The Realities of Dog Fighting
- Thread starter pitbulliest
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pitbulliest said:
Rottiegirl..I'm just confused by your lack of understanding here...
"You say that dogs bred for dog fighting are supposed to be human friendly, but the people who fight dogs are usually young punks, and all they know is that they want their dogs to be aggressive." - Have you ever seen a dog fight? I encourage you to watch some documentaries on dog fighting..even the biggest loser punks want to ensure that they can have physical contact with their dogs when their in the ring...this is no excuse to put fighting pits to sleep..each and every dog should be temperament tested...that should determine whether they are adoptable or not..... not their dog fighting history...
"As for the vets, one vet that agrees with puting fighting dogs down is the vet on "animal cops" " - Yes, and she's from a city that has bylaws that require shelters to euthanize all fighting pits...so I guess she's now the pitbull guru then, right? *sigh*... and what about the other vets and animal behaviorists on animal cops and AROUND THE FRICKEN WORLD that don't agree with it? I guess they shouldn't be mentioned though...
"Plus, those breeds are not the problem." - They were about a decade ago, when every junkyard dog was a Doberman or a Rottie...and every snarling dog on T.V was one of those breeds. They "were the problem"...but since then I guess people moved onto the pit...and eventually, they'll get bored of that. Do you see my point? Its very easy to point fingers at one breed and say, "these are the problem!"...
Police officers use german shepherds and rotties to attack.- So do drug dealers.... and nazi's used them during WW2 to eat people. But its ok, cuz they're not pits
"You are assuming that all fighting pit bulls are only dog aggressive, but that is not so." - I didn't say that.... I said that just because dogs are animal aggressive, its no reason to euth them! If a dog is human aggressive, that's a different story..but according to your last couple of posts, all fighting pits need to be euthanized because they're dangerous... why didn't you just say that dogs that possess human aggressive should be assessed and euthanized if there's a problem.
"Even if fighting pits were not put down, I think they should atleast be put through temperment tests. So what does not make sence?" - At least we agree on something! ...and that goes for EVERY dog by the way..
"You say that dogs bred for dog fighting are supposed to be human friendly, but the people who fight dogs are usually young punks, and all they know is that they want their dogs to be aggressive." - Have you ever seen a dog fight? I encourage you to watch some documentaries on dog fighting..even the biggest loser punks want to ensure that they can have physical contact with their dogs when their in the ring...this is no excuse to put fighting pits to sleep..each and every dog should be temperament tested...that should determine whether they are adoptable or not..... not their dog fighting history...
"As for the vets, one vet that agrees with puting fighting dogs down is the vet on "animal cops" " - Yes, and she's from a city that has bylaws that require shelters to euthanize all fighting pits...so I guess she's now the pitbull guru then, right? *sigh*... and what about the other vets and animal behaviorists on animal cops and AROUND THE FRICKEN WORLD that don't agree with it? I guess they shouldn't be mentioned though...
"Plus, those breeds are not the problem." - They were about a decade ago, when every junkyard dog was a Doberman or a Rottie...and every snarling dog on T.V was one of those breeds. They "were the problem"...but since then I guess people moved onto the pit...and eventually, they'll get bored of that. Do you see my point? Its very easy to point fingers at one breed and say, "these are the problem!"...
Police officers use german shepherds and rotties to attack.- So do drug dealers.... and nazi's used them during WW2 to eat people. But its ok, cuz they're not pits
"You are assuming that all fighting pit bulls are only dog aggressive, but that is not so." - I didn't say that.... I said that just because dogs are animal aggressive, its no reason to euth them! If a dog is human aggressive, that's a different story..but according to your last couple of posts, all fighting pits need to be euthanized because they're dangerous... why didn't you just say that dogs that possess human aggressive should be assessed and euthanized if there's a problem.
"Even if fighting pits were not put down, I think they should atleast be put through temperment tests. So what does not make sence?" - At least we agree on something! ...and that goes for EVERY dog by the way..
Police officers do not use dogs to attack. The correct word is apprehend.
They are not attack dogs, they are apprehension dogs. And protection dogs.
A good police dog does not attack people. The dog protects his partner and apprehends suspects. Not Attack.
And comparing a drug dealers dog to a well trained police K9 is like comparing apples and oranges.
That really is the only thing in this whole thread I wanted to comment on.
Julie.
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I agree. You cannot guarantee that just because somebody is on TV that they know what they're doing. I saw an episode of Animal Cops where a cop was insisting that a male dog was a pit bull....looking at the dog, it was obvious it was and American bulldog.
My German Shepherd/Border Collie mix is dog aggressive. Despite the fact that she loves and is great with little kids, knows all of her basic commands plus more (and obeys 98% of the time), we are working on her dog agression and she is getting much better, she is very gentle, and a bunch of other things, I should have her euthanized? Euthanizing a dog because it is aggressive towards other dogs I find stupid. With training you can manage and sometimes get rid of animal aggression. I am working with my dog aggressive dog and she is getting better. Human aggression is different. A dog should not be aggressive towards humans. Some you can train out of it, but you should never completely trust a human aggressive dog, and if a dog is so aggressive towards humans that it will go as far as to attack, I think euthanasia is a good idea.
My German Shepherd/Border Collie mix is dog aggressive. Despite the fact that she loves and is great with little kids, knows all of her basic commands plus more (and obeys 98% of the time), we are working on her dog agression and she is getting much better, she is very gentle, and a bunch of other things, I should have her euthanized? Euthanizing a dog because it is aggressive towards other dogs I find stupid. With training you can manage and sometimes get rid of animal aggression. I am working with my dog aggressive dog and she is getting better. Human aggression is different. A dog should not be aggressive towards humans. Some you can train out of it, but you should never completely trust a human aggressive dog, and if a dog is so aggressive towards humans that it will go as far as to attack, I think euthanasia is a good idea.
R
No, I never once said that all pits are aggressive toward people because its in their blood. Training and how you raise the dog is a big factor too. What I am saying is that irresponible breeders do not take the genetics into account like they should. It is true that you should not breed two people aggressive dogs because they can pass down those traits. This goes for any breed. The whole reason why some pits attack people is because alot of people who fight and breed pits dont know the difference between people aggression and dog aggression. They just breed the dogs who seem more dominant and aggressive without taking in acount whether the dog is people aggressive or not. I happend to do loads of research on genetics, so I know what I am talking about. You are pretty much saying that breeds are not born with sertain characteristics that was bred into them, once again, labs were not taught to lave water, they were born with it! The same goes for terriers who were bred to kill other animals. You say that I am trying to talk bad about pits, but the same goes for rotties, dobes, and GSDs. Those breeds have been problems in the past, due to inexperienced ignorant breeders who only breed for aggression because they think that will make them a better guard dog. I am not the ignorant one here, you are. Go take a genetics class and then you can open your mouth.
R
Its all on the owner?? How can you say that when the breeders play a huge role??? The owner does effect how the dog acts, in a big way. But the irresponsible breeders are the ones who are completely ruining the breed. If a breeder has a lack of knowledge about breeding and getetics they are going to screw up the breeds temperment. You are correct that no breed attacks. When a dog does attack it has to do with their genetics, they way they were raised, the way they were trained, the way they were treated, and many other factors. It just happends that too many people breed pits to make them aggressive, or they breed them without knowing what they are doing. This is a people problem, and the breed is the one suffering for all of the ignorance!!! The reason why many toy dogs are aggressive is because the breeders are not worried as much about their temperment because they couldnt do much harm if they did attack. Irresponsible toy breeders only care about looks.
my cute dog comes from a breeder that does dog fighting. and i watched my pit's mother fight against another pit and she was furious up to the point that she nearly killed the other dog (it was really horrible, i was nearly in tears, that is why when he told me he can't take care of the puppies and he's going to dispose them, kill them, i told them i'll get one). oh anyway, the poor dog only wants to make her owner proud and happy, besides that i haven't seen the dog becomes aggro even when the breeder's little boy is whacking her with a toy balloon, it just lies down. so i would agree that its the handler's fault that dog's becomes agro.
and regarding my dog, i haven't seen any problems on her. she's a very happy dog.
and regarding my dog, i haven't seen any problems on her. she's a very happy dog.
You don't understand.
Breeders MAY create them. But who buys them? Owners. Who makes them aggressive? Owners.
Even if they have terrible, terrible bloodlines it means that they're MORE easily prone to turn to aggressive tendencies. But who brings those on them? Owners.
You are right though, breeders produce them, but they wouldn't if the owners wouldn't buy them.
It all eventually boils down to the owners.
Breeders MAY create them. But who buys them? Owners. Who makes them aggressive? Owners.
Even if they have terrible, terrible bloodlines it means that they're MORE easily prone to turn to aggressive tendencies. But who brings those on them? Owners.
You are right though, breeders produce them, but they wouldn't if the owners wouldn't buy them.
It all eventually boils down to the owners.
R
Yeah the owners play a huge role, and they do bring out the aggressive tendancies by not socializing, training, and treating the dog right. But if the breeders would stop breeding aggressive dogs, the owners wouldnt inadvertently be bringing out the aggressive behaviour, because the characteristic wouldnt be there to start with! Yes, most pups are not born with it, they are born with aggressive tendancies and it could take alot of training to get rid of that characteristic. Many novice owners bring out the aggressivenes without even knowing it. I personaly think it starts with irresponsible breeding with irresponsible owners playing a huge part, but that is just my personal opinion. If there were more responsible pit owners like there are lab owners, this really wouldnt be as much of a problem. I know that the owners play a big part in this, but it is alot harder to make a well bred pit into a people aggressive dog than it is to make a very poor bred pit into a people aggressive dog. Poor bred pits have unstable temperments while well bred pits have a very sound temperment. A good pit would never ever attack a human being
Julie..regarding your comment:
They are not attack dogs, they are apprehension dogs. And protection dogs.
A good police dog does not attack people. The dog protects his partner and apprehends suspects. Not Attack.
Have you ever seen a police dog in action? I'm sorry, but if the police uses the word "apprehend"..that's fine..although I agree that they are specially trained, the fact is that they can still cause alot of damage, and I guess that was my real point...and there are police dogs that have literally attacked people....I'm not sure if you've seen the interview with a police officer and a newscaster, where the german shepherd bit the guy in the face...they use the excuse that the dog was "protecting the officer"...? From what? A microphone? There was really no reason for that dog to bite the man in the face...and if the excuse "well he bent over the wrong way and the dog took it as a threat" is good enough..then what if the police officer's kid is bending over the wrong way?...Alot of those dogs are also family pets that live with the officers...
but anywho...my point with that example..although it might not have been the best one, is that any dog can be trained to attack, and can cause alot of damage..and its absolutely pathetic to point fingers and target pitbulls because thats what the media is doing...and everyone is jumping onto the bandwagon...excusing an attack by so and so breed because its not a pitbull is discrimination......but its only a matter of time before some other dog is on the list.
They are not attack dogs, they are apprehension dogs. And protection dogs.
A good police dog does not attack people. The dog protects his partner and apprehends suspects. Not Attack.
Have you ever seen a police dog in action? I'm sorry, but if the police uses the word "apprehend"..that's fine..although I agree that they are specially trained, the fact is that they can still cause alot of damage, and I guess that was my real point...and there are police dogs that have literally attacked people....I'm not sure if you've seen the interview with a police officer and a newscaster, where the german shepherd bit the guy in the face...they use the excuse that the dog was "protecting the officer"...? From what? A microphone? There was really no reason for that dog to bite the man in the face...and if the excuse "well he bent over the wrong way and the dog took it as a threat" is good enough..then what if the police officer's kid is bending over the wrong way?...Alot of those dogs are also family pets that live with the officers...
but anywho...my point with that example..although it might not have been the best one, is that any dog can be trained to attack, and can cause alot of damage..and its absolutely pathetic to point fingers and target pitbulls because thats what the media is doing...and everyone is jumping onto the bandwagon...excusing an attack by so and so breed because its not a pitbull is discrimination......but its only a matter of time before some other dog is on the list.
Yes, I have seen a police dog in action. Many many times as a matter of fact.
I am not familar with that attack. But I did say a "good police dog" And a good police dog will be under control at all times, unless the K9's master is being attacked, that is the only time a police K9 should react without command. In wv a police dog must recertify every year and that means it has to release on apprehension and call off before getting to the suspect.(among alot of other things) takes 4 days to get thru all the re-certs.
I am sure there are questionable police K9s, and they are the only ones to be talked about, not the K9s that do their jobs with dignity.
And you are right, there are alot of police K9s that live with the family and children included. Including my family. Our K9 lives in our home with our children (ages 3, 6, 15) and our labs too. I wouldn't have it any other way. I trust that dog completely with my children. I personally know 5 other K9 handlers well, and it is the same for them.
I don't think I ever said anything about a certain breed. But when you compare trained police K9s to drug dealers dogs, Aren't you in a way getting on the bandwagon and making police K9s look bad, just like many people do with pits? You own pits, I own a police dog. We both feel very strong about what our personal experiences have been. Although I have not degraded a whole breed, any breed for that matter. You have pretty much generalized cops and k9s.
I know alot of people are cop haters(not refering to you), but to the people who love them they are just regular people, well better than most regular people. They risk their lives everyday. And if you call for them they will come.
I have also been on the receiving end of a bite suit. Not with Rocket but with other police dogs. It really is a rush, and I trusted the handler to be able to control his dog, and trusted the training of the dog enough for him to listen to the call off.
Well anyway I hope you understand where I am coming from. I get your point of view too. But I have to base my opinions on past experiences and the only thing I wanted to comment on was the post having to do with police K9s and drug dealers.
I am not familar with that attack. But I did say a "good police dog" And a good police dog will be under control at all times, unless the K9's master is being attacked, that is the only time a police K9 should react without command. In wv a police dog must recertify every year and that means it has to release on apprehension and call off before getting to the suspect.(among alot of other things) takes 4 days to get thru all the re-certs.
I am sure there are questionable police K9s, and they are the only ones to be talked about, not the K9s that do their jobs with dignity.
And you are right, there are alot of police K9s that live with the family and children included. Including my family. Our K9 lives in our home with our children (ages 3, 6, 15) and our labs too. I wouldn't have it any other way. I trust that dog completely with my children. I personally know 5 other K9 handlers well, and it is the same for them.
I don't think I ever said anything about a certain breed. But when you compare trained police K9s to drug dealers dogs, Aren't you in a way getting on the bandwagon and making police K9s look bad, just like many people do with pits? You own pits, I own a police dog. We both feel very strong about what our personal experiences have been. Although I have not degraded a whole breed, any breed for that matter. You have pretty much generalized cops and k9s.
I know alot of people are cop haters(not refering to you), but to the people who love them they are just regular people, well better than most regular people. They risk their lives everyday. And if you call for them they will come.
I have also been on the receiving end of a bite suit. Not with Rocket but with other police dogs. It really is a rush, and I trusted the handler to be able to control his dog, and trusted the training of the dog enough for him to listen to the call off.
Well anyway I hope you understand where I am coming from. I get your point of view too. But I have to base my opinions on past experiences and the only thing I wanted to comment on was the post having to do with police K9s and drug dealers.
I already posted my regards to you and for some reason it didn't show up!
So I will do a shortened version.
I will never be a grandpa!!! Maybe a grandma, but not yet. My children are 3,6,and 15 years old. I am woman hear me roar!!!
About the ducks,
Are you a vegetarian? I am not. I would much rather get my meat from natural sources apposed to filthy cows and chickens raised in small pens and fed steroids.
If you check my freezer you will find: ducks, geese, deer, squirrels, rabbits, and farmed raised beef from local farmers that know my name!!
You, sir are the one that has conflicting posts from the start. I at least respect the game/meat I eat. I also have the same convictions thruout all my posts.
Unless you are a vegetarian, you have no reason to question my ducks!!
Especially coming from someone that posted pictures of two pits locked up. With no health tests, from "game" lines. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. You are such a better person.
So I will do a shortened version.
I will never be a grandpa!!! Maybe a grandma, but not yet. My children are 3,6,and 15 years old. I am woman hear me roar!!!
About the ducks,
Are you a vegetarian? I am not. I would much rather get my meat from natural sources apposed to filthy cows and chickens raised in small pens and fed steroids.
If you check my freezer you will find: ducks, geese, deer, squirrels, rabbits, and farmed raised beef from local farmers that know my name!!
You, sir are the one that has conflicting posts from the start. I at least respect the game/meat I eat. I also have the same convictions thruout all my posts.
Unless you are a vegetarian, you have no reason to question my ducks!!
Especially coming from someone that posted pictures of two pits locked up. With no health tests, from "game" lines. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. You are such a better person.