, much like cuddling, affection, and so on are. So it's not an qualifying task for Service Dog work. A qualifying task would be more like if she heard something, and physically alerted me to the source of the noise. Sometimes that is used for things like alerting to sirens and so on.

This would be a good idea. I know that hearing alert dogs are trained using targeting that is then paired with different sounds, so that they physically go target/alert noise at it's source.

Also, as Sael pointed out, seizure response would also be a good task.

Would it be possible/safe to teach the dog to bite onto a belt or something to keep him from running when they're together?

 

[Saeleofu]

I know that hearing alert dogs are trained using targeting that is then paired with different sounds, so that they physically go target/alert noise at it's source.

And this is why small hyper shelter mutts make the best hearing dogs! :rofl1: Shelter dogs are hit-and-miss for most service dogs, but for hearing dogs, shelters are the most common place to acquire them, and with a high success rate at that. Plus a lot of hearing dogs are in-home only (though not all of them, of course) so the temperament/behavior standards aren't quite as high as a public-access service dog needs to be.

Would it be possible/safe to teach the dog to bite onto a belt or something to keep him from running when they're together?

NO. Absolutely not. Biting a child is NOT a safe thing to train - not clothing, not skin, not anything else. Blocking is about all you can do, other than train the child to hold onto the dog's harness (which most kids, even non-disabled ones, seem to be MORE than happy to do. I know when I was a kid I ALWAYS had my hand on the dog's leash when my parents walked the dogs).

 

[DJEtzel]

And this is why small hyper shelter mutts make the best hearing dogs! :rofl1: Shelter dogs are hit-and-miss for most service dogs, but for hearing dogs, shelters are the most common place to acquire them, and with a high success rate at that. Plus a lot of hearing dogs are in-home only (though not all of them, of course) so the temperament/behavior standards aren't quite as high as a public-access service dog needs to be.

That's interesting to know!

NO. Absolutely not. Biting a child is NOT a safe thing to train - not clothing, not skin, not anything else. Blocking is about all you can do, other than train the child to hold onto the dog's harness (which most kids, even non-disabled ones, seem to be MORE than happy to do. I know when I was a kid I ALWAYS had my hand on the dog's leash when my parents walked the dogs).

I definitely tried avoiding it sounding like that. I didn't know if something ON/hanging from the child might be more suitable (NOT grabbing pants, an arm, etc.), sort of like a handle for a shop door. Sounds like it may be safer/easier to train the child in this case though. XD

 

[Saeleofu]

That's interesting to know!




I definitely tried avoiding it sounding like that. I didn't know if something ON/hanging from the child might be more suitable (NOT grabbing pants, an arm, etc.), sort of like a handle for a shop door.

Still no. It's too much of a risk. What happens when the dog misses its target? It's one thing to teach a dog to pull a tug to open a door. It's totally different when that tug is hanging off of a moving target that can be severely injured if the dog misses. Depending on the dog, generalizing to "bite anything on the child" or even "bite the child" isn't a stretch, either.

 

[Romy]

Still no. It's too much of a risk. What happens when the dog misses its target? It's one thing to teach a dog to pull a tug to open a door. It's totally different when that tug is hanging off of a moving target that can be severely injured if the dog misses. Depending on the dog, generalizing to "bite anything on the child" or even "bite the child" isn't a stretch, either.

I would worry about nosy bystanders mistaking the dog performing its task for the dog attacking the child as well, and someone taking drastic measures to "save" the kid.