Would your dog defend you?
- Thread starter Gempress
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i believe buster and harry would definelty bite to defend me. they both have that real cattle dog in them and they actually look at other people like they want to bite them. its almost like they want people to give them a chance to. but they're btoh well voice controlled and come on command.
sophie is the best natured dog you could ever own. but i believe she would also defend us and our property no matter what.
we've talked about it before. buster and harry have a real thing about protecting their people. they are just constantly with us.
but sophie is more of a property guarder, when she was younger, every night before it got dark she would walk the whole perimetre of the yard, tail up, ears up. sussing it out before bed.
i'm quite happy walking around at night as long as i have buster. he's small but he is such a proptective boy.
mac however,. i think would put on a big show but not actually get in there. which is probably in her best interests considering she's our smallest dog
sophie is the best natured dog you could ever own. but i believe she would also defend us and our property no matter what.
we've talked about it before. buster and harry have a real thing about protecting their people. they are just constantly with us.
but sophie is more of a property guarder, when she was younger, every night before it got dark she would walk the whole perimetre of the yard, tail up, ears up. sussing it out before bed.
i'm quite happy walking around at night as long as i have buster. he's small but he is such a proptective boy.
mac however,. i think would put on a big show but not actually get in there. which is probably in her best interests considering she's our smallest dog
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I don't know if mine would actually bite to protect me, but it's immaterial if they would. Not many people would try to go past three chows and a German shepherd, all barking and lunging (which is what they would do initially if someone threatened).
I am of the opinion that the therapy dog places should NOT accept dogs that have done bitework, and I'll tell you why. While those who have posted here may have done the bitework training correctly and maybe their dogs do have the control to not bite because they've been taught "off", there are too many out there who are not doing the training properly. I've personally seen this in dogs being trained for competition schutzhund. While it's a nice thought to say "dogs trained in schutzhund or PP are more trustworthy", unfortunately that does NOT follow through in all cases. I don't think that teaching a dog to bite and teaching it an "off" command necessarily creates a dog less likely to bite anyhow. It's less likely to bite when commanded not to, perhaps, but in all honesty giving a dog the right to bite can heighten the dog's desire to bite - not always, of course, but since bitework is typically a fun thing for the dog it can certainly make the dog more eager. Without the control of the owner at the time, it can transfer to a dog more willing to bite overall.
I'm not saying any of yours are - I don't know your dogs, and all we can go on here is what people say. However, I have seen it happen where the dogs are more unstable (in the sense of wanting physical contact with their mouths) afterwards. Since TDI and Delta Society have no way of knowing if the dogs "trained" in bitework have learned a higher inhibition or a lower one, it makes complete sense to me to make a rule that the dog can't have bitework training.
And personally I would prefer to see people be honest about this (again, not saying anyone is being dishonest). All it would take is one therapy dog biting someone and it being found out that the dog had a bitework background to discredit bitework training entirely and to discredit the therapy group too.
I think there's a very valid place for bitework training. I think there's a very valid place for therapy dogs. They don't need to mix and for practical, logical reasons.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
I am of the opinion that the therapy dog places should NOT accept dogs that have done bitework, and I'll tell you why. While those who have posted here may have done the bitework training correctly and maybe their dogs do have the control to not bite because they've been taught "off", there are too many out there who are not doing the training properly. I've personally seen this in dogs being trained for competition schutzhund. While it's a nice thought to say "dogs trained in schutzhund or PP are more trustworthy", unfortunately that does NOT follow through in all cases. I don't think that teaching a dog to bite and teaching it an "off" command necessarily creates a dog less likely to bite anyhow. It's less likely to bite when commanded not to, perhaps, but in all honesty giving a dog the right to bite can heighten the dog's desire to bite - not always, of course, but since bitework is typically a fun thing for the dog it can certainly make the dog more eager. Without the control of the owner at the time, it can transfer to a dog more willing to bite overall.
I'm not saying any of yours are - I don't know your dogs, and all we can go on here is what people say. However, I have seen it happen where the dogs are more unstable (in the sense of wanting physical contact with their mouths) afterwards. Since TDI and Delta Society have no way of knowing if the dogs "trained" in bitework have learned a higher inhibition or a lower one, it makes complete sense to me to make a rule that the dog can't have bitework training.
And personally I would prefer to see people be honest about this (again, not saying anyone is being dishonest). All it would take is one therapy dog biting someone and it being found out that the dog had a bitework background to discredit bitework training entirely and to discredit the therapy group too.
I think there's a very valid place for bitework training. I think there's a very valid place for therapy dogs. They don't need to mix and for practical, logical reasons.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Quest I do agree there are more not honest people than honest.
Would rather have no one hurt if I promote my dogs in this manner.
I know their limitations others dont believe dogs have limits I know they do.
But I wont turn in my TDI certification after I did bite work.
Because the dog earned it and can do BOTH work..
I just dont do a typical therapy work any more ie hospitals nursing homes.
I do demo work and some of my dogs can do bitework on Sat and be petted by hundreds Sunday at the Toronto Sportsman show.
And in 05 the last thing my dad asked for before his 2nd stroke was to bring Coz in. Because Coz has his title we were doing it that weekend.
But he passed the day before.
Also myy dogs can be petted by the civil tester or agiator once they stop threatening me my dogs TURN off > NO prey drive to keep them pumped.
This some PP are not for they want the dogs NOT to be petted - I do and by the very person they just bite the sleeve off of...
To each is own is my motto..
Would rather have no one hurt if I promote my dogs in this manner.
I know their limitations others dont believe dogs have limits I know they do.
But I wont turn in my TDI certification after I did bite work.
Because the dog earned it and can do BOTH work..
I just dont do a typical therapy work any more ie hospitals nursing homes.
I do demo work and some of my dogs can do bitework on Sat and be petted by hundreds Sunday at the Toronto Sportsman show.
And in 05 the last thing my dad asked for before his 2nd stroke was to bring Coz in. Because Coz has his title we were doing it that weekend.
But he passed the day before.
Also myy dogs can be petted by the civil tester or agiator once they stop threatening me my dogs TURN off > NO prey drive to keep them pumped.
This some PP are not for they want the dogs NOT to be petted - I do and by the very person they just bite the sleeve off of...
To each is own is my motto..
I depends. It seems like my dog thinks about it too much. When I was pelting a co worker with snowballs, Buckshot didnt help me at all, he could have at least barked at the guy. Instead of helping he went over to the guy so that I would quit throwing snowballs. Since he has such poor judgement I would rather he just servs as a warning device.
G
IliamnasQuest,
I agree with you on most points. Ryot loves grabbing things with him mouth and that has become a problem since he is getting bigger and stronger (and puts more force on biting). Most of that nipping and biting goes away as they mature, but a bite is a bite, it hurts regardless if the dog was being agressive or playful.
My trainer has a GSD (going to be 2 this month) and I've watched this dog grow from 8 weeks to now. He is a VERY stable dog. SHe would do classroom demonstrations (with little kids, like preschool and kindergarten), demos, therapy ect. He is a very social dog and is great with kids. He has just now started becoming defensive through training and lately has become a little unpredictable. The wrong movements, any cracking of leashes, or whips or objects, turns him on. He is going through his "I'm the shyt nothing can touch me phase" and makes it a point to show it. I think right now its an age thing, and as he matures he will calm down but right now I wouldnt trust him in all situations. If you make a wrong move he's going to whip around and do something and that can lead to issues.
I think if someone wants to do therapy with a dog trained in bitework, they should wait until the dog is FULLY matured and trained. Or just get a new dog.
I agree with you on most points. Ryot loves grabbing things with him mouth and that has become a problem since he is getting bigger and stronger (and puts more force on biting). Most of that nipping and biting goes away as they mature, but a bite is a bite, it hurts regardless if the dog was being agressive or playful.
My trainer has a GSD (going to be 2 this month) and I've watched this dog grow from 8 weeks to now. He is a VERY stable dog. SHe would do classroom demonstrations (with little kids, like preschool and kindergarten), demos, therapy ect. He is a very social dog and is great with kids. He has just now started becoming defensive through training and lately has become a little unpredictable. The wrong movements, any cracking of leashes, or whips or objects, turns him on. He is going through his "I'm the shyt nothing can touch me phase" and makes it a point to show it. I think right now its an age thing, and as he matures he will calm down but right now I wouldnt trust him in all situations. If you make a wrong move he's going to whip around and do something and that can lead to issues.
I think if someone wants to do therapy with a dog trained in bitework, they should wait until the dog is FULLY matured and trained. Or just get a new dog.
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That sounds nothing like the civil we do. Our dogs have an on and an off. Immediately before being turned on they can be social with the decoy, and immediately after being turned off they can be social with the decoy. Most dogs are taught civil through defense and/or prey drive, but the dogs would never be pushed to the point of making them dangerous. I wish we had video, but when we do demonstrations we show people how they turn on, turn off, and can be social immediately afterwards. I don't find any danger in the way that we do it because there are commands given. So I'm still very confused as to the civil work you do.
Dont know if the question is for me.?
Cheryl civil was different than what my trainer did.
She was quiet with that big stick and nailed almost everyone with it.
She wore NO gear all defense most dogs did NOT have.
My trainer wears a apron and got loud and making a sssssshhhhhh sound to get the dogs attention. The dog did not fully come out until he tried to raised his stick to me. WHen he raised it at the dog or tried to get him to chase it -the dog did not care.
So my dog would of failed Cheryl test since.
Wwe use sticks and farm tools around here allot so they are not going to react unless it is a real threat.
My trainer did civil defense work with no hidden sleeve or gear just a apron.
Then he went up to a sleeve year later, then we tied him out when he was getting into it. After every session but the 1st 1 out of 20 .
The tester was able to approuch the dog and in most cases pet the dog..
Civil some people also define as the agiator wearing no protection gear.
Cheryl BTU is one of the BEST dog people I have ever met.
When she gave her safety class to the k9 pro sports crowd you could here a pin drop it was like EF hutton speaking.
I ALSO AGREE never PUSH the dog EVER..
Some trainers or testors want to break a dog .
Cheryl civil was different than what my trainer did.
She was quiet with that big stick and nailed almost everyone with it.
She wore NO gear all defense most dogs did NOT have.
My trainer wears a apron and got loud and making a sssssshhhhhh sound to get the dogs attention. The dog did not fully come out until he tried to raised his stick to me. WHen he raised it at the dog or tried to get him to chase it -the dog did not care.
So my dog would of failed Cheryl test since.
Wwe use sticks and farm tools around here allot so they are not going to react unless it is a real threat.
My trainer did civil defense work with no hidden sleeve or gear just a apron.
Then he went up to a sleeve year later, then we tied him out when he was getting into it. After every session but the 1st 1 out of 20 .
The tester was able to approuch the dog and in most cases pet the dog..
Civil some people also define as the agiator wearing no protection gear.
Cheryl BTU is one of the BEST dog people I have ever met.
When she gave her safety class to the k9 pro sports crowd you could here a pin drop it was like EF hutton speaking.
I ALSO AGREE never PUSH the dog EVER..
Some trainers or testors want to break a dog .
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My dobe has shown me he would.
My beagle also has
My husky I wonder about but I've never really been in a situation with her were she would need to so I don't know.
I'm not sure about my corgi and the new rescue we have in. I think they are both kinda oblivious to some things-but I know my corgi would try to protect my bf at least from other dogs cuz shes done that before
My beagle also has
My husky I wonder about but I've never really been in a situation with her were she would need to so I don't know.
I'm not sure about my corgi and the new rescue we have in. I think they are both kinda oblivious to some things-but I know my corgi would try to protect my bf at least from other dogs cuz shes done that before
W
This is why i don't like talking about these things on the internet. All of our dogs are stable, they aren't at large dangerous biting dogs. Being "civil" to me is more than turning on and off, its very intesive training. more than stick hits and no bites. More than not having a visible sleeve. It takes a strong dog, talented helper and handler. One of those three is often missing in the equation and the result often is a dangerous dog, which is why a lot of clubs don't do "civil" training for just anybody and its usually not done during club times. That was the point I was making. It has nothing to do with our dogs not being social or being dangerous, that isn't true.
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Oh no, I in no way thought you were saying the dogs weren't social/stable, I took it more as you saying that the ways you've seen civil trained has developed unstable dogs, which done the wrong way it definitely can . . . any bitework can when trained improperly.
That's the thing, I train personal protection and I am very proud of it because of the way that we train BUT whenever I hear of someone who is training PP work I cringe and my stomach twists because for every fantastic PP trainer there are about 200 bad ones who are focussed on making "attack" dogs, and dogs so that the handler looks like a bad-ass . . . dangerous dogs.
And yes, it does take a little extra handling to have a PP dog because it is trained specifically for the real world scenarios. The dog doesn't see the field, the sleeve, the whip, and only turn on then. They have to be on at all times, and I as a handler have to be extra aware of my surroundings.
I will say, I'm excited to be doing sport work with this puppy instead of PP because I feel like having 2 PP dogs would be a little much to deal with!
That's the thing, I train personal protection and I am very proud of it because of the way that we train BUT whenever I hear of someone who is training PP work I cringe and my stomach twists because for every fantastic PP trainer there are about 200 bad ones who are focussed on making "attack" dogs, and dogs so that the handler looks like a bad-ass . . . dangerous dogs.
And yes, it does take a little extra handling to have a PP dog because it is trained specifically for the real world scenarios. The dog doesn't see the field, the sleeve, the whip, and only turn on then. They have to be on at all times, and I as a handler have to be extra aware of my surroundings.
I will say, I'm excited to be doing sport work with this puppy instead of PP because I feel like having 2 PP dogs would be a little much to deal with!