Moving beyond the dominance myth

Doberluv

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#1
With all the threads I see where there is so much discussion, in fact, so much discussion that its sometimes to the point of moving away from the original posters' questions and really getting quite off topic, I thought it might be a good thing to create a thread just for this discussion.

A lot of dog owners are new to dogs, young, inexperienced and they often have grown up with the dominance model for dog training. ie: "show them who's boss," "be the alpha of your pack." Before any useful discussion on this, this link should be read first. This is an important part of my thread.

Some things to take into account are where these older ideas came from, what science there is to back them up vs. what there is now known and by whom, which is bringing about newer, less compulsive training methods such as operant or instrumental based training methods.

So, if you'd be interested in this discussion, please take a few minutes and read thoroughly the link. Also, this is meant to be a lively interchange of ideas and opinions. Everyone has a right to their opinions about the concepts. Under no circumstances will personal attacks on members here be tolerated. (just a reminder....it comes to mind due to some recent posts which put up some red flags)

http://www.4pawsu.com/MOVING BEYOND THE DOMINANCE MYTH.pdf#search="dominance in dogs myths"
 

Herschel

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#2
I watched "The Dog Whisperer" a few days ago for the first time. I couldn't believe his emphasis on "making dogs submissive". I didn't think that was still accepted by anyone as a normal way to train--why do people think he is so amazing?:mad:
 

Doberluv

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#4
I tried again....its the same exact thing. Hmmmm. Mine works. Maybe theres some computer reason. (?) Bummer. Try doing a Google search yourself and type in the title of the thread here.
 

jess2416

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mine works too :)

very interesting..:)

I read somewhere and I wish I could remember the exact context it was written but anyways, the chapter was talking about pack mentality wolves vs. people/dogs and it was talking about about how the wolf pack leader stayed the leader by confidence and not by force...and how the same thing applied to the human leader..

If I can find it again, I will post it in context..I just thought it was interesting and it did make some sense..

I *think* it was in Animals in Translation
 
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mine works too :)

very interesting..:)

I read somewhere and I wish I could remember the exact context it was written but anyways, the chapter was talking about pack mentality wolves vs. people/dogs and it was talking about about how the wolf pack leader stayed the leader by confidence and not by force...and how the same thing applied to the human leader..

If I can find it again, I will post it in context..I just thought it was interesting and it did make some sense..

I *think* it was in Animals in Translation
I know what you're talking about Jess. It's a bit of newer science that blows the bottom out of the old wolf studies of the 1940's.
The old '40's studies are unfortunately to blame for a lot of the abusive tactics used against dogs for decades after.

Some people still use the old, dirty and incomplete studies to justify things like alpha rolling and scruff grabbing and generally physically controlling their dogs due to the false conclusions drawn regarding hierarchy.

I wish I could remember where I saw it last too ...I'll go look for it as well.
 

Doberluv

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#7
Some Thoughts on Letting go of the Dominance Paradigm in Training Dogs

“You’ve got to show your dogs who’s boss. To be a good dog trainer, the owner must be Alpha. The problem with your dog is that he’s too dominant.”

If you read dog-training books or hang around with dog people, you are bound to come across statements like these. Somehow, people have decided that being the “top wolf” to your dog is going to make him a better pet or solve training problems. If you could just put the dog “in his place” he would be obedient and listen to your “commands.”

I have found that using the dominance paradigm in training dogs is counter-productive.

Let me elaborate some of my thoughts:

1. Comparing assertive behavior of adult breeding wolves to dog training is ludicrous. “Alpha” wolves (now called “breeders” by most wolf biologists) do not train other members of the pack. Current wolf studies have also shown that they are not always the leading animals when wolves travel, nor do they always lead in hunting or eat first when a kill is made.

2. Even “wolf people” stay away from the wolf paradigm when dealing with human socialized wolves. Many years ago, when I became a wolf educator, most of us dealing with socialized wolves believed that we needed to act like wolves to interact with them. From the time the wolves were pups, we handled the “social climbing” animals with vigilance, aware that we must be “dominant” for them to remain “submissive.”

Unfortunately, this method of handling wolves backfired on many of those who used it. When humans attempted to interact with these socialized wolves in this way, the wolves were more apt to challenge and hurt the humans when they reached sexual maturity.

At Wolf Park, a wolf education and research facility in Battle Ground, Indiana, the staff has learned that careful non-confrontational behavioral shaping methods work best in dealing with the wolves. The staff does not attempt to act like wolves when interacting with them.

3. The dominance paradigm assumes that a socially repressed dog will be an “obedient” dog. Dogs learn by exploring their environment and repeating behaviors that are rewarding to them. Good trainers manage their dogs to prevent them from practicing unwanted behavior and to reward behavior that they want to foster. They do not attempt to suppress behavior through intimidation or force.

4. Dogs that are pushed around by their owners who are attempting to show them “who’s boss” are more apt to redirect aggression to other humans and dogs. If someone has been picking on you, you’re more apt to take out your frustration on someone else.

5. Often a dog’s body postures and behavior are labeled “dominant” when, in fact, the animal is really fearful or defensive. Sadly, if a fearful or defensive dog is “corrected” by a misinformed trainer who is concerned about the dominance issue, the result will most likely be a dog that becomes even more fearful and defensive.

6. Working with a dog using the dominance paradigm sets up the owner and the dog for a confrontational rather than cooperative relationship. Good trainers don’t let themselves get into “power struggles” with their dogs.

7.Diagnosing behavioral problems within the dominance paradigm leads to enacting policies with the dog that are useless and not apt to deal with the real training issues that need to be addressed.

I am surprised that the dominance paradigm continues to flourish despite all the information that disputes its use. Last year, when we began working with Kaddi, the African village dog my daughter gifted us, many of her less desirable behaviors could have been characterized as dominance related to those who choose to think in that mindset. Her gut reaction to any fearful situation was to charge, snarling with tail and hackles raised. She was an ardent resource guarder who seemed to go out of her way to try to stare down our other dogs. I don’t know how many misguided dog people told me she was a “dominant bitch” and I should be correcting her and lowering her social status. I chose to prove them wrong. I suspected that Kaddi was just fearful in many situations so I continued a careful socialization program. For many months, she was hand fed, kibble by kibble practicing eye contact and other operant behaviors. We intervened by luring her away from stare-downs with our dogs and rewarding her for choosing alternate behavior. She is doing wonderfully in all respects. She is very lucky that we chose to train rather than dominate her, and so are we.

Article submitted by: by Beth Duman
 

Doberluv

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#8
The Myth of Alpha

The following is from When Elephants Weep by Masson and McCarthy (words in brackets are mine):

In recent years the idea of the dominance hierarchy has become more controversial, with some scientists asking if such hierarchies are real or a product of human expectation ... Some ethologists now argue that while dominance relationships [Rex is more dominant than Spike] may be real, dominance ranks [Spike knows that Rex is alpha and he's beta] are not.

The authors go on to say that scientists have now found that "pecking orders" don't necessarily exist in all chicken groups (which is where the whole thing started in the first place), and that some social hierarchies, previously thought to be ruled by the alpha male are actually controlled by a middle-ranking female! Some alpha theorists are now saying that there isn’t just one alpha wolf in a pack, but there may be anywhere from three to five who are “alpha” under different circumstances. To me this is completely illogical.

I’ve found that there are three fatal flaws in the alpha theory—three ideas that, when analyzed properly, don't make any sense.

Flaw #1 - You Can't Pee on a Concept
Remember what Stanley Coren said about forcing a dog over on her back every day? (See The Myth of Alpha (Part 1). He said that this position "signifies submission to the authority of a dominant member of the pack." But dogs don't think symbolically. They don't use signifiers. To a dog, a thing is what it is and that's all that it is. It never stands for something else. Alpha is only a designation; a way scientists have of representing or signifying an animal's rank or status within the social hierarchy. But rank, status, role, and hierarchy are all concepts, symbols, or designations. They are not tangible, sniffable, audible, or visible, which means that they can't exist in a dog's mind. After all, you can't bite, sniff, chase, lick, or pee on a concept.

Some might say that when a dog chases a tennis ball it signifies (or represents) a squirrel or other prey animal. But is that really the case? If we look for the simplest explanation, we see that a dog's hunting instinct is hard-wired to respond to anything moving in a certain way. Think of a puppy on his first walk. Even if he's never seen a pigeon before, the moment he sees a leaf or a bit of paper caught in an updraft he starts to chase it. The leaf doesn't symbolize or represent a pigeon to the dog (especially if he's never seen one before). He chases it only because it's moving in a way that automatically stimulates an unconscious, genetic reflex. But (some might ask) couldn't the recognition of rank and status also be instinctive and genetic? Couldn't the dog's brain be hard-wired for that as well?

No, because there's a huge difference between an instinct and the ability to think symbolically. For one thing, instincts originate in the hypothalamus and symbolic thinking originates in the frontal lobes. A dog’s brain has a hypothalamus, but his frontal lobes (if they could even be called that) are small and undeveloped. In The Co-Evolution of Language and the Brain, Terrence Deacon, a leading neuroscientist and evolutionary anthropologist, writes, “Species that have not acquired the ability to communicate symbolically cannot have acquired the ability to think this way either.” It should be clear that dogs can't recognize symbols or designations. Without this inherent cerebral ability to think symbolically, how can a dog relate to things like rank and status? He can't. He simply doesn't have the type of brain nor the accompanying cognitive architecture to process them.

So we have to ask ourselves this: when one dog acts submissively towards another is he doing it because a) he recognizes the other dog's rank and status? Or because b) he recognizes that the other dog is stronger physically or emotionally? The answer is probably b. We could go even further and say that the dog doesn't even recognize, cognitively, the other dog's superior emotional and physical strength, he only senses it or feels it. This makes more sense, and yet we could go even further than that—and in so doing be much closer to the truth—and say the dog isn't even able to feel or sense the other dog's superiority. All he can really do is feel the changes in his own temperament when the two come into contact. Still, no matter how specifically we want to look at this, we have to realize, once and for all, that there can never be any recognition or awareness in a dog's mind of his own or of anyone else's rank or status in the pack.

Flaw #2 - There Are No Cocktail Bars in Nature
Alpha theorists seem to think that dominance is the defining characteristic of the pack instinct when it's really just a secondary aspect of the sex drive (the primary one being the actual, physical act of mating). It also may have an influence on two other survival behaviors-eating and sleeping—but let's look at the reproductive aspect first:

The main manifestation of the dominant/submissive polarity in animal behavior comes when two sexual rivals vie for the right to breed with an available partner. This rivalry can only take place between two males or between two females, but never between a male and a female. And never, ever, between a dog and a human. (This behavior occurs in all species, by the way, not just canines. Think of two rams butting heads, for example, or two guys in a bar fighting over a cocktail waitress.)
A second manifestation occurs when a dam steals pups from her less dominant counterpart to raise with her own litter. In some cases—such as when food is scarce—a dominant female may even kill a rival's newborn pups.

There are two other situations where dominance may rightly be said to occur. One is a rivalry over food. The other relates to the best place for sleeping. Still, these are both survival, not social behaviors, because food and sleep are necessary for survival.

Keep in mind however, that whenever dominant behavior does occur it has absolutely nothing to do with the pack instinct. Sex is not a social activity for animals—its only purpose is to insure the survival of the species; or more correctly, to insure the survival of the genetic code. Dogs and wolves—no matter how socially developed—are still just dogs and wolves. To them, sex is a completely asocial experience. There are no mixers, dating services, or cocktail bars in Nature.

Still, people often tell me, "My dog is alpha," or, "My dog is very dominant." This is simply not the case. The language needs to be more exact: the dog is simply "assertive", not dominant, and definitely not alpha. When you act "dominant" toward a dog, he can only experience what you're doing as aggression. This is a popular training technique (or used to be), but not a good one.

Flaw #3 - "Let's Get Together and Kill Us a Moose"
What really sets dogs and wolves apart from other social animals is not the pack hierarchy but how they hunt. The fact is, the pack instinct only exists to enable canines to hunt large prey by working together as a cooperative social unit.

According to Ray Coppinger, co-author of Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior, and Evolution, when wolves settle near a garbage dump, and are able to scavenge for a living, rather than having to hunt large prey, the pack's "social structure" becomes much less clearly defined. Other wild canids, such as coyotes and jackals, only form packs when the conditions in their environment make it necessary for them to hunt large prey in order to survive. When they don't need to hunt large prey, they don't form packs. It's also notable that lions are the only social cats in nature, and they hunt in a similar manner to the way wolves chase and ambush large prey. Meanwhile, the wild dogs of Africa, who are so distantly related to dogs, genetically speaking, that they're practically not a member of the same family, not only hunt large prey as a pack, they also hunt small prey this way as well. And they're the most social mammals on the planet.

The question becomes obvious: is there a direct correlation between sociability and the canine prey drive? The answer should be just as obvious—yes there is.

When you look at the alpha fallacy with these three flaws in mind, it makes no sense. No wonder some ethologists are starting to question it. Now, some alpha theorists are suggesting that there isn't just one alpha wolf, there may be as many as five of or six! How much sense does this make to you? However, if you begin to look at the pack from the point of view of a new scientific discipline called Emergence Theory, which began to develop in the late 1950s, you may begin to understand that the pack is not a top-down hierarchy, but a bottom-up heterarchy. Knowing this may totally change how you relate to and train your dog.

Article submitted by: © Lee Charles Kelley (Biography & Additional Information)
 

Delisay

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#9
Oh my... Some thoughts...

...rank, status, role, and hierarchy are all concepts, symbols, or designations. They are not tangible, sniffable, audible, or visible,
[True]
...which means that they can't exist in a dog's mind
[This does not naturally follow. I see no reason that dogs would not have at least a basic level of conceptual processing, given that this is a core and ancient function of brains in general.]

...Even if he's never seen a pigeon before, the moment he sees a leaf or a bit of paper caught in an updraft he starts to chase it.
[Ever watched children with leaves or pigeons??]
...He chases it only because it's moving in a way that automatically stimulates an unconscious, genetic reflex.
[I think this is a terrible under-estimation of canine intelligence.]

...instincts originate in the hypothalamus
[Oh sort of, if one wants to be simplistic. They exist in a network of wiring throughout the body too, and can even seem to manifest via a kind of morphogenic resonance.]

...In The Co-Evolution of Language and the Brain, Terrence Deacon, a leading neuroscientist and evolutionary anthropologist, writes, “Species that have not acquired the ability to communicate symbolically cannot have acquired the ability to think this way either.”
[Leading neuroscientist?!...my pinky toe... What kind of logic is that? Can a human toddler not think symbolically? Of course it can. Dolphins can. We know that even birds can think symbolically, though only because some of them can talk and have told us so! Deacon is underestimating animal intelligence just because most don't speak his language.]

...when one dog acts submissively towards another is he doing it because
a) he recognizes the other dog's rank and status? Or because
b) he recognizes that the other dog is stronger physically or emotionally?
[I'm experiencing a bit of "how much can this possibly matter?" on this one. Tiny, picky, semantic labelling differences: "Rank" and "status" mean "physically/emotionally stronger".]

...the dog doesn't even recognize, cognitively, the other dog's superior emotional and physical strength, he only senses it or feels it.
[And the difference between "recognising" and "sensing/feeling" is?! Are humans different on a day-to-day basis? Do we walk around thinking "My, he's emotionally and physiologially superior to me?" (no), or "I find him a bit intimidating"? (yes)]

...the dog isn't even able to feel or sense the other dog's superiority. All he can really do is feel the changes in his own temperament when the two come into contact.
[Is that so different to humans? Very subtle...very picky... Humans are very similar.]

...we have to realize, once and for all, that there can never be any recognition or awareness in a dog's mind of his own or of anyone else's rank or status in the pack.
[Doggy poop!! For the above reasons, and based on experience. The 'absolutist' nature of this statement makes it extremely unlikely to be true.]

...There are two other situations where dominance may rightly be said to occur. One is a rivalry over food. The other relates to the best place for sleeping. Still, these are both survival, not social behaviors, because food and sleep are necessary for survival.
[Note that 'social behaviour' is a key category of 'survival behaviour' in its own right.]

...whenever dominant behavior does occur it has absolutely nothing to do with the pack instinct.
[Too absolute to be true.]

Sex is not a social activity for animals—its only purpose is to insure the survival of the species;
[Known not to be true. Bonobos are the best example, and there are others. True, however, that dogs are not one of them!!]

...people often tell me, "My dog is alpha," or, "My dog is very dominant." This is simply not the case. The language needs to be more exact
[Does it?!]
: the dog is simply "assertive", not dominant, and definitely not alpha. When you act "dominant" toward a dog, he can only experience what you're doing as aggression.
[This is very similar to humans, so I'm not sure of the value of this. Most assertive or aggressive humans will not say "I'm very dominant" and are often unaware. They think they are assertive, but we experience it as aggression...which has the effect of dominating us...and creating a heirarchy. (Really, what difference does this semantic play make to the price of eggs?!)]

...the pack is not a top-down hierarchy, but a bottom-up heterarchy.
[Our daily experience tells us that this cannot be wholly true. The truth, as usual, probably lies somewhere inbetween these extremes.]

Hmm....interesting intellectual exercise but not sure how useful! The earlier points about wolves were very thought provoking though - some interesting angles on the whole issue.

Del.
 

otch1

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#10
Delisay... I have come to the conclusion that you are an attorney?? Excellent debates and well worth the read. Doberluv, I enjoy Dr. Corens work and refer my students to it often. Thought provoking points made in both posts.
 

Delisay

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Otch...ouch!! No, not an attorney. But I did a good impression of one for a while there...except for "Doggy poop, your Honour!!" ... I don't think that would work well in practice.

Because of this hopefully temporary but frightening resemblance to an attorney, I will now go off to do penance :hail: / enage in some character-improving self-flaggelation. (Apologies to attorneys... Just jibin'...I do know you're not all a bad lot!!)

Glad you enjoyed it!! ;)

Del.
 

Boemy

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#13
mine works too :)

very interesting..:)

I read somewhere and I wish I could remember the exact context it was written but anyways, the chapter was talking about pack mentality wolves vs. people/dogs and it was talking about about how the wolf pack leader stayed the leader by confidence and not by force...and how the same thing applied to the human leader..

If I can find it again, I will post it in context..I just thought it was interesting and it did make some sense..

I *think* it was in Animals in Translation
This is a myth I've come across before. "The ALPHA wolf is never aggressive towards lower pack members, only middle pack members are." Then how does the alpha male keep his position when the beta male challenges him? Wolves are socially ambitious and there's almost guaranteed to be another wolf who thinks he'd be better at the job!

Although an alpha of a wolf pack doesn't lead by force in the sense that he bites the other members to force them to hunt moose, an alpha WILL defend and reinforce his status with physical (and psychological) force. The social structure of a wolf pack is fluid and alphas are sometimes deposed or forced to a lower rank. In such cases, the alpha may be allowed to remain in the pack, be forced out of the pack, or, rarely, killed in the coup.
 

otch1

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#14
My mistake, refering to Dr. Dodman for student reading material. Someone just mentioned him in another post, so I caught my mistake.
 

Doberluv

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#15
Some interesting points made. In between stopping by this forum and my studies, I came across this and thought I'd throw it on here. Its something I have believed in for a long time and in my observations of my multiple dogs, I see behaviors which many people attribute to dominance, hierarchy plays, social order etc, but I do not label those behaviors as such. It is easy when a "box" is provided, such as the dominance/hierarchy/alpha model...to make certain behaviors fit into that box. That is not a real scientific way to come to a conclusion however. There is more to weigh, other variables to consider, more to study.

I think I grabbed this from a group of articles and partial articles from various university behavior departments. I think this one is from Purdue:

A popular perspective on the social behavior of dogs in multiple-dog households sees the dogs' behavior as reflecting the sociobiological laws of the rigidly structured dominance hierarchy that has been described for wolf packs. This view suggests that aggression problems among dogs are natural expressions of conflict that arise whenever dominance status is in contention. One recommended solution has been for the owner to endorse and enforce a particular dominance hierarchy because, on the wolf pack model, aggression is minimized when the structure of the hierarchy is clear, strong, and stable. This article questions the validity of this perspective on 2 principal grounds. First, because it does not seem to occur in the wild, this article suggests the strong dominance hierarchy that has been described for wolves may be a by-product of captivity. If true, it implies that social behavior--even in wolves--may be a product more of environmental circumstances and contingencies than an instinctive directive. Second, because feral dogs do not exhibit the classic wolf-pack structure, the validity of the canid, social dominance hierarchy again comes into question. This article suggests that behavioral learning theory offers another perspective regarding the behavior of dogs and wolves in the wild or in captivity and offers an effective intervention for aggression problems.

Boemy,

In the wild a wolf pack is a very fluid thing. Wolves aren't always even in a pack....often observed alone. Here where I live in north Idaho, this has certainly been the case on a few occasions....lone wolves observed. A pack generally consists of a Dad, Mom and youngsters, who at a fairly young age disperse and make their own families. There are sometimes a few strays taken in. Some packs are larger at different times of the year and depending on what size game is being hunted. But as the head of the family, naturally the Dad has certain jobs and so does the Mom....raising, nursing the young. There is a division of labor. Any corrections made by either the Dad or Mom are no more significant than any specie with parent caretakers.The term "alpha" adds no additional information. Packing is only significant....or needed for hunting large game, breeding and raising young. The breeding male does not "train" the others. (as we do with our dogs) He rarely uses very harsh discipline. He normally doesn't have to. This is wolves. Domestic dogs are a whole other story. They really ought to be described as an entirely different specie IMO. They share DNA very closely and that's about it in their similarities. I really don't think that we should compare dogs to wolves. It is really irrelevant.
 
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BostonBanker

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#16
I read somewhere and I wish I could remember the exact context it was written but anyways, the chapter was talking about pack mentality wolves vs. people/dogs and it was talking about about how the wolf pack leader stayed the leader by confidence and not by force...and how the same thing applied to the human leader..
I don't know if this is where you read it, but it is described wonderfully in "The Other End of the Leash".
 

sourjayne

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#18
I watched "The Dog Whisperer" a few days ago for the first time. I couldn't believe his emphasis on "making dogs submissive". I didn't think that was still accepted by anyone as a normal way to train--why do people think he is so amazing?:mad:
Yes, I'm on another forum where several of the members use this is there default answer to every question:
Your dog doesn't think of you as the leader. Get the book 'Cesars Way'"
 

Doberluv

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#19
I'm going to copy a little exerp:

Everything you would ever want to know about how dogs learn has been available for decades in the countless papers and books on the topics of operant and classical conditioning in animals. It is astounding how little use has been made of this information in an arena of such obvious direct application: dog training. It's not simply an example of the predictable lag between scientific understanding and practical application of theory, either: many dog trainers are at least 50 years behind. Partly, it's that the love affair between dog owners and Walt Disney has been too tight to allow behaviorism in. We've been clinging to the wish that dogs just might have big, convoluted melon brains like humans, and have a natural desire to please. The fact of the matter is dogs have little, smoothish lemon brains and are looking out for number one. I personally still like them.

The resistance to adopting flat out behaviorism in obedience methods is also partly due to the reality that existing training models have, with all their weaknessses, enabled a sufficiency of dog owners to muddle through with a species that is relatively easy to train. Marine mammal trainers, by contrast, have had no choice but to adopt more sophisticated training methods because their subjects won't tolerate the abuse dogs do. Yet another reason behind the reticence of most dog trainers to bone up on behaviorism is that it is not necessarily easy to translate all that theory and knowledge about rats and pigeons in perfectly controlled environments to basset hounds coming reliably on cue. Every obedience school has tales of psychiatrists and people with PhD's in psychology who are unable to get their Labrador to down-stay in class. Evidently, frowning about "dominance" is a lot simpler.

Operant conditioning is quite literally, the conditionig of operants: Conditioning just means strengthening. And operant is a class or category of behavior, like sitting or grabbing laundry or biting people. Operants get stronger through conditioing the same way muscles get stronger through physical conditioning. When the dog sits at any given instant, its called a response, an individual example of the operant, "sitting." An individual response in weight training is usually called a "rep" or repetition. One instance of a response plus a reinforcer or of a cue plus response plus reinforcer or of a boo boo is called a "trial." A series of (usually 5-10) trials is called a "set." A series of sets on any one occasion is called a "session."

So, if you're conditioing an operant, you're making it stronger: raising it's probability or frequency or occurrence by reinforcing responses. If a dog gets a cookie whenever it sits, the operant "sitting" gets stronger and becomes more probable. There isn't a magical moment where the dog has a flash of insight and "knows" sit. This is where people need to start revising their thinking. The dog either has a strong sit, weak sit or perhaps a nonexistent sit. Training changes probabilities, it doesn't transmit knowledge. Your quadricep doesn't know or understand that the weight lifting has the goal of making it stronger, it gets conditioned through training. And, rememgber, this doesn't make the dog an input-output machine or any less an important member of your family. It is simply the best model to explain how he learns. It's also one of the principle ways we learn too. Operant conditioning is like a window of communication between species.

Operant conditioing also encompasses the use of aversive stimuli to change response probabilities. Aversives are things that motivate by signaling to the animal impending injury or death. I've grown wearier and wearier over the years of the rhetoric in support of the everyday use of aversives in dog training, and will not elaborate here on comments made in earlier chapters regarding their routine use.


1. Dogs do whatever works (behavior is under the control of its consequnces. law of effect)

2. There are four kinds of consequences:

good thing starts (positive reinforcement)

good thing ends (negative punishment)

bad thing starts (positive punishment)

bad thing ends (negative reinforcement)

3. All these consequences must be immediate

4. The good and the bad consequences will end up being associated with other things present at the moment of the consequence as well as affecting the probability of the behavior: these are the classical "side effects" of operant conditioning

5. Dogs are experts at reading the environment to know which consequences are likely for which behaviors in any given situation.
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CM is 50 years behind the times and has it all wrong how dogs are. They are not these dominant heirarchal creatures he makes them out to be. Misbehavior is due to lack of training. It is not about leadership and walking in front of the dog. He attributes all behavior to dominance. What education does he have in the science of behaviorism? NONE. He doesn't understand that dogs very most likely, according to a lot of recent evidence evolved from solitary village dogs, not pack animals. These village dogs evolved from a wolf-like ancestor of the wolf we know today. Our domestic dogs domesticated themselves by finding a niche near humans. They are perpetual juvenille versions of their distant cousin, the wolf. When a dog learns to growl at their owner, say for trying to move them off the couch, the dog is not "disciplining" the owner or trying to become the "alpha." The dog has simply obeyed the laws of learning. He has learned that growling works. "Hey, cool. I growl and he moves away and I get to stay on the couch." That's it. These animals are not trying to dominate the whole family. That is not their intention. They are conditioned to growl or snap by being reinforced for it.

Using aversives is absolutely not needed in training dogs. Dominating them, showing them who's boss by intimidation, coercion, flooding, force has nothing what so ever to do with dogs, how they learn, their behavior, their social aspect, nothing.....or even wolves for that matter. As long as people remain guillable and ignorant, Cesar Milan will keep on being the money making machine he is. If someone wants to learn about dogs, their nature, behaviorism, training, look somewhere else.
 
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Doberluv

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Here's a link to part of the story why the dominance obsession, the whole thing is skewed. The Proto dog which descended from the wolf, but which our dogs descended from was not a pack animal. Our dogs have moved away from that need. They, as the proto dog, surviving from being in proximately to humans.... had/have no need for a particular hierarchy.The niche our dogs live in is not related to a wild wolf pack. Our teaching dogs household rules and setting boundaries is not related to the dominance of a wolf, the alpha concept. Its about teaching. Wolves and wild dogs don't teach their young to not pee in a house, to sit, stay, heel. We need to teach them. We need to have them go along with our rules. But that has nothing to do with dominating them, pack theory, hierarchy.... and much less to do with the use of aversives in teaching. It's more like parenting....nothing more, nothing less. There is no additional information in using the term, "alpha." All parents of all species teach their young and care for them.

If you're interested, be sure to read the whole thing. At the bottom of the first page is a place to click "next." There's a second page.

This is only the tip of the ice berg of the biological, ethological and archeological evidence discussed in the book by Ray and Lorna Coppinger, "Dogs: A Startling New Understanding of Canine Origin, Behavior, & Evolution," which is one of my all time favs. I highly recommend it.

Here's another good explanation from the horse's mouth:

http://www.workingdogweb.com/Coppinger.htm
 

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