Why I Dont Neuter

[sparks19]

Absolutely right. There are also many people out there who can drive a semi tractor trailer, but we do not just take their word for it, they need to pass a test and get a license.

The two issues are not exactly the same. If a semi gets out of control people die, if an intact dog does only dogs can get killed.

OC_Spirit, I thought your answer about what it takes to responsibly keep intact dogs was great, and I do believe you have the knowlege and facilities to do it right. I do not think that is true for the vast majority of owners, like me.

Point is dogs are property and we have the right to do what we want with them. I just hope people reading your posts take the warnings as seriously as the benefits.

LOL what kind of test would you propose?

Knowledge does not equal common sense.

 

[ACooper]

Information is a very good thing, but it can be used by "john Q idiot" the pet owner, to give perfectly good reasoning to himself for saving that speuter $$ and feel totally justified for it.

That is not aimed at any responsible pet owner that truly takes care & precautions with their dogs, but we all know the "john Q idiot" types!

 

[Laurelin]

We're half neutered and half not over here and it's no harder to keep intact dogs than altered ones imo. All our dogs are always supervised and never let out wandering- and they wouldn't be let to wander if they were all neutered either. It's not hard to keep two intact dogs of opposite genders from having oops litters- you put one in one room and one in another. When Nik and Treywere under a year they were both intact during Nik's first heat. It was a bit of a hassle, but if you're being responsible, it's easy to keep oops litters from happening.

Both my show dogs are intact and will remain intact at least for some time to come.

 

[sam]

I understand what your saying, but my point was just that you could very well own an intact dog and be responsible enough to prevent it from having "whoopsie" litters. LOL. It doesn't suit your lifestyle (as it doesn't mine) but the point is that your responsible enough to be able to have an intact dog, as are many on this board. The fact that they chose to s/n is besides the point.

I think aside from behavioural issues, or not wanting to deal with heats etc, the number one reason that most people condone speutering is to prevent unwanted or un-NEEDED (had to make up a word there) litters. Something that the average joe pet owner doesn't fully understand so therefore they should s/n.

The educated responsible pet owner could come up with a million reasons other than unwanted puppies to s/n, but all I'm trying to say is that there are people out there, that can responsibly keep an intact dog.

I agree with you and I said that in my post.

Lots of my dog nerd friends have intact dogs because they do some conformation showing or are / have been breeders. They do it responsibly and eventually they do speuter when the dog is older and the health problems associated with NOT speutering become a much more serious risk.
*I* just can't do it with *my* current breed choices and lifestyle (it's hard enough to have a youing family and have high intensity heridng dogs -- I could NOT add another element of work and complication to that mix! ) and I don't think the health issues are really an issue UNLESS you speuter early.

 

[RetrieverLove]

That was an interesting read however, I still do not agree. I believe that it is one of those things where people try to prove incorrect facts simply to be controversial. All of those "facts" that I just read on the downside of neutering sound like they were made up by someone who wasnt able to neuter their dogs and tried to justify it by throwing out every possible incorrect fact.

 

[Sugardog]

I can't really imagine a dog coming to me unneutered with a problem with anesthetic. Anesthesia has come so far and a dog's first anesthetic is typically his neuter/ spay.

Sighthounds can be sensitive to anesthesia, keep that in mind.

I have a friend who breeds Borzois and they can be so sensitive to anesthesia that she tole me it is usually recommended to keep a borzoi intact to avoid the surgery. It can be a real risk for some dogs of that breed. She has a male who is, I believe 9 now, who was not breeding quality and wasn't to be bred. She only recently neutered him, about 2 years ago, because she was going to have a stud and intact female in the house for breeding and showing.

So most sighthound breeds are more sensitive to anesthesia, the degree of sensitivity depends on the individual dog and it's breeding/background.

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Before I got my computer about two years ago I was doing my own research on early spay/neuter by just grooming dogs and being a vet tech I noticed a huge difference in lets say Rottweilers for example....I would have an intact male rott in my shop/office and what a HUGE difference in build, head, and muscle tone in that intact male then lets say a male that was fixed at 6 months or 9 months. Even some of the better bred Golden retrievers I see that are intact have nice square heads. Once I came on some dog forums my own personal observations became clear. Talking to other dog owners/breeders I found that if you leave your male intact until 2 or 3 years your dog grows and matures better. Caiza was supposed to be shown but that didn't work out. However, I didn't plan on fixing him anyways til the age of 2 or 3. I haven't owned an "intact" male in years and I will admit that I have made one mistake and that was just a couple of weeks ago out for our usual hike. I was talking to a man with an Anatolian Shepard "neutered" male and him an Caiza were both loose and started playing, chasing eachother, and having a blast. Caiza was following him all over the place when all of a sudden they disappeared over a mountain top onto another trail. Do I think Caiza took off on me because he has his testicles....NO, his recall up until that day was always 100 % and I think it had more to do with him getting dis-oriented up on a different trail and he freaked because he couldn't find or see me. Anyways, since then he has been on a 25 ft flexi leash when we go hiking because it only took that one time to not trust him. I haven't ruled out the fact that maybe it had something to do with his gonad's but I don't blame what happened with him on just that I'm looking at the whole picture of the matter

 

[Kase]

Casey wasn't spayed until she was 4, my parents choice, not that we would have ever bred her but my Grandad had never spayed/neutered his dogs and advised my parents against it. They listened to him at first which is why she wasn't done until she was 4. I will neuter/spay my next dogs but I would like to wait until they are mature before I do so. I have been reading about ferrets a lot recently and some where on the net someone mentioned that ferrets in the USA have more adrenal problems (something along those lines anyway) than ferrets in the UK and they thought it was because ferrets in the USA were spayed/neutered at a much younger age.

 

[DanL]

Red ACD, that is exactly the reason Gunnar isn't fixed yet. We want him to obtain full growth with all his parts intact. He just turned 2, we won't consider it til he's at least 3. Knock on wood, he doesn't wander, jump the fence, or have any other bad habits that people associate with an intact male. He barely marks, just certain trees and stuff in the yard. Bruzer, who was fixed at 5 months, is horrible with marking, and has been his whole life. He'll spend his entire time outside literally marking things from every direction he can. Squirt on a blade of grass, turn around, sniff, hit it again. I swear half the time nothing comes out. I've never seen him actually take a good pee like Gunnar does, it's like he saves it up.

Gunnar's recall is great, even with distractions of other dogs, and we do plenty of off leash things around the house and yard where if he wanted to bolt he could. If I'm out puttering around in the garage, I can open the door, and he'll sit right on the driveway and watch things go by, or I can go out in the yard and to chores and he'll tag along with me. (he actually will help carry sticks). Our late Midnite, who was fixed at 6 months, could not be trusted off leash at all until the last few months of her life, and then that was only because she simply didn't have the physical ability to run away. Poor training on our part. We didn't make that mistake with training and discipline on Gunnar, and we won't with Daisy either. I think that the training part is the most important thing, and that a well trained dog, whether intact or not is less likely overall to develop bad habits.

 

[BostonBanker]

Meg has so much muscle people already mistake her for a male, and she was spayed at about 1 1/2 years! If she had been done at six months, perhaps I would have a weight pull champion.

I have always been pro-neuter, and still am. I think the (proven) health benefits are a bit of a draw - some risks are lowered when you neuter, some are if you leave intact.

After all my years of saying that nobody other than breeders should have intact dogs, I thought I'd found the exception to the rule. Someone I know has one intact male and a spayed female. Now, the male isn't intact for any good reasons, but I didn't see any way there could be a problem. There is no fenced in yard - if the dog is outside, it is leashed 100% of the time. Not really a life I would choose for my own dog, but it seems like a "safe" way to keep an intact dog. Until their female jumped on the screen door and broke it, and both dogs ran out. The male was missing overnight before he was found. Oops. Not worth the risk to me.

Dogs left intact longer will have more secondary sex characteristics, obviously. But I'd rather know my dog was incapable of contributing to overpopulation than have a nice blocky head.

The lifestyle I want for my dogs, combined with my own beliefs, will not allow me to own an intact dog of breeding age. I want my dog to be able to hike off-leash - I don't believe it is ever "safe" to have an intact dog loose. My dog goes everywhere with me - horse shows, work, road trips. I can not rely on everyone else to keep their dogs either neutered or under control, so it doesn't work for me.

 

[Maxy24]

Dogs left intact longer will have more secondary sex characteristics, obviously. But I'd rather know my dog was incapable of contributing to overpopulation than have a nice blocky head.

I completely agree! I don't have a fenced in yard and even if I did if there was a bitch in heat in the neighborhood and I had in intact dog, I bet he would jump it or dig under it. If you are very responsible then yes you can keep an intact dog. All my dogs are gonna be shelter mutts who are gonna be pets and will be fixed when I get them. I don't care if they are beautiful examples of the breed, I'm not showing and don't care if people are constantly complimenting me on my beautiful dog, I'd much rather be complimented on my obedient, well behaved dog with a great personality. I also don't think I'll ever bring my dog to a dog park, it's too risky for me. What I'm mostly worried about is that people like this will see this post and feel they have done the right thing by having intact dogs: My uncle's friend got a lab puppy about a year ago. He said he was not gonna neuter him because he wanted him to have sex with some girl dogs so he could feel like a man. One day their kids left the door open and the pup ran out and got run over by a logging truck and died. These people then went out and got another lad this time a female. They also left her intact and she got out and they now believe she is pregnant. She is under a year old. I told my aunt that they can still get her fixed if she just got pregnant but she said they would never get her fixed, they are too cheap. These people also have many cats who they often forget to feed, and don't give them water, they drink out of the toilet. So these people are going to have their puppy give birth, and she could very well die along with the pups, then they are gonna sell them on the side of the road, I really wish their was something I could do, and that they had fixed their dogs. My fear is that these types of people will see what you have written and choose to keep their dogs intact because it is safer, which for many people it is not. Either way the dog can get some type of cancers and either way their are medical problems associated with your decision. My dogs will always be neutered.

 

[DanL]

What I'm mostly worried about is that people like this will see this post and feel they have done the right thing by having intact dogs: My uncle's friend ...snip... My fear is that these types of people will see what you have written and choose to keep their dogs intact because it is safer, which for many people it is not.

I don't think you have to worry about people like that seeing this post. Those kind of people don't care enough about their dogs to read internet forums about dog care, and they already have their minds made up to allow poor choices to be made with their dogs.

 

[dr2little]

Sighthounds can be sensitive to anesthesia, keep that in mind.

I have a friend who breeds Borzois and they can be so sensitive to anesthesia that she tole me it is usually recommended to keep a borzoi intact to avoid the surgery. It can be a real risk for some dogs of that breed. She has a male who is, I believe 9 now, who was not breeding quality and wasn't to be bred. She only recently neutered him, about 2 years ago, because she was going to have a stud and intact female in the house for breeding and showing.

So most sighthound breeds are more sensitive to anesthesia, the degree of sensitivity depends on the individual dog and it's breeding/background.

We spay/neuter all of our greyhounds prior to adoption. Using a vet who is familiar with the breed takes the risk down significantly and when you consider the risks associated with not speutering...it's really not an issue.

 

[Cassie Abbott]

For the average Joe & Jane American it's not practical to keep an intact dog. These people care less about how typey their dog is and more about how convenient it is to keep their dog. They don't want the hassle of keeping an intact female and don't want the potential problems of an intact male. In cases where the owner is less fanatical about dogs than the rest of us here and just wants a pet for the kids, early neutering (6-9 mo) should be enocuraged IMO. I also support it in rescue/shelter situations.

Did anyone else with an intact female notice that she calmed down significantly after her first heat? I noticed that with my Cane Corso, which led me to decide that early spaying is definitely not something I'd go for. Personally I'd have to do more research before I took a real stance on the issue, but I'd definitely lean more toward keeping the dog intact until it reached maturity. In the end I do think that any dog not intended to be bred should be neutered, altho that could be delayed until maturity.

Every time I see the word "speuter" I want to gag.

 

[ToscasMom]

 

[snowflake]

For those who advise against neutering and speying - view below - all it takes is one "accident", one misinformed person, one non caring owner etc....
I appreciate your opinions however its not practical for your average pet owner not to have it done.


http://www.brightlion.com/inhope.aspx

Helen

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

While the "average" joe, john, dick, or harry should have there dog neutered we all know when it comes to a man owning a male dog it 9 times out of 10 doesn't get done I used to see it all the time at my grooming shop and vets office. I would ask why isn't your dog fixed? And the answer would always be........I can't do that to his "manhood" give me a break! I'm in no way shape or form against S/N and will have it done at the age I feel ready for my boy to have his boy's removed I think the majority of us chazzers know a great deal more than the average pet owner out there and we are educated enough to keep an "intact" pet if we so choose until we feel it is right for them to be fixed .

 

[dogsarebetter]

i would like to think we are not the average dog owners.
HERE average dog owners do not have fixed dogs, feed Purina etc, have dogs chained up, would never dream of taking their dog to obedience, does not socialize their dog, and worse yet they let there dogs run loose

 

[Saje]

I think the average pet owner agrees that spaying and neutering (or just neutering for Melanie ) is best. But we have a lot of members on this forum who compete either in sledding or shows and often can not neuter if they want to continue competing. Also, people who want to be responsible breeders need to let their dogs mature so they can decide if they are breeding quality or not.

Offhand, of all the chaz members who don't neuter I can't think of one who I think is being irresponsible.

I know Ren, the OP, is a responsible dog owner and her dogs aren't just 'pets.' I don't agree with everything in her original post but I do know that she has done her research, is responsible and takes good care of her dogs. That's about all I need to know!

 

[DanL]

Red, while your observation on intact males with male owners may be true, it is NOT the case with me. I explained my reasons for leaving him intact above. Bruzer is neutered, and every dog I ever had, male or female, except for Gunnar was neutered. We made the decision based on research and information given to us by trainers, police trainers, and other people who have had exposure to both intact and neutered dogs and how it affected their growth. I also like his temperament, and I don't want to take any risk on changing it, for better or worse. So, I might never neuter him, but it has nothing to do with manhood.

My brother in law is EXACTLY as you describe. He has a horribly trained Jack Russell who marks, humps everything, and is only intact because he doesn't want him to lose his manhood.