Quick food question

[Claybuster]

Clay, do ever have anything nice to say about a post on here? You only seem to come out when you think you have something to criticize. That's the mark of a great person right there.

Just chiming in, in defense of the underdog who is being IMO treated disrespectfully because of their choices. If that upsets you, sorry.

And you feed Abady. A food that prides itself on including by-products.

OK, you mentioned it, I'll elaborate. Yes, Abady does take advantage of economics within the marketplace. It is actually very beneficial for folks like you to continue to humanize your pets and please keep that yucky by-product mentality. You help keep down the costs in raw material down for people like me! My feed maker for the exact same cost can get up to three times as much in quantity. Being it is equally nutritious in regards to protein, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out the feed can deliver three times as much protein in the ration. Not all manufactures are willing to deliver 3 times as much for the same money; they'll keep it as profit. Abady does deliver more in regards to cals per cup than your standard commercial feed and by-product needs are a catalyst in getting the numbers up. In fact, it would probably be impossible for any manufacture to deliver over 800 cals per cup (up to 1500 in some formulas) without the use of by-product meals. I don't care about personal appeal and aesthetics in regards to delivering the protein. Yes, people do also eat the stuff as well. By-products are consumed in Asian countries (and there is billions more of them than us) that eat the heads, feet, and organ meat of chickens. It does not appeal to me, it obviously does not appeal to you, but I honestly think my dog could care less.

 

[Renee750il]

well, here is the thing my GS/lab will be weigh more than your two put together full grown, and you are suppose to feed based on full grown weight ( right now he weighs in at a very healthy 35-40lbs and he is only 3 months old... , so, for you that is all fine and dandy, but, for me, it will cost more, because cinni will weigh close to prolly 60lbs more or less depending on breed.

You're spending $150 on food for the pups as of now according to your earlier post, right?

I'm feeding a 125-130 pound athletic dog (Kharma) and a 65 pound athletic dog (Bimmer) EVO RM. I buy a 28.3 lb. bag about every 3-3.5 weeks, coming to roughly, with tax, around $75 per month - half what it's costing you.

 

[ihartgonzo]

:hail: if you would kindly read my post as to where my money goes, then you would see that i do the best i can do regardless of how much i make.. i provide what i can when i can

I understand that. But, do you realize that in the long-run you are not only spending MORE on dog food... but you are paying WAY too much for barely feed-grade ingredients? Seriously.

This run-down might be of interest to you: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors

You are feeding each of your pups 6 cups a day, right? That's what you said in another thread. 6 cups is TONS of kibble. On Canidae, the daily amount you would need to feed your puppies is 3 cups each. That equals half of what you're feeding now! Pedigree is approx $17 for a 40 lb bag. Canidae is approx $30 for a 40 lb bag.

If you do the math... you are actually SAVING money by feeding a higher quality kibble. And, most importantly, you are bettering the health of your dogs. You can't argue with that. (Or can you? *le sigh*)

 

[RD]

I haven't read this entire thread so pardon me if ths issue has been resolved.

A few bits of advice for Puppylover, from someone who probably has far less cash flow.

- Don't spend $60/month on toys. Buy toys in bulk online, (www.petedge.com is your friend) and spend $100-150 every 6 months. Buy mostly durable, interactive toys rather than fluffy squeaky ones that get destroyed in a matter of minutes. I have 5 dogs living in this house and I probably spend $200/year on Objects of Amusement for them. 2 of the dogs are Border Collies, very high-energy power-chewers. I am never low on essential toys. $60/month is $720 per year. Compare that to $300/year. $420 savings.

- Dog toothbrushes, dog toothpaste? Stop buying those, and spend $5/month on raw bones that will do a better job of cleaning their teeth. $120/yr or $60/yr? $60 savings

- You won't NEED as much shampoo and conditioner for your puppies if they eat a proper diet, because their coat will be healthy and soft on its own, and they will not have that "dog smell". If you want another way to save money on shampoo/conditioner, buy concentrated shampoo ONLINE in gallon jugs. You can get terrific shampoo and creme rinse this way, and a gallon of 22-to-1 shampoo should last you all year with your two short-coated dogs. A gallon of quality, concentrated shampoo is usually between $30 and $50. Let's say it costs $50. $50/year vs. $240/year. $190 savings.

- If you can't afford luxuries, you don't need to buy blankets and pillows for your dogs every month. Until my dogs stop chewing up the towels I put in their crates, they don't GET beds. No way am I going to spend $50 on something that's just going to get annihilated. $20/month on beds, or $5 month on old blankets and towels until your PUPPIES grow up and stop chewing on everything in their sight? You're wasting your money on pillows and such until these dogs grow up. $240/year vs. $60/year? $180 savings.

- I fail to see how you are coming up with $200/month for dog food alone. I'm feeding roughly 200lbs of dog (3 high energy athletes, and 2 older lazy kids) and a cat, and it costs about $80 (generously, in reality its probably less than that) to feed Innova EVO or Taste of the Wild and supplement with raw meat and bones.

In total, those few small budget changes will save you close to $1000/year. Your dogs will not be going without anything crucial to their health, and with that $1000/year you should be MORE than able to afford a better quality food than pedigree.

You are perfectly capable of giving your dogs a quality diet, you just choose to spend your money on other things. In total (for EVERYTHING) I think I spend about $80/month on my dog, Eve. She gets nothing but the best, and then some. Admittedly, I save money on pet insurance because my parents cover her vet bills for me (thus far it's been only routine vaccines and flea/tick/heartworm preventative) but still, per month it's only about $20 more for frontline and heartguard. Let's say she costs me $100/month.

But, if I was forced to choose between getting her new toys and giving her the nutrition she needs for good health, I'd rather scrounge for tennis balls at the park and know that she has what she needs for her body to function to the best of its ability. I can find ways to amuse her and it's not going to harm her if she's bored once in a while, but I don't want to compromise her health by feeding her Froot Loops (essentially what Beneful is!)

I'm not saying you should live in poverty to feed your dogs the best food possible, but what I AM saying is that you can make some positive changes to your pet budget to save a lot of money, which you can then spend on a better food. That way you're not spending money you don't have already. It's nice that you spoil your dogs with toys and treats, but you're neglecting them in what is quite possibly THE most important aspect of their health.

You are not going to find support for your choices in a group full of people who care about the well being of dogs. If you truly couldn't afford it, you'd find sympathy here. But this is your choice, not something you're forced into. Make the right choice for your babies.

 

[mrose_s]

great post RD, we're trying to track down a store that supplies Eagle pack but just can't find one. Thwy were on Natures Gift as their dry food but it's sort of a semi soft kibble, we swiched them to a mix of OPtimum and This organic stuff, they like it a lot more as its properly dry. I'm not so happy as I know its just another super market food but its not killing them till we find some better stuff.
Actually thinking about chucking them over to Royal Canan for the time being, but again, having trouble tracking down a supplier.
Considering their going through a 20L barrel of JUST DRY Food every 3 days between them (thats aside from about8 kilo's of meat and bones) we really need to find somewhere that sells in bulk as spending anywhere from $30 - $50 a week on dry food is unreal.

We have 3 high energy working breeds, one old big dog that we can't keep the weight on depsite out efforts. She's eating 7cups if biscuits a day plus 1/3-3/4 kilo of meat everyday and we keep the good food up to them.
They get bathed every2-4 weeks, we buy a small bottle of concentrated shampoo for $14 and it lasts us about 5 months between the four of them. A good diet keeps them healthy and bones every single day keeps their teeth clean

 

[Dekka]

You know Clay, when the Abady food came up a while ago I looked into it. The problem is you aren't comparing apples to apples. Abady says they don't use 4D meats etc. The by product meal that shows up in cheap kibble is often stuff that is deamed unfit for humans. When that happens it is coated in creosote (or if you are in Canada other chemicals) then shipped to make by products. By products also are not regulated. I have read reports, by the redering plants themselves. That chicken by product (or what ever kind) is not 100% chicken. Know what else is in there? Euth'd pets from large city shelters, meat that has gone off in the grocery store-still in its packaging!. So your pet gets all the goodness of the plastic and styrofoam, yummm. This is how pet foods test postive for pentobarbitol. It is not denatured in the redering process, and ends up in the pet food.

I feed raw. I have no issues with feeding my dog 'icky parts' I do have an issue with my dogs being fed diseased meat, creosote coated meat, and who knows what drugs.

 

[Claybuster]

You know Clay, when the Abady food came up a while ago I looked into it. The problem is you aren't comparing apples to apples. Abady says they don't use 4D meats etc. The by product meal that shows up in cheap kibble is often stuff that is deamed unfit for humans. When that happens it is coated in creosote (or if you are in Canada other chemicals) then shipped to make by products. By products also are not regulated. I have read reports, by the redering plants themselves. That chicken by product (or what ever kind) is not 100% chicken. Know what else is in there? Euth'd pets from large city shelters, meat that has gone off in the grocery store-still in its packaging!. So your pet gets all the goodness of the plastic and styrofoam, yummm. This is how pet foods test postive for pentobarbitol. It is not denatured in the redering process, and ends up in the pet food.

I feed raw. I have no issues with feeding my dog 'icky parts' I do have an issue with my dogs being fed diseased meat, creosote coated meat, and who knows what drugs.

Yea sure, diseased meat and creosote, blah blah blah. My dog has been on the same diet for 5 years and never once had a problem where I had to see a vet other than a state required shot. No expenses other than the food, that goes for supplements, meds, and I don't need toothbrushes either. And she doesn't stink either, no need for regular bathing. I'll put my dogs blood work up against anyones, including raw feeders, that is how confident I am when it comes to my dogs health.

 

[Dekka]

umm I think you missed my point.... completely missed it.

Abady says they don't use 4D meats etc

so of course your dog doesn't get those...

 

[Claybuster]

umm I think you missed my point.... completely missed it.

so of course your dog doesn't get those...

I think you implied my dog is probably eating euthanized pets, Styrofoam and plastic because of chicken by-product meal? I disagree and I think although there are different grades of chicken by-product meal, Abady is purchasing the best grade available. I have no concerns about my dogs health and safety when it comes to ingredients....three times more protein than standard feeds because of CBPM, and I have no concerns in regards to any ingredients in my dogs diet, including Pork Fat Lard. It is the best fat available money can buy for dogs (land-based animals) and I welcome it in their diet.

 

[Renee750il]

Dekka, at some point you just realize you're pissing up a rope

 

[Saje]

I think you implied my dog is probably eating euthanized pets, Styrofoam and plastic because of chicken by-product meal? I disagree and I think although there are different grades of chicken by-product meal, Abady is purchasing the best grade available. I have no concerns about my dogs health and safety when it comes to ingredients....three times more protein than standard feeds because of CBPM, and I have no concerns in regards to any ingredients in my dogs diet, including Pork Fat Lard. It is the best fat available money can buy for dogs (land-based animals) and I welcome it in their diet.

You should re-read what she said. You're missing her point entirely. You just basically agreed with her.

 

[Claybuster]

You should re-read what she said. You're missing her point entirely. You just basically agreed with her.

Re-reading:

I have read reports, by the redering plants themselves. That chicken by product (or what ever kind) is not 100% chicken. Know what else is in there? Euth'd pets from large city shelters, meat that has gone off in the grocery store-still in its packaging!. So your pet gets all the goodness of the plastic and styrofoam, yummm.

Ok, thanks for clearing that one up. I now fully understand. This is everyones CBPM but Abady. Very good, so sorry I misunderstand that, my apologies.

Dekka mentioned Abady doesn't use 4D meats. That is correct. Not the same ingredient in regards to CBPM though now is it?

Charlie

 

[Zoom]

...never mind. Logic is useless here.

 

[Dekka]

no Zoom its good now. The thing is what abady calls by products are not the same things Purina calls by products.

 

[Claybuster]

...never mind. Logic is useless here.

I think I have a good understanding of your logic Zoom. It would go something like this: By-products are yucky, nasty, and disgusting. I would never consider eating that stuff myself therefore my dog shouldn't have any either. Irregardless of the fact it is equally nutritious to that of meat muscle and part of the wild dogs diet for millions and millions of years, none of that matters, it's just plain old yucky stuff. My dog should eat the foods that I would eat, so pass the peas and carrots, bring on the cranberries and apples and all that carnivore stuff is strictly a bunch of nonsense. It sounds all so very logical. Everybody should think like Zoom when it comes to animal nutrition otherwise they are clueless.

I think that is a pretty good assessment of your logic.

My logic would tell me dogs are carnivores and should be fed accordingly, a diet very strong in animal source protein, very low carb and lowest fiber content possible.

Sorry, you or nobody else could ever convince me CBPM is a terrible ingredient in dog food. I would assert any dog food that does not contain by-products meals is inadequate to say the least. Meat muscle as a first ingredient is nothing more that deception. It is 75% moisture and that moisture is legally allowed to be constituted as a solid. It therefore does not contain enough protein content to suffice and carbs will then no doubt dictate the ration....no thanks. Diets that are carb heavy lead to shorter life spans, overweight dogs, and a lot of wasted money in Vet bills.

 

[Zoom]

Nope, miles off. Way to give it that college try though.

 

[Claybuster]

Nope, miles off. Way to give it that college try though.

Not even close? Not even in the same ballpark?

 

[Dekka]

Claybuster..In dog kibble making circles byproduct meal is usually defined as: the rendered down portions of the animal after the meat has been taken off. With a minimum amount of beaks, feathers, and fur. (no idea what a minimum amount would be)

Rendering gets rid of most (not all but most) of the nutrients in this stuff. Basically the good stuff (the fats, and all the fat soluble vitamins, the water, and all the water soluble vitamins) get removed. Now you have a nice dry 'meat based' meal to go into pet food. (plus all the chemicals from the 'denaturing process' drugs etc)

Most people on this forum have no problem with their dogs eating liver, hearts, lungs, bones, tripe, etc. Heck lots of us do feed these things. But these are no where in the ballpark of the byproduct meal in cheap dog foods. I let my dogs eat whole rabbits. They get to eat all the nasty things they want. I will not let my dogs eat dog foods that list byproduct meal in the ingredients (with the exception of foods like Abady)

 

[LilyoftheValley]

Why are yall fighting about dog food? Its just dog food? No matter how many posts you make about how wonderful the food you feed is, it is NOT going to make everyone change ther mind. I decided to change because I found out, with tons of research that the food I was feeding was bad. If these people are doing the best for ther dogs, who are we to judge? Just leave them alone. I made a post asking a question and it has turned into a complete monster. Cant we just stop? Maybe this thread should be locked, if that is possible, because all it is doing is causing fights. It is not even helping ANYONE anymore.

 

[Herschel]

Sorry, you or nobody else could ever convince me CBPM is a terrible ingredient in dog food. I would assert any dog food that does not contain by-products meals is inadequate to say the least. Meat muscle as a first ingredient is nothing more that deception. It is 75% moisture and that moisture is legally allowed to be constituted as a solid. It therefore does not contain enough protein content to suffice and carbs will then no doubt dictate the ration....no thanks. Diets that are carb heavy lead to shorter life spans, overweight dogs, and a lot of wasted money in Vet bills.

Simple question for Charlie:

Is chicken by-product meal better than chicken meal?

Don't dodge around the answer, don't talk about 75% moisture, just answer the question. Thanks.