Some dog breeds just don't need to be shaved...

Remember, insulation works both ways.

It traps heat in, but it also keeps heat out. Guard hairs should reflect the sun before it has a chance to hit the skin and warm that. Remember, that in very hot climates, people often wear full clothes for sun and heat protection. They do not wear wool underwear though:

At some point, a dog could just be too warm with its own metabolism inside their undercoat. Its too bad you can't shave the undercoat back without hitting the guard hairs.

Wouldn't that be THE most awesome thing ever??

the first thing i want to point out is that shaving a dog like a poodle, maltese, schnauzer, etc, is completely different from shaving a dog like a b/c, aussie, chow, pyr, etc. they have completely different hair types. if you shave a poodle, the hair will grow back the same. poodles, etc, do not use their coat as much for temp control. a dog with undercoat, needs his coat for keeping cool and for keeping warm. the ONLY reason a dog would be too hot in full coat is if the undercoat is not removed properly.

when shaving a doublecoated breed, you will mess with the regrowth of the coat. undercoat grows much faster than the guard hairs, and for at least 6 months to a year, you will have a fully cottony mess. without the gaurd hairs, the undercoat alone will mat up much easier than regular hair (so that means a shaved dog needs to be brushed even more). most dogs do eventually grow back, but dfuring the time they are growing in, the dog is at an extreme risk of the elements, whether its cold or hot (this is pretty serious, considering these dogs spend their whole lives with that coat, some do have adverse reactions to suddenly having nothing there). Also, if your dog has an unknown health issue, the hair may never grow back (i have seen this happen to many dogs, when if the issue had been found before the owner decided to shave, the coat could have been saved.)

i know many of you have psted that your own dog was shaved and had never been happier. all that really tells me is that the coat before the shaving was just not being properly cared for. i know many dogs, working in grooming and daycare, and know plenty of doublecoated breeds whose owners keep up with the undercoat, and those dogs do completely fine in the heat (and i live in southern california, its november and we just hit 95 this last weekend).

some people have brought up that it is better to shave your dog than have a matted dog. well if the dog was a poodle i agree. but most (not all) of the time, i have been suddessful and brushing out a matted double coated breed. usually it is dead hair that matted, and its comes out very easily b/c it isnt attached to the skin anymore. most experianced groomers are able to do it without causing any discomfort to the dog.

some have also mentioned that someone should get anydog without much consideration for hairtype. that is a huge mistake. why would you get a golden retriever when you hate dog hair? or a chow for that matter? i personally think it is a little selfish to get a dog with hair and then for your own satisfaction shave that dog b/c you cant handle the hair for whatever reason. most of those reasons arent even valid: shedding- does not stop shedding, only littler hairs, that actually stick to everything instead of just falling on the floor, will appear; cool- already explained the myth of these one; matting/upkeep-also already explained how haveing a shaved dog is actually more work than having one in full coat.

if i sit there and explain to an owner all the possible things that could go wrong with having their dog shaved, and they still want to do it, then that really tells me what kind of person im dealing with. i understand that some do not see the seriousness in some of tthe issues explained, but why would you want the possibility of causing your dog any discomfort just b/c you cant deal with his hair? i just find that to be very selfish on the owners part.

and, yes it can be a matter of life and death. many dogs have suffered adverse affects, and i have heard of dogs dieing of heat stroke after being shaved.

I remember when my mom used to have my Aussie mix shaved... she looked awfully funny, but I hated that she had to be shaved because her coat never grew back quite the same again. Needless to say she ended up shaved almost every summer and my mom's reasonings were because of the shedding *face palm*

Bamm will NOT be shaved unless he has to for any major reason like a surgery or something. I love his coat too much the way it is and all summer long he seemed totally fine with it being the length that it is. And I will definitely never shave his bum pantaloons... I can't imagine the way they'd look trying to grow back hahahaha. He'd have a spikey butt. I've already decided that if my mom moves out here I would be willing to move in with her as long as she completely understands that I will not shave my border collie.

The summer I tried not shaving Bailey, I brushed him for an hour everyday to remove the under hair. I have a regular bush and comb that I use on him during the winter to make sure he doesn't matte. I bought an underbrush comb AND a furminator when the comb didn't seem to be doing anything. I was also making a good salary at the time, so he went to the groomer every other week, and I got my nails and hair done while he was there. He STILL got horribly hot, that I ended up shaving him.

I used to have a chowish type dog a while ago, and when she was young her coat came out no problem every year. When she got old, she stopped shedding it all, and I ended up shaving her in the summer too.


As far as the "elements," as stated before, most dogs are in a house all the time. So there really aren't "elements" for them to have to be protected against. They aren't going to have the sun on them 24/7, they aren't going to be out in the rain, etc.

As far as hair growth. My dog is a companion animal only, if his color pattern changes, or his grows back a little rough it doesn't make a difference to me. I still love the bugger. But, I will add, that even though he gets shaved every year, he still has REALLY soft hair.

Let me see if I can describe Benji's coat.

Benji doesn't have an undercoat. His hair is soft, and it grows out continuously. If you part it, it doesn't look like my lab mix's coat, which has obvious guard hairs and undercoat, it looks the way human hair looks growing out of a human head. He doesn't shed, and his coat grows in very thick. He is a schnauzer mix, but his coat is not like a schnauzer's coat, except for color. It is much softer than any schnauzer's coat I've ever felt. We think he might have lhasa apso in him, and that might be where he gets coat like that from.

The thing that makes me so crazy about collies is that if you don't want to groom and aren't going to take proper care of a coat? There's a low-maintenance version READILY available, frequently even from the same breeder!

xpaenx, did you shave him some summers before you left his coat on for a summer?

From what I've been told, just shaving once does permenant damage to theinsulation qualities of a coat, so if you shave a double coated dog once, your likley to have to keep it up, you can't just brush out undercoat after that because the insulation properties don't work the same anymore.

I am curious, how many sport dogs do you groom? I too know many people that shave their sport dogs for the hotter months, to keep the dogs cool after a run/competing and it is effective.
Personally I think people (groomers included) need to be aware of where the breed originated from and what its job was. Correct me if I am wrong but don't most double coated breeds originate from climates were it was colder and wetter???
Agreed that if such a breed is shaved, then precautions have to be made to protect the skin.

Aside from Lilly being way cute and cooler when she is shaved, she is happier. On her morning walks, in full coat, I have begun to notice she is battling. She is going in on Tuesday to get shaved. I know she will be much happier.
There has been no change in her coat quality at all. It grows back perfectly each time, also, she has had no marking changes??? Not sure how that can occur.

Spaying/neutering has more of an effect on the coat than clipping does (quality wise) Yet you don't suggest that people keep dogs intact to keep from getting a poor 'fluffy' coat. And its not like those parts can grow back.

I have seen enough well cared for dogs (as in well groomed etc, properly fed, conditioned etc) that are happier shaved in the hot weather. I have had Kaiden shaved. Everyone else I handstrip. His coat is a bit softer than what is ideal. I had lots of people tell me that clipping him would make his coat worse. There is no change.. it grows in the same. He IS softer right after clipping, as his undercoat is MUCH softer than the harsh guard hairs. BUT that happens if you strip a dog out all at once too. (stripping plucks out the long outer coat)

Kaiden runs much faster without the extra hair in the summer.
with the hair


With out the hair (starting to grow back.. don't seem to have any of him right after the clip)


I did make sure he didn't spend hours in the sun right after he was clipped, anymore than I let my kid run around with unprotected skin during the first spell of nice weather each year.

I know many clipped dogs. So far none have had issues growing coat back. Most have been happier clipped in the summer than non. I am sorry but I just don't see the issues that are claimed. All I see are happy cooler dogs. Yes in hot countries they wear long clothing. Long loose clothing to keep the sun off the skin. The dog will still have loose clothing (short hair lets air circulate just fine) that shades the skin (as long as you don't shave down to the skin)

If long hair was a great protection against the heat-they why aren't all hot climate breeds long haired?

Trey's color has actually changed where he was shaved for his surgery. Not just where there's scar tissue, but the whole area where he was shaved. It also grew back thinner. No idea, but all I know is it looks bad now, lol.

How long ago was that Laur? I know some dogs it takes more than year for a full coat to grow back. (just like it can take a few years for some breeds to get full coats. LHW take till 3-4 to get full coat.. I would assume if you clipped on down it would take a couple of years to get it all back)

I guess that will remain a mystery until the dogs find a way to tell us the answer to which is better

no it was the first summer I had him. I adopted him though, so I can't say what happened to him before I had him. I like the look of him in a full coat, but this area, it's REALLY not practical. It's humid hot here in the summer, so having anything "extra" on you makes you miserable. However, in the winters it's freezing, dry, and really windy. He does awsome in fullcoat in the winter. He even helps my kelpie mix out by standing over her or blocking the wind when they're both outside together. She has to wear a blanket in the winter or else she gets way too cold. He runs outside ready to go and happy go lucky.




Dogstar, as far as people not wanting to groom their collies, maybe that's something you should talk to them about before selling them a puppy? You can mention that if they want a less hassel dog they should get the smooth.

I really like the rough, and the upkeep wasn't a problem for me. But the heat is a problem for Bailey, so he gets shaved in the summer. But in the winter his full coat ROCKS. I'm not sure if I had a smooth, if I would have to always put a jacket on him/her like I do with Keeda.

I do think they can tell us.

I dog who is slow and pants a lot and sleeps a lot in the summer who then changes to playful exhuberance and gets more out going is saying a lot.

About a year and a half or so.

I must admit though, that it's kind of amusing my attempt at a lighthearted thread got turned into a shaving v non shaving debate.

And look how the Obama/Gay/Lesbian Rights thread has turned :rofl1:

:hail: Gimme five! Thats exactly what I worry about when I see that people shave their dog. Just because some of us will take precautions, doesn't mean that other (less knowledgable) people will take those same precautions. So as as PoodleMommy put it "people should understand the risks they are taking when they shave their dogs so that they may take precautions against them."

Heh...oops didn't notice there was a whole second page!!!:yikes: