Myspace suicide, there's an indictment!

[Lilavati]

Lilavati I see what you are saying - and I see your points. Still, since I am not familiar with the law, my gut feeling as a layman is that what she did was not right and should be punishable as a crime. I don't think the family should have to resort to filing a civil suit. Yes, people violate the TOS of websites all the time, and 99.99999% of the time there are no dire consequences. My understanding of myspace is that the try to keep under 18s and over 18s from communicatiing with each other, so if an adult poses as a minor, that is a violation of the TOS. At that point alone I have to ask why ANY adult would do that. I suppose if they want to relive junior high school no harm is going to be done. But as an adult (and I've been one legally for quite a while) my personal opinion is that any adult who poses as a kid towards kids is probably up to no good. I also think it makes a difference if you tell an adult "the world would be better off without you" (or similar) or if you say it to a kid-especailly one you've been stringing along with a bogus online romance. Cripes what is the most common cause of murder? Isn't it crimes of passion? I would think we would be aware as a society that people can get very unglued over broken relationships, and kids can come unglued over what happens on the internet. I guess I'm old-fashioned, I think as adults we need to be careful with kids, not the other way around.

BTW HoundedbyHounds, did you see that a New York cabbie got a $1000 fine for cussing out another cab driver? They have some cuss jar there!

That's actually what "hard cases make bad law" pretty much means. The behavior was appalling. The consequences were worse. An adult was emotionally preying on a child. Its disguisting, and most people have the same reaction . . . she should be punished. Severely. That's the hard case part.

The bad law part is how to deal with it. Because we, and presumably the prosecutor, want this woman punished, he clearly paged through his law books (or ran a search on Lexis) to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING he could charge her with. Unfortunately, what he wants to do is not only legally dubious in the first place . . . it sets a precedent that violating a TOS (which is a civil contract) can be punished as a felony. That's actually a really scary idea, for many reasons. But that a civil contract (and a contract of adhesion at that) can be backed by the force of criminal law is . . . well, its unheard of.

Now, I have no idea why harassment/stalking laws aren't being used. And a new law could be written, prohibiting say, an adult from knowingly contacting a minor on the internet with the intent to inflict emotional distress (I can see problems with this, but we'll let it stand for now).

However, what the girl's family can do is sue the intentional torts of intentional infliction of emotional distress and wrongful death. And they will probably win. And that will be very expensive.

 

[Beanie]

Now, I have no idea why harassment/stalking laws aren't being used.

I totally don't understand either. I think there's a solid case for that! Why try to make it something about TOS abuse?? very very unusual.

 

[Nechochwen]

I agree that this belongs in civil court. What the media fails to point out is that suicide is a choice. The little girl made a decision to end her life and bears some degree of responsibility for that. Who here has not had nasty things said to them or even worse, experienced physical abuse, yet we did not decide to end our own lives? We all have to be accountable for ourselves and we must teach our children that for every decision there is a reprecussion, either positive or negative.

I had similar problems with my daughter and chat rooms when she was a teenager. This was years ago when the Internet was new. I had the frank discussion with her that the people that she was talking to were more than likely not who they claimed to be...my example was that the cute teenaged guy was probably someone her Dad's age sitting in basement in his underwear with greasy hair and a sweaty forehead...not a pretty picture. It took a while and a lot of close monitoring, but I eventually got the point across.

We have technology that can track every key stroke...there is no reason for a parent to be in the dark these days. My daughter is now 23 years old, but I still have a myspace account and a facebook account. Why would a middle aged woman need one? To keep an eye on my daughter of course...I always tried to stay one step ahead of her. I am not blaming the Mom of the dead girl, but I am saying that she could have gone right to the ISP and tracked the IP address of the person sending the nasty messages and taken action. We have to be in tune with our kids...

Does that make the other family innocent? No, what they did was horrible and as a parent, had I found that my daughter was sending such messages, I would have taken disciplinary action to see it was stopped rather than join in, but I still do not think it should be a criminal offense. Where will it end? If I type something here that offends you, am I liable? What if you disagree with this post and it upsets you so much that you step out in front of a moving truck, have I committed a crime? Did I push you? No. We all have choices and if you don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You have a choice to disconnect. You have a choice to seek help.

I have to believe that there were other issues going on with that child that made her decide to end her own life. Perhaps it was a combination of things, but how can anyone determine without a shadow of doubt that this harrassment was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I think this is opening Pandora's Box and once there is a precedent, where will it end? What happened to the old sticks and stones addage...we all need to thicken our skin and learn to walk away. We need to be personally accountable for our own emotions.

Before you fill my inbox, I don't care how many of you e-mail me that I should go jump off a bridge, I'm not going to be moved to do it...

Parents, teach your kids some perspective...no online "relationship" should ever be more significant to you than those that you have with real, tangible people...It's nice to have online buddies, and I have some dear ones that I have even met, but up until our meeting, they were not really real to me...The idea that anyone would end their own life over myspace is simply frightening...

stepping off soapbox now...

Better? I need glasses, too...

I love you.

Also, the sentence in bold is the reason I have the words under my name that I do.

 

[Dizzy]

I agree that this belongs in civil court. What the media fails to point out is that suicide is a choice. The little girl made a decision to end her life and bears some degree of responsibility for that. Who here has not had nasty things said to them or even worse, experienced physical abuse, yet we did not decide to end our own lives? We all have to be accountable for ourselves and we must teach our children that for every decision there is a reprecussion, either positive or negative.

I had similar problems with my daughter and chat rooms when she was a teenager. This was years ago when the Internet was new. I had the frank discussion with her that the people that she was talking to were more than likely not who they claimed to be...my example was that the cute teenaged guy was probably someone her Dad's age sitting in basement in his underwear with greasy hair and a sweaty forehead...not a pretty picture. It took a while and a lot of close monitoring, but I eventually got the point across.

We have technology that can track every key stroke...there is no reason for a parent to be in the dark these days. My daughter is now 23 years old, but I still have a myspace account and a facebook account. Why would a middle aged woman need one? To keep an eye on my daughter of course...I always tried to stay one step ahead of her. I am not blaming the Mom of the dead girl, but I am saying that she could have gone right to the ISP and tracked the IP address of the person sending the nasty messages and taken action. We have to be in tune with our kids...

Does that make the other family innocent? No, what they did was horrible and as a parent, had I found that my daughter was sending such messages, I would have taken disciplinary action to see it was stopped rather than join in, but I still do not think it should be a criminal offense. Where will it end? If I type something here that offends you, am I liable? What if you disagree with this post and it upsets you so much that you step out in front of a moving truck, have I committed a crime? Did I push you? No. We all have choices and if you don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You have a choice to disconnect. You have a choice to seek help.

I have to believe that there were other issues going on with that child that made her decide to end her own life. Perhaps it was a combination of things, but how can anyone determine without a shadow of doubt that this harrassment was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I think this is opening Pandora's Box and once there is a precedent, where will it end? What happened to the old sticks and stones addage...we all need to thicken our skin and learn to walk away. We need to be personally accountable for our own emotions.

Before you fill my inbox, I don't care how many of you e-mail me that I should go jump off a bridge, I'm not going to be moved to do it...

Parents, teach your kids some perspective...no online "relationship" should ever be more significant to you than those that you have with real, tangible people...It's nice to have online buddies, and I have some dear ones that I have even met, but up until our meeting, they were not really real to me...The idea that anyone would end their own life over myspace is simply frightening...

stepping off soapbox now...

Better? I need glasses, too...

Yes, much better thanks

I think that was pretty much what I was trying to say too!

 

[jess2416]

I agree that this belongs in civil court. What the media fails to point out is that suicide is a choice. The little girl made a decision to end her life and bears some degree of responsibility for that. Who here has not had nasty things said to them or even worse, experienced physical abuse, yet we did not decide to end our own lives? We all have to be accountable for ourselves and we must teach our children that for every decision there is a reprecussion, either positive or negative.

I had similar problems with my daughter and chat rooms when she was a teenager. This was years ago when the Internet was new. I had the frank discussion with her that the people that she was talking to were more than likely not who they claimed to be...my example was that the cute teenaged guy was probably someone her Dad's age sitting in basement in his underwear with greasy hair and a sweaty forehead...not a pretty picture. It took a while and a lot of close monitoring, but I eventually got the point across.

We have technology that can track every key stroke...there is no reason for a parent to be in the dark these days. My daughter is now 23 years old, but I still have a myspace account and a facebook account. Why would a middle aged woman need one? To keep an eye on my daughter of course...I always tried to stay one step ahead of her. I am not blaming the Mom of the dead girl, but I am saying that she could have gone right to the ISP and tracked the IP address of the person sending the nasty messages and taken action. We have to be in tune with our kids...

Does that make the other family innocent? No, what they did was horrible and as a parent, had I found that my daughter was sending such messages, I would have taken disciplinary action to see it was stopped rather than join in, but I still do not think it should be a criminal offense. Where will it end? If I type something here that offends you, am I liable? What if you disagree with this post and it upsets you so much that you step out in front of a moving truck, have I committed a crime? Did I push you? No. We all have choices and if you don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You have a choice to disconnect. You have a choice to seek help.

I have to believe that there were other issues going on with that child that made her decide to end her own life. Perhaps it was a combination of things, but how can anyone determine without a shadow of doubt that this harrassment was the straw that broke the camel's back?

I think this is opening Pandora's Box and once there is a precedent, where will it end? What happened to the old sticks and stones addage...we all need to thicken our skin and learn to walk away. We need to be personally accountable for our own emotions.

Before you fill my inbox, I don't care how many of you e-mail me that I should go jump off a bridge, I'm not going to be moved to do it...

Parents, teach your kids some perspective...no online "relationship" should ever be more significant to you than those that you have with real, tangible people...It's nice to have online buddies, and I have some dear ones that I have even met, but up until our meeting, they were not really real to me...The idea that anyone would end their own life over myspace is simply frightening...

stepping off soapbox now...

Better? I need glasses, too...

I couldnt agree more...

 

[release the hounds]

I want to add my name to the list SeniorPetLover. That was a great post.

 

[Lilavati]

Senior Pet Lover, I'm glad you won't be moved to jump off a bridge . . . the world needs more wisdom.