When is the good time to spay?
- Thread starter M&M's Mommy
- Start date
Doberkim, I'm very surprised that you said this, because just a little looking around shows this to be dangerously untrue. For example:
(From an earlier post by me: )
2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
...there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches, and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs ...
"...bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months ... those spayed at 7 months had significantly delayed closure of the growth plates ...
...bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.
....Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions ...an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. ... the lower leg below the stifle becomes heavier (because it is longer), causing increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament.
...spayed and neutered dogs have a higher incidence of CCL rupture.
...dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age.
...dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer, a cancer that is much more life-threatening than mammary cancer, and that affects both genders.
...Despite the common belief that neutering dogs helps prevent prostate cancer, at least one study suggests that neutering provides no benefit.
...in dogs neutered or spayed before 5 1/2 months ... an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors.
...American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation reported significantly more behavioral problems in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs. The most commonly observed behavioral problem in spayed females was fearful behavior and the most common problem in males was aggression."
(From earlier post by Doberluv: )
...castrated dogs have up to a four-time greater risk of developing prostate cancer then intact dogs.
...Neutered or spayed dogs have a one-half to threefold higher risk for developing bladder tumors and twice the risk of developing osteosarcoma as compared to intact dogs.
...dogs that underwent gonadectomy before 1 year of age had an approximate one in four lifetime risk for osteosarcoma and were significantly more likely to develop a tumor then dogs that were sexually intact.
....Alternatively, gonadectomized female and male dogs live longer then sexually intact dogs, which might be expected to contribute to a higher overall cancer incidence associated with gonadectomy reported by others.
....So do we neuter dogs at an early age to prevent breast and testicular cancer but place them at risk for hemangiosarcomas, osteosarcoma, bladder or prostate cancer?
Deciding whether to spay/castrate our pre-pubescent furkids is not a simple matter; the choice is not inconsequential.
Del.
(From an earlier post by me: )
2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
...there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches, and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs ...
"...bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months ... those spayed at 7 months had significantly delayed closure of the growth plates ...
...bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.
....Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions ...an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. ... the lower leg below the stifle becomes heavier (because it is longer), causing increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament.
...spayed and neutered dogs have a higher incidence of CCL rupture.
...dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age.
...dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer, a cancer that is much more life-threatening than mammary cancer, and that affects both genders.
...Despite the common belief that neutering dogs helps prevent prostate cancer, at least one study suggests that neutering provides no benefit.
...in dogs neutered or spayed before 5 1/2 months ... an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors.
...American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation reported significantly more behavioral problems in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs. The most commonly observed behavioral problem in spayed females was fearful behavior and the most common problem in males was aggression."
(From earlier post by Doberluv: )
...castrated dogs have up to a four-time greater risk of developing prostate cancer then intact dogs.
...Neutered or spayed dogs have a one-half to threefold higher risk for developing bladder tumors and twice the risk of developing osteosarcoma as compared to intact dogs.
...dogs that underwent gonadectomy before 1 year of age had an approximate one in four lifetime risk for osteosarcoma and were significantly more likely to develop a tumor then dogs that were sexually intact.
....Alternatively, gonadectomized female and male dogs live longer then sexually intact dogs, which might be expected to contribute to a higher overall cancer incidence associated with gonadectomy reported by others.
....So do we neuter dogs at an early age to prevent breast and testicular cancer but place them at risk for hemangiosarcomas, osteosarcoma, bladder or prostate cancer?
Deciding whether to spay/castrate our pre-pubescent furkids is not a simple matter; the choice is not inconsequential.
Del.
chris's "review" is not an original paper - her studies are not listed in the fullest, and i have read chris's "Review" many times.
ive gone into that HD study, the OSA study, and the others numerous times. none of them are studies that would stand up if zinks' had given all the information
just because someone witha DVM wrote it, doesnt mean its right (otherwise all my posts would be gospel)
ive gone into that HD study, the OSA study, and the others numerous times. none of them are studies that would stand up if zinks' had given all the information
just because someone witha DVM wrote it, doesnt mean its right
(otherwise all my posts would be gospel)for instance, the Osteosarcoma study is ONLY in rotties - a breed that has an EXTREMELY high risk of OSA to begin with. would a study about DCM (a genetic heart condition in dobes) affect what happens in labs? why shoudl a study that showed neutered rotties got OSA at higher rates than any other, affect what age we spay at?
and lets not forget what you guys are thinking the word significant means, and what it means in a scientific sense (p values and such).
chris of course never mentions this info
and lets not forget what you guys are thinking the word significant means, and what it means in a scientific sense (p values and such).
chris of course never mentions this info
Ok, so which is right than? If I were to get Holly spayed at six months is that worse than getting her spayed at one year? I always get my animals fixed around 6 months (except our one cat Milo got fixed at 3 months). I wanted to get Holly spayed at 6 months, but should I wait for a year. I do not want her to go into her first heat though I want her to get spayed prior to that.
Doberkim, true what you say re 'statistical significance' - doesn't necessarily mean 'practical significance'...or it might, depending!! I haven't gone back to the original studies to assess that myself.
(i.e. I know what you mean, but not sure how to explain it in brief for others. e.g. A 0.5% difference can be 's.s'. but not 'p.s.' ... and "5 x negligible" is very different from "5 x something" in terms of the 'p.s.' of "5 x" to decision-making! etc.)
Still, the essential point is that it's not absolute that early spay is a good thing, and might be the opposite. Personally I wouldn't want to stop my fur-sons and fur-daughters from maturing, so waiting until 7-14 months seems to me like an appropriately cautious middle ground.
Del.
(i.e. I know what you mean, but not sure how to explain it in brief for others. e.g. A 0.5% difference can be 's.s'. but not 'p.s.' ... and "5 x negligible" is very different from "5 x something" in terms of the 'p.s.' of "5 x" to decision-making! etc.)
Still, the essential point is that it's not absolute that early spay is a good thing, and might be the opposite. Personally I wouldn't want to stop my fur-sons and fur-daughters from maturing, so waiting until 7-14 months seems to me like an appropriately cautious middle ground.
Del.
As for the original topic, I am all for pediatric speuters. Some people who adopt out of shelters cannot be trusted to spay neuter on time, or to carefully watch their girl if she does come into heat.
Its better to get them speutered and into homes at 8 weeks then to leave them at the shelter 6 months (impossible) to speuter, or adopt them out intact and trust the person to speuter.
My girls are not spayed, but my Collie bitch will be getting spayed soon. I preferred to wait until she was older, because I felt that for her particular case those hormones would do her good, and I believe they have.
Its better to get them speutered and into homes at 8 weeks then to leave them at the shelter 6 months (impossible) to speuter, or adopt them out intact and trust the person to speuter.
My girls are not spayed, but my Collie bitch will be getting spayed soon. I preferred to wait until she was older, because I felt that for her particular case those hormones would do her good, and I believe they have.
I do pediatric altering on all animals. I have just been learning that maybe it is a better idea to wait a little longer on dogs, as my experience is mostly with cats which are ALWAYS done at 2lbs. Never never ever wait until 6 months esp with siblings. But dogs I don't have a ton of experience with. I have adopted an older dog who was already done. I have known two others who were 4 years old and unneutered and all they did was mark all over the owners homes.
IF I ever get a puppy, I will probaby do it at 6 months or so, definately before the first heat.
IF I ever get a puppy, I will probaby do it at 6 months or so, definately before the first heat.
With any rescues or dogs that have come form something less than great I say alter them right away. But if the owner can really be counted on then I think they should wait till the dog is fully mature. That meeans they accept responcibility for that pet and if it gets knocked up they get it taken care of by an immediate spay. So if an owner has any issue with doggie abortion they should spay asap.I know it sounds weird to hear that but people really get upitty about it.
Julie-- Is it a berneese you ended up getting? I would wait untill the dog is fully grown but the best place would be to contact the breeder. What type of cancers have run in the dogs line? Look at which is more risky,early spay or is mammary cancer something that strikes early in the line? I've looked into the breed a lot and from what I have seen I would allow the dog its full use of hormones to grow properly till probally twoish and then I would spay. Yes-you deal with some heats but i would be less worried about dysplacias and bone cancers so its worth it. On the other hand if the breeder says mammary or ovarian cancer is the risk in her line I would spay early. But thats not the biggest cancer risk wth them.
I think its better for the dog to wait,but if it means the dog gets pregnant or impregnates another then they need altered asap.
Julie-- Is it a berneese you ended up getting? I would wait untill the dog is fully grown but the best place would be to contact the breeder. What type of cancers have run in the dogs line? Look at which is more risky,early spay or is mammary cancer something that strikes early in the line? I've looked into the breed a lot and from what I have seen I would allow the dog its full use of hormones to grow properly till probally twoish and then I would spay. Yes-you deal with some heats but i would be less worried about dysplacias and bone cancers so its worth it. On the other hand if the breeder says mammary or ovarian cancer is the risk in her line I would spay early. But thats not the biggest cancer risk wth them.
I think its better for the dog to wait,but if it means the dog gets pregnant or impregnates another then they need altered asap.