Pics of our new mini Goldendoodle

bubbatd

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#41
Trav ... a website is great to advertise your business and brag of your accomplishments , but not a site to sell puppies . Most good breeders have a waiting list and pups are sold word of mouth or through Breed Clubs . Too many things can be falsified . It is just my personal opinion having been a past breeders for 30 years .No , I didn't have the internet back then , but I never had to advertise anywhere . Your pup is adorable !!! My daughter's sister -in -law is getting her Golden/Poodle mix in a few weeks .........so I do hope for more pictures !!! Please forgive us for any conflicts here ......we only care and hope that " lurkers " will learn from member's posts ! Truce ??
 

travisk

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#42
I'm sorry, I still don't understand the "unethical" part of the website. All I see here are baseless allegations from looking at a marketing website, and observations from some low resolution photos of other parents. Given your attitude about hybrids, I'm surprised that the "best of breed appearance" would even matter to you. The only real potential issue here is the white out on one of the studs health certificates. Why don't you ask her for an explanation? I can think of a couple.
 

Herschel

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#43
I'm sorry, I still don't understand the "unethical" part of the website. All I see here are baseless allegations from looking at a marketing website, and observations from some low resolution photos of other parents. Given your attitude about hybrids, I'm surprised that the "best of breed appearance" would even matter to you. The only real potential issue here is the white out on one of the studs health certificates. Why don't you ask her for an explanation? I can think of a couple.
Given my attitude about hybrids? What does that mean?

Herschel is a Schnauzer x Poodle mix. You would call him a Schnoodle, I would call him A Schnauzer mix, terrier mix, mutt, etc.

I'm not such a big fan of people that show just for appearance. However, there are a lot of show people that focus on obedience (and it is evident in the conformation ring) or agility (which shows in the structure of the dogs).

Want to see someone that has proven the talent of her dogs?

Contact Point Border Collies
http://www.bordercollies.tv

How has your breeder proven her dogs?
 
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#44
I'm sorry, I still don't understand the "unethical" part of the website.
I didn't visit the web site where you obtained your puppy, so I can't say anything about the breeder. But just understand that the fact that your pup is a goldendoodle automatically places the breeder into the "bad" column in the minds of many here, regardless of the health of the parents or how the pups were raised. Unless a pup is the product of a champion bloodline or a shelter, many will take you to task.

Your pup is adorable, and will likely be a happy and healthy pup. Enjoy.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

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#45
Thank you otch1. I have copies of both hip and eye checks for both parents, so apparently not all of these designer breeders are as negligent as some would assume.
I must say I am impressed....................what is their website? An ethical mixed breed breeder is very hard to find!!! Anyways, your pup is ADORABLE and it is not her fault she was born into the designer hype. I'm glad you found her!! Good luck!!
 

travisk

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#46
Thank you, StunnedMonkey. I understand that now. I'm still waiting for some specific evidence to back up the "puppy mill" accusations that have been posted. We'll see. Lots of kneejerking on this site.
 

~Tucker&Me~

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#47
Travisk,

The reason I don't like your breeder is because she isn't working towards anything. There is no POINT in her breedings.

There are to many animals dying daily in shelters for people to do casual breeding. Great family dogs and therapy dogs are sitting, dying in shelters because people like her a) want money b) want the kids to experience 'a miracle' c) are just plain old ignorant d) want one JUST like the mother or father.

The fact of the matter is that the only reason a dog should be bred is because it is an OUTSTANDING specimen that can contribute it's good qualities to the breed.

A good breeder will have specific things in mind and take breeding VERY seriously. Breeding is not a business. It is a hobby. Breeders do not make money. If they are lucky they will regain what they spent.

Is your breeder willing to take your puppy back if something goes wrong? AGAIN, what was wrong with a poodle and/or a golden?

~Tucker
 

travisk

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#48
Wow, Tucker. I'll summarize your argument with this "you can't breed unless it furthers the race". Does this theory apply to humans as well? I'm guessing you don't get invited to many baby showers.
 

Doberluv

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#49
Your puppy is adorable and I hope everything turns out great. It very well might. My Chihuahuas came from a back yard breeder and one hasn't had anything go wrong and one has patella luxation and has had one surgery. But that one doesn't even look like a Chihuahua. LOL. Like Herschel and others very aptly wrote, there is no reason to feel badly. Lots of us have gotten dogs from byb and the like. We live and learn.

The thing is, if you read my entire chapter posted in this forum as a sticky, you ought to see the reasons why people are saying what they're saying. If you walk through a couple of shelters some day, you ought to be able to see what people are meaning.

There is only one good reason to breed dogs. And that is to maintain homogeny within the breeds that we have...to maintain and better the pure breeds we have. (something like over 400 purebreds to choose from, some AKC, some from other clubs) There is criteria which dictates if a dog is considered a purebred.

There are more than enough shelters with dogs that need homes desperately. There are more than enough woops litters where people didn't purposely breed their dogs. Mixing two different breeds together is something that reputable breeders do NOT do. That does not better an existing breed and it does NOT produce homegeny. There is a lot to genetics and where that applies to the science of breeding dogs which your "breeder" did not do. There is something called "fixing a type." It has to do with phenotype and genotype. It has to do with making the offspring come out the same every generation. Most of these people breeding two different breeds of dogs are NOT producing homogenous typing. They don't know the first thing about it. They're doing this to create a niche in the market, a gimmick. You're essentially paying more than twice as much for a mutt as I paid for a well bred Doberman that comes from a very well respected breeder.

Your backyard breeder may (or may not have...did you check with the OFA people?) done the health tests and x-rays. Great. That may be better than most. But that does not make her ethical. If there were not an over population problem with dogs, I'd say, what the heck....produce some mix breeds. There are many great mixed breeds. But mixed breeds and purebred rescue dogs are being euthanized by the millions.....continually. There is so much suffering going on for these dogs with no families where they languish in shelters far too long before they're finally put to death. And you can't tell me that you can't find some little mix breed dog with Poodle in it or with Lab in it. Or whatever. Out of millions and millions of unwanted dogs, there is not one or a few that you could love?

Supporting these people who are mass producing puppies like a auto factory in Detroit is supporting the death and homelessness of millions of dogs. And supporting the production of dogs who often (hopefully not in your case) wind up with a lot of physical AND temperament problems because these people do NOT understand the science of breeding to a sufficient level. That's not why they do it. If they wanted to understand anything about it, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing. See the paradox?

This is not meant as an attack on you. Your puppy is adorable. My puppies were adorable. Every puppy is adorable. It doesn't make what these back yard "breeders," brokers and puppy millers are doing, moral or responsible. It's high time the word gets out.

There is one exception that I can think of or that I know of and that is a particular Labradoodle breeder in Australia who, by all reports has done this scientifically and created a fixed type....created a new breed. Once it's fixed and recognized by a club and there is a record, it can be accepted as a breed. But most of these designer "breeders" such as yours are not doing that.
 

Red_ACD_for_me

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#50
Okay, now that I just read through the whole thread and found the website I can see everyones points as I feel the way most of you do about the breeder and the breedings. But really guys, it is one thing to educate Travisk but another to be rude about what he feels was a great choice of breed for his family even if he paid $2,200 for a mixed breed :( ! Travisk, my ACD came from a reputable breeder who does all the health testing and shows her dogs but I only paid $800! I would personally never spend that kind of money on a pup purebred or mixed. Everyone has to learn and be educated and plenty of people on here admit to going to BYB's in the past but now speak against them because they learned there lesson or have ended up with an unhealthy dog. We live and we learn and hopefully you will take what is said to you with a grain of salt and try to understand where we are coming from :) We here at CHAZ love ALL dogs! So welcome and I hope you stick around! :D
 

~Jessie~

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#51
I agree with Doberluv. My Madison came from a BYB--- an awful one--- and we've been lucky so far. He hasn't had any health problem... but he has bow legs and an underbite, and we're worried that he will eventually have leg problems. He was an adorable puppy, and we didn't really know much about buying puppies.

Anyway, I feel that every breeder should have a purpose behind their breedings. Whether they are aiming for that perfect show dog, or are breeding working dogs, every breeder needs a purpose. Breeding for strictly pets is not acceptable in my opinion, since there are millions upon millions of great pets sitting behind bars in shelters. I can do a search on petfinder for "doodles," and would find hundreds (and probably thousands) of them in shelters in my state alone.

Your puppy is adorable, by the way! He will hopefully give you many years of love and happiness.
 

travisk

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#52
Thanks Doberluv. I'm sure that this forum has seen the mutt debate 1,000 times already. You aren't going to convince me that only purebred dogs should be bred. This is America, land of the free (economy), home of the laws of supply and demand. I already said that it satisfies me that my choice of dog will irk others.
 

Doberluv

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#53
Heck! I ended up with an unhealthy dog from a reputable breeder. (something that I'm afraid can't be easily bred against since it doesn't normall show up till later in the dogs life.) There are no guarantees. But there are certain things to watch for to help lessen the risk.

Mixing breeds can make them healthier....a broadened gene pool decreases genetic drift. However, most of these designer breeders don't really know what they're doing so that doesn't do any good anyhow.

I'm sure everything will turn out fine for you and your pup. He is really, really cute. But it is just a shame that one less pup from a shelter just lost out on a home. Sometimes they euthanzie whole litters of puppies. There is a place for purebred dogs and I would hate to see them disappear because there was no demand. But I also hate to see more mixed breed dogs being produced.

Anyhow.....I hope you have a better understanding. That doesn't mean that no one here wants you to enjoy your pup or that he is any less loveable than any other dog. And it most certainly has NOTHING to do with snobbery. Hopefully, you understand that now.
 

Doberluv

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#54
Missed your post there when I was typing my last one. I see you don't understand the gravity of the over population of mixed breed dogs and the suffering that goes on. Or you don't care to see it. There will always be those who will perpetuate the problem and there will be those who are educatable. There will always be mixed breed dogs bred. There will always be accidents. But to purposely breed them under the plight we have is immoral.
 

travisk

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#55
Again, if I could have found a young, healthy Goldendoodle that was raised well in a shelter, I would have bought it. Unfortunately (or fortunately), there are none that fit this description in the Los Angeles area shelters because mini Goldendoodles are very popular right now. Because of the demand, I had to pay a premium for the dog that we wanted. I do not have a problem with paying that premium. Supply, Demand.
 

katt223

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#56
Its been my understanding that mixed breeds have less health problems than pure breeds. Not sure where I got that from, it just seems like a common knowledge around here. Aren't puppy mills usually involved in the selling of pure breeds? What does BYB stand for? LOL this makes me laugh because its almost like racism but for dogs... don't judge a doggie by who their parents were!!
 

otch1

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#57
Travisk, it was inevitable that this thread would go this direction, after this pups site was posted. Any signs of alteration of documents should be a concern and is worth further investigation. Anyone brokering multiple mixed breed dogs out to homes they're retaining breeding rights to and one that doesn't allow you to view the breeding pair or home, should be a concern. Some people will state that this is because of increase in resent thefts, litters stolen, over the years. Most pro breeders know how to deal with this by verifying a potential buyers info before allowing them to view a puppy at thier facility/home. Also, it really is ideal when paying $2,200.00 for a dog, that it's because it's a purebred, (or outstanding in it's particular perfomance field) from champion stock, from a person that is well educated in thier particular breed and is doing this not just for profit but to promote the best of that breed. Otherwise, you certainly overpaid for what is the equivalent of a very cute shelter pup. I'm preaching, so I'm just going to add that I hope you varify the documents on the breeding pair, varify their registration information and their hip and eye documents. There's generally a very good reason to attempt to substitute one studs health certifications for anothers. I see other concerns there that would not be appropriate to put on the internet and I just want to see that you've done your homework. Yes, most top breeders have websites these days of their breeding stock, accomplishments and announcements of upcoming litters. But these pups are never sold directly over the internet. Since you paid top dollar for this pup, it's worth checking out. Better safe than sorry!
 

travisk

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#58
I don't want to sound cold. I have been to the shelters, I have seen the dogs on death row. I understand the plight of pet population control.

My problem is with the elitist logic of someone who will go to extraordinary lengths to breed an exceptional purebred dog for himself, but then tell me that any old pound mutt is good enough for my purposes.
 
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#59
His breeder does have a puropose/goal.

My goal financially is to make enough money breeding the doodles to justify me not taking a job outside the home
Way to feed the BYBs Travis. Will she take the puppy back if you for some unforseen reason have to give it up?
 

noludoru

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#60
Also, I take issue with the comment about breeders with websites. The year is 2007. If you run a business, ANY business without a website, it's your loss. A website establishes a bit of legitimacy, and gives me a starting point to investigate your business.

My doctor, my mechanic, my grocer, my dentist - they all have web sites. Why would a dog breeder be any different?
Because breeding dogs is not a business. Breeding dogs should be done with love, knowledge, and passion. Not for money. Many breeders here stay up late at night studying pedigrees, evaluating the best stud for their bitch, trying to match her up with a truly spectacular respresentative of the breed with little or no health problems and a stable temperament. Then they look at the same things with both dogs' ancestors, god knows how many generations back. Good breeders generally make only a tiny profit, if any. If you add all of the costs for titling, extensive health testing, shipping to be bred, AI, etc, they're always in debt. It's a labor of love, not of greed.

Having a website certainly does not establish legitimacy. Honestly.. I just don't know where to begin on that one. Since I've gotta say something, I'll leave it at this: I, a minor, can legally buy a website for myself. I can put whatever I want on it. If I steal some pictures and make a cool layout and link to paypal, I can sell puppies, too. :) From me, though, instead of a puppy, you're probably going to get a little note saying "You've been HAD! Don't trust the internet!"

Thanks Doberluv. I'm sure that this forum has seen the mutt debate 1,000 times already. You aren't going to convince me that only purebred dogs should be bred. This is America, land of the free (economy), home of the laws of supply and demand. I already said that it satisfies me that my choice of dog will irk others.
When dogs are viewed as a product on our forum,

I agree with Renee and shout

TROLL!
 

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