I'm done with electric bark collars
- Thread starter JoeLacy
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Hey, i had similar issues, then i found this guy teaching on youtube about electric collars:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo4g3QOTdKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo4g3QOTdKI
1. This thread is about bark collars. That video is about electric training collars. They are completely different and shouldn't really be discussed in the same context because of the many differences.
2. The video still is rediculous. If it's a "little tickle" that doesn't hurt the dog or really bother the dog at all, why is the dog relieved when the "tickle" stops? Just rediculous.
2. The video still is rediculous. If it's a "little tickle" that doesn't hurt the dog or really bother the dog at all, why is the dog relieved when the "tickle" stops? Just rediculous.
Did you see the video of him wearing the electric collar zapping himself?
Oh that's right you can't because he did not make one. If he is advocating how good electric collars are then he should have made a video of himself wearing one and zapping himself. Better yet have someone zap him. Now that would make a good video and I would be :rofl1:at his facial expressions when the juice is turned on him.
Oh that's right you can't because he did not make one. If he is advocating how good electric collars are then he should have made a video of himself wearing one and zapping himself. Better yet have someone zap him. Now that would make a good video and I would be :rofl1:at his facial expressions when the juice is turned on him.
Looked to me that the dog was not going down on his own. It looked like the dog was falling down when he zapped the dog.
We outlawed the electric chair for cruel and unusual punishment yet we still have people advocating how electric dog collars are so wonderful by idiot's like the guy in the video.
I also just love how it comes up in the video "Please rate this video at 5 stars". He is lucky he got one star from me and that is only because I knew the rating would go down below 5 stars. I hope more people do the same for the rating as I did. Then flag the video.
We outlawed the electric chair for cruel and unusual punishment yet we still have people advocating how electric dog collars are so wonderful by idiot's like the guy in the video.
I also just love how it comes up in the video "Please rate this video at 5 stars". He is lucky he got one star from me and that is only because I knew the rating would go down below 5 stars. I hope more people do the same for the rating as I did. Then flag the video.
Exactly. I hear it all the time...."Oh, it doesn't cause pain or fear." "Then how does it work", I ask. Is it a reward? Does the dog love it? It has to be one or the other or it won't change behavior. A little tickle...whether or not it is not horrendously painful, pain isn't all she wrote. Everyone says, "I tried it on myself and it's not that painful." Well, how do they know how the dog perceives it? A human understands what the mechanism is, is prepared for the upcoming shock (or tickle), knows what's going on. A dog may not feel huge pain, but he doesn't understand what is happening to him or why. He doesn't know that this amount of electricity isn't going to kill him. I think those things are horrible, no matter who is pressing the button or when. I feel the same way about spraying things in their faces or any other harsh, scary aversive. And dogs have an uncanny ability to associate punishment with their owner, even if the owner isn't obviously doing it to them. Training time equals scary, unpleasant time. No thanks. Not for my dogs...not ever.
Ok, I'm sorry-but any animal that walks on all different terrain without protection, bites, mouths and scratches as play and slams into things without batting an eye does not have a low pain tolerance and something that feels like a tickle to a human is not going to somehow transform into unbearable pain for a dog.
Do the dogs understand it when first used? Of course not. They also don't understand what a door slamming shut is, what a car driving by is or even what a marker is when first used. But, like any efficient creature they most adapt and learn and that's exactly what happens with an e-collar used properly to train a dog-they learn. I don't believe a dog has any innate sense that tells them that this sensation they've never felt before is going to electrocute them and kill them. Anymore so than they think that bug that lands on them will lead to their demise.
There is a lot in between pain and pleasure and to neglect that is very narrow minded. You can feel something without it hurting or causing you pleasure and something can be off putting without hurting. I don't like the feeling of my unshaven legs, but I would never say it hurt.
Is a training session using one stressful? Yes, probably. But the same way a good session with a marker and treats is stressful. Stress is not a bad thing, it just is.
And Lolas Dad, when I get my e-collar I'll be sure to make a video of me with it on testing it out just for you. I test out any training device on myself before I use it on one of my dogs and an e-collar will be no different, and you are deluding yourself if you honestly think that any e-collar trainer worth their weight in salt doesn't do the same.
Sorry to derail, just had to say something
On the original topic-I'm not a fan of any of those automatic bark collars, be it electronic or spray. I know how it is to live with a barker, my girl is as silent as can be when playing or not in the yard. But inside at the first noise or motion she sees she lets loose and does not stop. She's a nervy dog and that makes it worse. I wish you luck!
Do the dogs understand it when first used? Of course not. They also don't understand what a door slamming shut is, what a car driving by is or even what a marker is when first used. But, like any efficient creature they most adapt and learn and that's exactly what happens with an e-collar used properly to train a dog-they learn. I don't believe a dog has any innate sense that tells them that this sensation they've never felt before is going to electrocute them and kill them. Anymore so than they think that bug that lands on them will lead to their demise.
There is a lot in between pain and pleasure and to neglect that is very narrow minded. You can feel something without it hurting or causing you pleasure and something can be off putting without hurting. I don't like the feeling of my unshaven legs, but I would never say it hurt.
Is a training session using one stressful? Yes, probably. But the same way a good session with a marker and treats is stressful. Stress is not a bad thing, it just is.
And Lolas Dad, when I get my e-collar I'll be sure to make a video of me with it on testing it out just for you. I test out any training device on myself before I use it on one of my dogs and an e-collar will be no different, and you are deluding yourself if you honestly think that any e-collar trainer worth their weight in salt doesn't do the same.
Sorry to derail, just had to say something
On the original topic-I'm not a fan of any of those automatic bark collars, be it electronic or spray. I know how it is to live with a barker, my girl is as silent as can be when playing or not in the yard. But inside at the first noise or motion she sees she lets loose and does not stop. She's a nervy dog and that makes it worse. I wish you luck!
Thanks for the article, I've read it before though. I re read it just to make sure that my opinion of it is the same and it was.
It's biased from the beginning with very emotional wording and missing some very important information including how the e-collar was used and what kind of e-collar was used. It also is taking the extreme way of using it and making it seem like it's the norm for most e-collar trainers and users.
I don't look at a fanatical positive only trainer that has dogs that know no boundaries, are throwing behaviors left and right, have no precision and with a handler that needs to carry around a bait bag and marker for the dogs whole life and say "See that's why I don't train positive only." That would be absurd and highly inaccurate.
This "study" is a poor one in my opinion and proves very little. Other than this group of trainers use a harder and older school method with their dogs. I'm not going to pass judgment on them, I haven't seen them nor their dogs. I also am not going to believe that taking the reactions from 32 dogs in one place, at one time observed by obviously biased individuals observing highly subjective behaviors shows that e-collars are evil. Especially with no break down on how the collars are being used to train.
Extremes very rarely do anyone any good because the majority of people fall in the middle.
It's biased from the beginning with very emotional wording and missing some very important information including how the e-collar was used and what kind of e-collar was used. It also is taking the extreme way of using it and making it seem like it's the norm for most e-collar trainers and users.
I don't look at a fanatical positive only trainer that has dogs that know no boundaries, are throwing behaviors left and right, have no precision and with a handler that needs to carry around a bait bag and marker for the dogs whole life and say "See that's why I don't train positive only." That would be absurd and highly inaccurate.
This "study" is a poor one in my opinion and proves very little. Other than this group of trainers use a harder and older school method with their dogs. I'm not going to pass judgment on them, I haven't seen them nor their dogs. I also am not going to believe that taking the reactions from 32 dogs in one place, at one time observed by obviously biased individuals observing highly subjective behaviors shows that e-collars are evil. Especially with no break down on how the collars are being used to train.
Extremes very rarely do anyone any good because the majority of people fall in the middle.
For me, personally, I find it unethical to use that type of positive punishment or very much positive punishment at all on a weaker species. Not only is it unethical, I find it unnecessary. I have never had trouble getting the behavior I like, including some very advanced training on dogs using primarily positive reinforcement methods.
For anyone lurking or sitting on the fence as to whether or not to use electricity to get what you want out of your dog:
Say No to Shock Collars
For anyone lurking or sitting on the fence as to whether or not to use electricity to get what you want out of your dog:
Say No to Shock Collars
Can't wait to see it and looking forward to it 
opcorn:. Do yourself a favor and buy it at PetSmart or Petco. At least that way you can return it and get a full refund. Also so that we all know it is on and working make sure that before you try it on yourself that you show up close that the battery is in it and that the collar is actually turned on. Then try it on the lowest setting. After you feel that try it on the highest setting.
I have not seen a video yet of a person trying it on themselves before trying it on their dog. I have seen Victoria Stillwell on "It's me or the dog" where an owner had bought one for their dog. Victoria asked the woman has she ever felt what it was like on herself and she said she never had. Victoria turns the collar on and not even the high setting she was using on her dog then she has the woman hold her arm out so that she could feel it. When Victoria zapped her she pulled her arm away. The woman agreed it was painful and Victoria throws the collar in the trash stating that it will never be put on the dog again.
Any good dog trainer will not need an E collar on a dog and would not recommend one.
However here in this video they found a good use for the E collar
YouTube - Drinking and an electric shock collar.
opcorn:. Do yourself a favor and buy it at PetSmart or Petco. At least that way you can return it and get a full refund. Also so that we all know it is on and working make sure that before you try it on yourself that you show up close that the battery is in it and that the collar is actually turned on. Then try it on the lowest setting. After you feel that try it on the highest setting.I have not seen a video yet of a person trying it on themselves before trying it on their dog. I have seen Victoria Stillwell on "It's me or the dog" where an owner had bought one for their dog. Victoria asked the woman has she ever felt what it was like on herself and she said she never had. Victoria turns the collar on and not even the high setting she was using on her dog then she has the woman hold her arm out so that she could feel it. When Victoria zapped her she pulled her arm away. The woman agreed it was painful and Victoria throws the collar in the trash stating that it will never be put on the dog again.
Any good dog trainer will not need an E collar on a dog and would not recommend one.
However here in this video they found a good use for the E collar
YouTube - Drinking and an electric shock collar.
Another equally biased site that I have read through before. Once again, to me these are irrelevant. I could post as many articles written by advocates with experience as you could post against them. None of these in the end will prove anything.
I don't have a problem with trainers that don't use an e-collar, I have a problem with those who condemn them and the people who use them. Just because you have decided that "Not only is it unethical, I find it unnecessary." doesn't mean others haven't decided the exact opposite thing and I believe it does a great disservice to them and their dogs to take that choice away from them.
I dislike haltis. I find the majority of people abuse them, use them wrong and do not understand them. I think the majority of dogs would be much better off without them. BUT I have seem them used well and used one myself. I have seen situations where one would be a good tool to employ; even if they are rare and far in between. But I do not presume I have the right to tell others that they are not allowed to use one.
There is no always in training, there is no never in training, there are no absolutes in training. I have never thought that every single "problem" dog needs a shock collar to be helped, it depends on the dog and the trainer. Some dogs it is one of the only tools that will work to the correct effectiveness and reliability. Others is a great tool that isn't needed but works wonders.
I will say this-
To all those that are thinking about using one-do your homework and don't skimp on the research. If you can, find a trainer that is diverse in their training technique, has experience with one and makes you and your dog feel comfortable. If you aren't comfortable with an e-collar don't use one and if your dog reacts negatively rethink your approach. Understand, there isn't one way to train, there are many and it's very easy to incorporate a marker, treats, toys, prey drive and an e-collar into your technique. Be creative
Lola's Dad-I'm sorry you haven't found any video's, there are plenty out there of people using it on themselves. I can't get video on the computer I'm on right now but when I have a chance I'll gather some up for you.
I won't be buying from Petsmart or Petco because I want a high quality one that I know works well and has a life time guarantee. I do my research before buying and none at Petco or Petsmart are up to my standard of quality. But thanks for the tip
I don't have a problem with trainers that don't use an e-collar, I have a problem with those who condemn them and the people who use them. Just because you have decided that "Not only is it unethical, I find it unnecessary." doesn't mean others haven't decided the exact opposite thing and I believe it does a great disservice to them and their dogs to take that choice away from them.
I dislike haltis. I find the majority of people abuse them, use them wrong and do not understand them. I think the majority of dogs would be much better off without them. BUT I have seem them used well and used one myself. I have seen situations where one would be a good tool to employ; even if they are rare and far in between. But I do not presume I have the right to tell others that they are not allowed to use one.
There is no always in training, there is no never in training, there are no absolutes in training. I have never thought that every single "problem" dog needs a shock collar to be helped, it depends on the dog and the trainer. Some dogs it is one of the only tools that will work to the correct effectiveness and reliability. Others is a great tool that isn't needed but works wonders.
I will say this-
To all those that are thinking about using one-do your homework and don't skimp on the research. If you can, find a trainer that is diverse in their training technique, has experience with one and makes you and your dog feel comfortable. If you aren't comfortable with an e-collar don't use one and if your dog reacts negatively rethink your approach. Understand, there isn't one way to train, there are many and it's very easy to incorporate a marker, treats, toys, prey drive and an e-collar into your technique. Be creative
Lola's Dad-I'm sorry you haven't found any video's, there are plenty out there of people using it on themselves. I can't get video on the computer I'm on right now but when I have a chance I'll gather some up for you.
I won't be buying from Petsmart or Petco because I want a high quality one that I know works well and has a life time guarantee. I do my research before buying and none at Petco or Petsmart are up to my standard of quality. But thanks for the tip
A humans pain threshold is far less than a dogs is. So those who think it's funny to see someone putting on the collar and shocking themselves is pretty pointless.
To me a shock collar is a tool, to be used at the right time in the right situation. Just like a treat, toy, corrective collar, a clicker, or any other tool you might have in your training arsenal. You don't use a sledgehammer to fix a watch, and you don't use an e-collar to fix basic obedience issues. Many fine dogs have been trained with e-collars. Retrievers who are being trained to respond to commands while they are far away from the trainer. Protection dogs who are being fine tuned on when and how to come off a bite from a distance. It's not something you use to teach a dog to sit and stay, even though some people do that.
Some people look down on any tool they are not experienced with in disdain, based on humanizing their dogs and by reading/seeing opinions of others who feel the same, while refusing to see the other side. They've never had a difficult issue to deal with or a dog that had such high thresholds and drive that they'd never know where to start training. Then there are others who don't like those tools and have the experience and training to understand what the tool is about and make an educated opinion on them. Big difference, and I can respect the latter wholeheartedly.
This thread was about bark collars, on a dog that is a territorial, protective breed, and trying to train the dog to not do what it's instincts told it to do. A tough issue that many of us deal with. If someone who was experienced in the use of such a collar would have worked with the original poster, and they had more time with the dog, I bet they would have had better results. Where the problem lies is those who want a quick fix and don't want to put the time into training the dog. Not saying that is the case with the op here, but it's a common reason for using these tools by those who are not experienced with them.
To me a shock collar is a tool, to be used at the right time in the right situation. Just like a treat, toy, corrective collar, a clicker, or any other tool you might have in your training arsenal. You don't use a sledgehammer to fix a watch, and you don't use an e-collar to fix basic obedience issues. Many fine dogs have been trained with e-collars. Retrievers who are being trained to respond to commands while they are far away from the trainer. Protection dogs who are being fine tuned on when and how to come off a bite from a distance. It's not something you use to teach a dog to sit and stay, even though some people do that.
Some people look down on any tool they are not experienced with in disdain, based on humanizing their dogs and by reading/seeing opinions of others who feel the same, while refusing to see the other side. They've never had a difficult issue to deal with or a dog that had such high thresholds and drive that they'd never know where to start training. Then there are others who don't like those tools and have the experience and training to understand what the tool is about and make an educated opinion on them. Big difference, and I can respect the latter wholeheartedly.
This thread was about bark collars, on a dog that is a territorial, protective breed, and trying to train the dog to not do what it's instincts told it to do. A tough issue that many of us deal with. If someone who was experienced in the use of such a collar would have worked with the original poster, and they had more time with the dog, I bet they would have had better results. Where the problem lies is those who want a quick fix and don't want to put the time into training the dog. Not saying that is the case with the op here, but it's a common reason for using these tools by those who are not experienced with them.