Friendly dog killed for food agresion on one test

What do you think of this humaine societies example of testing a dog??

Found here


Isn't it to be expected that when you read for a dogs food some dogs are food agresive, and especially in a shelter enviroment might be scared of getting there food stolen from other dogs?

My dog is a Shih tzu who is 9 months and I tell you right now he would never never pass that chair test. He cannot even get down from the couch because he's affraid of heights. To the shelter people, why is this a good test?

its all about liability... they just can't take the risk of the dog biting someone.

If they know the dog has a potential to bite: Ex. food aggression - and the dog goes into a home, and lets say a visiting neighbor brings their kid who toddles around and sticks her fingers in the bowl and gets bit... shelter's don't want to risk getting sued, blamed, ridiculed, ect.

I'll admit that sometimes I wonder if half the dogs I know would even pass some of the tests (some of the random ones like opening the umbrella in the face, or dropping pots and pans all over in front of them, or the crazy lady with a wig and pom poms riding by on a bike taunting the dogs) and I wonder about the results they are getting and how many dogs get pts that could've possibly been rehabilitated......

A girl I used to work with had this great rott/hound mix she was fostering and he almost didn't get to leave the shelter alive because they said he was food aggressive. Well, she got him home and found that his "aggression" was more of a "guarding" because he was 15 pounds underweight and had been in a group cage so he had to compete for food. Once she got some weight on him, there wasn't a problem. Her six year old could hand-feed this dog with nary a worry. He could eat in a group of dogs and the only change was that he ate a bit faster. No growling, no hackles, no snapping.

I know there are plenty of dogs who rightly fail this test, but there are so many other variables to consider sometimes.

I know that zyzy had awful food aggression to other dogs, but was fine with me touching his food and taking it away...I wonder if he would have passed their *tests*

Hannah is the same way Jess. With us we can pet her and stick our hands in the bowl and she'd just eat around us without a problem. If there is another dog though she gets sort of edgey and will sometimes snap at another dog. I don't know why though. I seriously doubt that Hannah would pass their temperment tests though because of her additude towards strangers.

Oh. My. God.

Actually, I found the chair test odder. How is a dog they just met suppossed to be "commanded" to get off the chair... Do dogs automatically understand English now. My dogs wouldn't even fit on a chair.

Personally I prefer that any dog I get that is in good health and weight be able to pass a food test. It doesn't say exactly how much the dog reacted. He could have started biting, left the food and continued biting the hand after it retreated. To me that would be dangerous. Animal shelters know the Lowest Common Denominator of pet owners. They are not going to watch the dog eat everytime, mistakes happen, and they would rather adopt out a dog that isn't going to snap at a kid who manages to get near them while they're eating.

I'll agree that a food test is extremely unfair to a dog that is significantly underweight, and they should be up to a healthy weight before you can really rely on the test.

But really a dog that is "nice and friendly" when you meet it in the front yard can be a completely different animal living with you, or interacting with other animals, and could easily have a temperment that wasn't "safe" for the general public.


As to dogs that would fail a temperment test, My older dog would have no problem with just about anything, we've even worked over her fear of umbrellas. My more recent pup though it scared of anything long and thick, like broom handles. He's afraid of plastic bags, loud noises, and just about anything new. I've been working on it, but he just has a more fearful personality, and would likely cause a blip on a temperment test. I'm fairly sure his problem is socialization though, rather than abuse. He just never saw any of these things when he was younger.

--Mia

LoL, I just had to laugh at this picture of a big dog trying to fit on a small chair

Seriously though, like I said, Charlie would fail this test because hes afraid of heights, but I think he would pass most of the other tests, so maybe its meant to balance itself out with the different tests.

ah yes, the legacy of sue sternberg. excuse me as i go vomit.

i don't think you can compare your owned pet dogs to shelter dogs though. there are SO many dogs in need of homes and i don't totally disagree with euthanizing those who don't pass a temperament test, because there are plenty of dogs out there who are NOT a danger to people, and there are plenty of people out there quite willing to sue the shelter when they get bitten.

would you feel the same way about it if it were a big dog and not a shih tzu?

Katie is scared of her own shadow! She does not react aggressively when she's scared, but she sure as hell runs to her mommy! We're working w/ her...and she's getting better, but I dont think she would pass some of the tests. (She actually went up to the vaccuum on her own...it was a miracle...while it was running!!!)

Both of my dogs were shelter dogs and at least one did pass one of those temperment tests. (I expect the questionable rescue my pup came from didn't bother, they didn't even temperment match the pups, it was an oh you're approved, pick a puppy out of the pile.) Not all of those tests are to the excessive degree that Sue Sternberg's test is.

I feel the same regardless of breed or size. I don't care how big a dog is I don't want to get bitten by it. There are too many stupid pet owners out there to adopt out potential biters. There are thousands of dogs languishing in shelters, and I'd prefer that the biters and potential biters get weeded out first.

The first dog I tried to adopt was from a rescue that didn't bother with temperment tests and relied on the previous owners description. Turned out the dog hated other dogs, and wanted to attack traffic and barked/lunged at anything that moved. Too bad i had another dog, and a cat, adn lived on a very busy street. I tried 6 months of training with a dog who continually lunged at all the other dogs, trucks, and people she saw. When the trainer suggessted spraying bitter apple at her when she lunged I was done. I got to return her to the rescue where she went right back up for adoption :yikes:

Now, if I hadn't gotten her from a rescue with a strick no-kill policy I likely would have had her put down. She was in no way safe, and if her leash ever broke she would have hurt someone. At the time I didn't know anywhere near what I know now about dogs, or I never would have taken her. But realistically dogs with severe and obvious problems should not be up for adoption...Just because I now know better doesn't mean anyone else does.

--Mia

Yes I would. I don't think its a smart idea to put your hands around a dog when he is eating, regardless of the breed of dog. I understand the need for testing, but in that stressful enviroment there needs to be some understanding of the stress on the dog.

If a dog is in a shelter and keeps getting there food stolen by other dogs there then they might start to guard there food. A dog is also smart enough to tell the difference between a rubber hand and a real persons hand. Wouldn't many dogs see this as a rubber toy even? I don't understand whr thats a good test, or the chair test either.

both of my dogs were temperament tested as well. luce came from a city shelter and she was crazy dog-reactive, dog-aggro from the very beginning. dog-dog relations were not part of the temp test.

i'm not sure how much stock i put in the "dogs are stressed in a shelter" arguement. well, yeah. dogs in a shelter are stressed. but a dog who is grabbed by a toddler while its eating might be stressed too. dogs are stressed in all sorts of different situations. it's when the dog is stressed that you see its true colors.

i don't think it's acceptable for a dog to bite to protect its food, period. and while i understand that yes, it is a behavior that can be modified, the average joe dogowner is not likely to understand how or seek to do so.

and thus, the dog is a bite risk, and dogs who are above-average bite risks can lead to all kinds of bad ends for both the adopters and for future shelter dogs.

There are so many variables to consider when doing a resource guarding assessment and I can not imagine anyone doing one on a dog suffering from starvation. I DO use the assess-a-hand (thank you Sue), as it protects my own hand and arm during an assessment. Believe me, if you've ever seen a sever case of resource guarding you'd be glad to have a "tool" to use that looks like the real thing but does not require a post assessment hospital visit to reattach fingers. I have gone through over 10 hands in the past several years. All retired hands look like they'd been used in school shop class safety videos. It can be a pretty hair raising exercise but it NEEDS to be done.

I DO NOT jab at a dog or try to encourage it to bite EVER. While resource guarding is a natural canine behavior, it is totally unacceptable to adopt a dog with this issue to an unsuspecting home. While it can (must) be corrected, it can cause some extremely nasty bites if not addressed.
The hand is (should be) used in the least threatening manor possible (simply to mimic someone reaching for an object) in order to look for signs of everything from blocking, hovering, muzzel punching, increased eating speed and of course the worst case, attack. In some cases, the test must be repeated several times over a period of time as dogs react differently to shelter stress.
One quick note....I've never recommended that a dog be PTS for resource guarding and have successfully worked with many dogs to correct this common problem. Many shelters don't have the time and resources needed and sadly have to make this decision all to often to protect both the public and the shelter itself.

Find me a toddler you can explain dog body language to and I might change my mind about food guarding. The idea is public safety, and expecting everyone to know better than to touch a dog who is eating is really expecting a lot from many people. And realistically expecting the average owner to watch a dog every second of everytime they're eating is kind of silly. The goal is to prevent accidents. Many children are no longer taught that dogs might not be friendly and to leave them alone. And often in extreme food guarding the dogs guard not only the food, but the bowl, and sometimes the space around the bowl, even if no food is present.

As to whether a rubber hand makes it less effective I doubt it. There is a distinct difference between play behavior and guarding or aggressive behavior. The rubber hand just keeps fingers attached as dr2little said.

--Mia

I can say this...I can take a bone away from my dogs without any problem. Now, one of the other dogs another story. They guard that bone like they will never see another one.

To me, a sad controversial subject. On one hand I can understand the reasoning behind it. Curious un-taught toddlers would possibly get bit. But, that does not mean the dog could not go to a home without children. On the other hand, anyone who intends to own a dog should also teach the children,(if they have any) respect for a dog.

Would I be happy with someone sticking their hand in my food? NO Way! I would be a cranky old wench. But, I also do make sure my dogs are not human food aggressive. But, I start them at a very early age. I also started my grand-daughter at a very early age.

Shelter dogs are different though. No one really knows what they have been through in their lifetime. So very, very sad. I guess most shelters don't have the money for dog psychologists. Easier to put to sleep, than deal with the problem and correct it.

not only that, but there are so vastly many more dogs than homes, that i think aggression is an easy criteria to decide by. if there weren't so many dogs in shelters, there'd probably be more resources for training and correcting problem behaviors.

it's sad. the shelter situation just makes me so depressed.

i would have turned round and slapped someone ho was prodding me whilst was eating,i think pooy would have passed that though, not me thogh, lol