Moving beyond the dominance myth

[Doberluv]

I agree with much of what you wrote about the rules and rigidity and the variations depending on lots of factors etc, etc, etc. However, the old studies were very detrimental to the way people think about domestic dogs. First, the two should not even be compared. But the behaviors which were observed and noted with those captive, unrelated wolves were behaviors which do not exist in the wild. And most certainly aren't applicable to domestic dogs according to a lot of recent studies and theories. I don't really want to get into the wolf thing because this is about domestic dogs and they are entirely different behavior -wise as well as physically and mentally....very different. And I do want to stay on topic. I probably shouldn't have mentioned David Mech along with the other scientists. My point was that these highly esteemed, highly educated, highly experienced people should not be poo poo'd. (if you know what I mean)

 

[whatszmatter]

My point was that these highly esteemed, highly educated, highly experienced people should not be poo poo'd. (if you know what I mean)

Everyone is fair game for a little poo poo

I do agree that some of the older studies being used too heavily as the main theory for dog training, but I still think they hold some water and not completely useless.

 

[Boemy]

I think looking at wolf behavior to learn about dogs is legitimate. Obviously, we need to keep in mind that dogs are not wolves. But they are very similar to wolves. Heck, they can even interbreed with wolves and produce fertile offspring. Once in a while I run across a statement like, "But you wouldn't look at a chimpanzee for mothering advice." Chimpanzees and humans shared a common ancestor four to seven million years ago. Dogs and wolves or wild dogs shared a common ancestor 15,000 years ago. In evolutionary terms, that's not long (although selective breeding by humans has certainly widened the gap farther than natural seperation would have.) Both kinds of canines speak the same "language" in the sense that a play-bow means the same thing to a wolf and a dog.

See, I don't think they really dispell anything. The biggest thing I think they've shown is that the rules aren't always as rigid as we once thought, but in no way has shown that the "rules" don't exist.

An interesting example of this are the "swamp lions". I watched a documentary on them . . . Fascinating stuff. They live in a swampy grassland vs. the usual savannah and hunt in a completely different way from "regular" lions. The males don't even kill the cubs of other males! Genetically they're just the same as all the other lions, it's purely a difference of "culture", so to speak.

 

[Doberluv]

Have you read the book by Ray and Lorna Coppinger? I recommend you read it. There is other information but that book is much easier to understand and read.

(Of course they both play bow.) That is not the point I'm trying to make. LOL.