Neutered 8 month old marking his territory often

[McGregor]

Hi there,

Our 8 month old daschund is 100% housebroken, knows the basic commands, etc. However, lately he's been marking his territory in the house a lot. We take him out to do his business very often, about every hour. He can hold it in no problem overnight, or when we're at work. My girlfriend comes home from work at lunch and takes him out as well.

He's been peeping in lines around the living room about a few times a week. We give him a stern "no" and give him a time out. This isn't working. He'll know he's done something bad, but he keeps doing it over and over again.
My girlfriend brought him to her workplace today, it's a community center..She and a co-worker we're cleaning out a cupboard, they turned around and saw him peeing. I know this is normal, dogs mark their territory in new places to make it feel (smell) like home. She gave him a stern "no" and cleaned it up she made him lay down in a corner and stay there. He did it a second time. again, same consequence. The third time he jumped on a futon and peed all over it. He had been in the community center for all of 30 minutes when this happened. He was taken for a pee right before entering the building. It's clearly not a case of him not being able to hold it in.

Any tips to help us making him stop or do it less often? He is neutered, I don't know if that's supposed to make him less likely to mark his territory like that.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!:hail:

 

[PoodleMommy]

When was he neutered? Sometimes it can be a matter of having been neutered too late.

I dont really have any training tips, although I know somebody will have some soon.

In the mean time I would look into getting a belly band... although it wont solve the behavior it will protect your things from starting to smell like pee!

 

[Maxy24]

What have you been using to clean the urine? I think you may want to keep him always on leash so you can quickly remove him as soon as he looks like he's gonna pee and can bring him outside. Has anything changed to cause this? New furniture, new girlfriend? anything that may have caused him to be stressed or insecure about his home?

 

[McGregor]

Thanks for the replies guys. My gf and I got him together, but we did get a new roommate a few months ago. However, he totally listens to her, she's taken care of him (walks, fed him, play etc) while we were out many times.
And he doesn't mark her room or her belongings. Just the living room where we all spend most of our time.

We use febreeze to get rid of the odors, and get paper towel to absorb the pee itself.

He's always been a scardy cat type dog. He got a big fright from a motocycle ripping down our back alley when we first got him, and he also got attacked by a massive german sheppard, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it... He whines and cries a lot, but I dont know why since we never gave in to his crying that way he didn't think he could use it to get his way. He does yelp for no reason, especially when you pin him down when he's done something wrong. You'll be playing with him and out of nowhere he yelps. I think he knows we'll get scared we're hurting him and let go when he yelps (it's hard to know the difference between him faking and him actually in pain!)

I think maybe we could get stuff at the petstore thats actually made for getting rid of pee. Maybe that will help. But it's not like he as a designated spot to mark his territory, it's just anywhere in the living room. It's hard to stop him in the act or even catch him before he does it because he never lifts his leg up to pee. Ever. He basically runs/walks in a line and pees at the same time. We often notice minutes after he's done it. Usually he gets quiet and we look over and notice he's marked the carpet...

Hopefully this extra information helps!
Thanks again guys, this is my first dog (I'm 21) and I've got lots to learn.

 

[TheGoldenRetriever]

Hi McGregor! Congrats on your first dog!!

You definitely need the enzyme cleaner to treat the dog's indoor pee spots ... both the old ones and any recent ones. Febreeze isn't enough ... using that may make it so you can't smell any odor but it still leaves more than enough for the dog to smell it. When they can still smell it, it serves as a "signpost" leading them back to the same spots to pee there again.

How old is he now, and at what age was he neutered? Is this marking a new problem, or did it begin before he was neutered? Some of the stuff you wrote in your second post ... about his whining, "scaredy cat" temperament, never lifting his leg, and his noise aversion might mean his marking behavior is actually submissive urination ... and not marking at all. One or more of the behaviors you described wouldn't suggest that ... but all of them together in the same dog could. Males who are clearly marking usually do lift their legs and do a quick "squirt" rather than peeing all over.

If it is submissive urination, then pining him down on his back when he's "done something wrong" will make it worse. Sensitive dogs need confidence building. Using "alpha rolls" instead only makes their nervousness and over-sensitivity worse, and can lead to (or contribute to) submissive urination problems.

 

[Maxy24]

Has he been to the vet to make sure he does not have any medical problems? I suppose some dos mark like that but most males and even some females when marking will lift their leg, but he is young.
You *need* to use some sort of cleaner that says is is enzymatic or contains enzymes. This actually destroys the proteins in the urine. Dogs can smell urine that is long gone to your eyes and nose. In a dog's world if it smells like a toilet it is a toilet.

He does yelp for no reason, especially when you pin him down when he's done something wrong.

I would suggest you stop this. For one I and most people here are against such aggression towards your pet. Some dogs will bite when you attack them and some, like your dog, may become so afraid that they scream out of pure fear. So his reason for yelping is being afraid of your attack on him. If you need help properly punishing or redirecting behaviors we would be happy to help you do it without hurting or scaring the dog. I know a lot of people these days are promoting this whole "dominate you dog" theory but that is a really old fashioned treatment of dogs, people have learned a lot since these methods were popular and that is why so many have stopped using them. I know I can't make you change your methods but it would be really great for your dog's mental health and your relationship with him if you would be more hands off with punishments and rely more on replacing bad behavior with good behavior ("instead of doing this, do that, it's better to do that) instead of just saying "don't do this, don't do that". It's far easier to tell a dog the things you want him to do than go through the millions of things you don't want him to do.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Welcome to Chaz. : )

You DEFINITELY need to buy a BIG bottle of Nature's Miracle, or a similar product that is made to neutralize pet odors. I would also recommend getting your carpets thoroughly shampooed, just so that you start fresh and you don't miss a bunch of pee spots. I also agree with Maxy, that you honestly don't need to ever pin him down; give him a stern "Noooo!" if you catch him in the act, and immediately take him outside. For a very quick correction, if it works, you could also keep a spray bottle in hand and spray him the instant he raises his leg, just to make him stop suddenly, then take him outside.

How much exercise does your pup get? How many walks does he get every day? How much time do you spend training him? It's important that he gets lots of time each day to sniff around, relieve himself, and check things out. I would also recommend NILIF - if you want him to respect you, pinning him isn't the way to go... make him "work" (sit or down) for anything he gets; food, treats, leash, petting, toys, entering or exiting the house. Keep him stimulated, work on his obedience through out the day, walk him and exercise him frequently, give him treat-dispensing toys, chewies and Kongs stuffed with food to occupy him when he's unsupervised, and don't give him too much freedom! At 8 months old, he is definitely going through a rebellious phase, and he's still a puppy that cannot be trusted alone.

 

[Doberluv]

He does yelp for no reason, especially when you pin him down when he's done something wrong.

:yikes: That's a reason. He feels like he's being attacked. You're probably causing this problem by making him feel insecure. I hope you do some research on dog behavior and training soon, even just some basics. You can browse the forum, look at stickies, google Clicker solutions for some training advice.

He isn't 100% housebroken if he's peeing inside. Go back to square one the way it is when you have a new puppy. Supervise, take outside more frequently, reinforce with a high value treat outside and prevent opportunities for him to go inside. Don't scold him if he does pee inside. It's your fault if you don't supervise him properly. Yes, get him checked by the vet to make sure it's not a bladder infection.

Btw...he doesn't know he's done "wrong." That's for humans, not dogs.

 

[McGregor]

Well, I called the vet today, because we noticed he tinkles a bit, and it has nothing to do with him not being housebroken, and has nothing to do with him peeing out submission. The vet thinks he has a bladder infection. We're bringing him in tomorrow morning.

As for us being horrible people that are "attacking" our dog, I think that's a stretch. We have decided to focus on positive reinforcement, and hopefully that will help him with his anxiety.

Thanks for all the comments, hopefully we can deal with this problem at the vet tomorrow.

 

[Maxy24]

I'm glad he is going to the vet, hopefully they can help him! And for the record i did not say nor do I think you are a horrible person, I think the method you chose to use is a horrible method I'm glad you want to focus on positive methods, if you need any help training positively/how to punish without force and fear etc. we can all help you out, in fact many people here are positive trainers who used to use force and have been "converted".

 

[Doberluv]

I didn't say you're altogether a horrible person. But giving a stern "no" and pinning him down which frightens dogs...punishing this young dog for something that he can't help is mistreatment. It's wrong. And very importantly, stern punishment and in some cases any punishment can cause a ripple effect, where other behaviors develop which are sometimes worse than the behavior you're trying to get rid of. There are some uncanny side effects to punishment in dogs.

All your perceptions about how dogs view their actions, like "he knows he did wrong" is way out of line in accordance with what is known about dogs' cognitive abilities. And this kind of gross misinterreptation of how dogs are ends up causing unfair treatment to these animals. And that just breaks my heart.

I too, am glad that you're interested in learning how to interact with and train your pup in a way which is compatible with how science shows us how dogs think and learn, how they understand things. Motivation and reward based methods are truly effective and you don't need punishment to train a dog. I've been training dogs for longer than I care to mention. I'm older than I care to mention. LOL. I've had dogs in my life for 1/2 century and have used more compulsive methods in the past. After I adapted these more intelligent, sophisticated ways of handling dogs, I can't begin to tell you the positive difference it has made in my dogs and my relationship with them. The bond and from that, the compliance I get is light years ahead of what it was back then.

I do speak my mind when I see things which make me sad...dogs being punished when they're animals, not humans with our culture or value system. I try not to be rude, but I can't help but speak my mind. Anyhow, I do hope your little puppy feels better soon after his anti biotics and that anytime he has a change in behavior or a behavior which you are not happy about that you'll come and ask rather than resort to blaming the dog. Some of the worst behavior problems are dealt with and turned around regularly and the most effective and long lasting results come from the correct use of motivation and reward methods. And wouldn't it be better to prevent those behavior problems in the first place? Proper handling will prevent most behavior problems.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Did he end up having a bladder infection? Any updates?

NO ONE here would call you a horrible person... really. I guarantee that everyone here has made mistakes with their dogs, and what is important is that you learn and grow. I'm glad you are focusing on positive reinforcement techniques. The training board has a wealth of information.

 

[DanL]

What age a dog is neutered, or if he's neutered at all, doesn't have a lot to do with marking IMO. Bruzer was neutered at 5 months old- when he started to mark. 6 years later, he still marks anything and everything outside. His entire time outdoors is spent marking and scratching up dirt afterwards. He's been caught marking indoors as well, though it's not a constant thing. Gunnar on the other hand is intact, and has never marked a thing in the house. He has certain places he marks outside, but his marking activity is not 1/10th of what Bruzer does. I think some dogs just mark more than others. Maybe its' a dominant/submissive thing. Bruzer is submissive, Gunnar is dominant, so maybe Bruzer feels the need to mark more to raise his status in the pack? Bruzer has always been low man, even before we had Gunnar, our female Midnite was alpha, and Bruzer marked just as much then as he does now.

 

[joce]

I don't really fall for the neutering to late being the reason. Byron is still not neutered and in his nine years has marked the couch once-and thats because a rabbit had him worked up sitting on the back porch-it was a fluke thing,I didn't even have the heart to yell at him

Outside may be another story but my female husky is much worse at marking than my male dobe. She will occasionally try to mark new peoples shoes inside or out:yikes:

Peeing that much I would guess medical issue. Hope it gets figured out.