Guilt
- Thread starter Linds
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I think you are reading into what picklepaige is saying. I don't think she's saying getting a breeder dog is killing a shelter dog (especially considering she wants breeder dogs in the future)
There are a lot of people that don't look at rescue and shelter dogs because of misconceptions- this idea that you can't find a nice, cute dog in shelters. they are all 'broken' or 'messed up'.
She's saying that not getting a shelter dog is putting puppies in body bags in a thread about whether people have guilt over buying breeder dogs?
Shai
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The general public varies on this to a degree that makes it difficult to draw any, well, generalities. I've had people say my mutts are adorable, sweet, "too pretty to be a rescue" (Kim), well behaved, skittish (also Kim), and likely to turn in me one day and kill me in my sleep because that's what rescues do.
I have also had them insinuate that my purebreds are a waste of money, ill-gotten, gorgeous, brilliant, the direct reason a rescue dog was killed, and had dollar signs pop into their eyes as they inquire how much I can charge for all the puppies I am surely making with them.
There are bad breeders. There are rescues just as bad. There are good breeders and there are good rescues. Some (of both) go above and beyond, some just do what they need to and wish you well and move on.
So no, I don't feel badly about purchasing my two purpose bred dogs. I don't feel bad about my fish store purchased dog. I don't feel bad about my private foster Petfinder dog or my cat purchased from the Humane Society.
Kim and Brie made room for other animals to be saved, and that's a good thing. Mira and Lodin helped to not bankrupt people trying to breed good dogs and have their health and other information available to help with future breeding decisions for the lines and breeds from which they come. And Webster is out of a crappy situation, didn't end up in the shelter that puts dogs down for resource guarding, and didn't result in a profit for the fish store so I'm calling that a win too.
I have also had them insinuate that my purebreds are a waste of money, ill-gotten, gorgeous, brilliant, the direct reason a rescue dog was killed, and had dollar signs pop into their eyes as they inquire how much I can charge for all the puppies I am surely making with them.
There are bad breeders. There are rescues just as bad. There are good breeders and there are good rescues. Some (of both) go above and beyond, some just do what they need to and wish you well and move on.
So no, I don't feel badly about purchasing my two purpose bred dogs. I don't feel bad about my fish store purchased dog. I don't feel bad about my private foster Petfinder dog or my cat purchased from the Humane Society.
Kim and Brie made room for other animals to be saved, and that's a good thing. Mira and Lodin helped to not bankrupt people trying to breed good dogs and have their health and other information available to help with future breeding decisions for the lines and breeds from which they come. And Webster is out of a crappy situation, didn't end up in the shelter that puts dogs down for resource guarding, and didn't result in a profit for the fish store so I'm calling that a win too.
I don't follow your question.
I do feel like dog people sometimes... justify things? so they don't feel bad?
For the record, I have two breeder dogs. I don't have guilt over that. I could have gotten a Chihuahua from the shelter I worked at at that time. I didn't. Why? I wanted a papillon. Right or wrong, I did. I love my papillons. I'm glad I got them.
But on the other hand dogs in shelters do need people to buy/adopt/rescue them. If everyone thinks they're broken and no one is adopting them then yeah there's less dogs going into homes.
And just to be clear I don't think people should have to justify purchases of dogs.
I mean... people do need to adopt the shelter dogs though or where else will they go? That's really all I'm trying to say.
My point was that not getting a breeder dog doesn't mean someone would have gotten a shelter dog. More explicitly: People aren't necessarily not getting shelter dogs but getting other dogs because they think shelter dogs are broken or they don't know how great they are.
I literally would not have gotten dogs at all if I hadn't gotten Squash and Toast. Had nothing to do with what shelter dogs are or aren't, but that I fell in love with two specific dogs when I wasn't actively looking. I guess I or anyone in my position could be justifying, but back to the OP they don't make me feel guilty.
I literally would not have gotten dogs at all if I hadn't gotten Squash and Toast. Had nothing to do with what shelter dogs are or aren't, but that I fell in love with two specific dogs when I wasn't actively looking. I guess I or anyone in my position could be justifying, but back to the OP they don't make me feel guilty.
And that's honestly a mindset I have a problem with. What needs to happen is less dogs go INTO shelters instead of guilting people into taking dogs OUT of shelters.
There are some great programs being instituted in shelters in various places in the US that are reducing surrender rates by doing things like requiring appointments for surrender and offering free behavior/training counseling at that appointment. Keeping dogs in homes is what keeps dogs out of shelters in the first place.
That obviously happens but I would think for the majority of dogs there is a decision of 'i want a dog' and then further 'I will get my dog from ____'
Most people I know didn't just happen to have a dog show up. Ty actively wanted a dog so went out looking for a dog.
Most people I know didn't just happen to have a dog show up. Ty actively wanted a dog so went out looking for a dog.
milos_mommy
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Do I think doing your research and getting a dog from a good breeder who is going to take care to be knowledgable about where their puppies are going and make sure they are taken care of for life is contributing to the death of shelter dogs? No. Not at all. Especially not if you're looking for a very specific, niche puppy that you KNOW you can't easily or feasibly find in a shelter.
But I think people who decide they want a pet dog and go out and buy a pet only popular breed, even if the breeder is "good" in that they health test and such....yeah, 60+ dogs just got put down in my county TODAY, and I guarantee at least 10 of them could have provided for your family what that breeder dog did. And chances are, that breeder sold 5 or 8 or 10 puppies to similar families. So yeah, I do think if more people adopted instead of purchased dogs, yes, less dogs would be going into body bags. And honestly, if you're purchasing a dog to be nothing more than a pet and there's no reason you need a specific breed other than "they're a good family dog"...yeah, I do think you're contributing to the high rates of euthanasia....
But I think people who decide they want a pet dog and go out and buy a pet only popular breed, even if the breeder is "good" in that they health test and such....yeah, 60+ dogs just got put down in my county TODAY, and I guarantee at least 10 of them could have provided for your family what that breeder dog did. And chances are, that breeder sold 5 or 8 or 10 puppies to similar families. So yeah, I do think if more people adopted instead of purchased dogs, yes, less dogs would be going into body bags. And honestly, if you're purchasing a dog to be nothing more than a pet and there's no reason you need a specific breed other than "they're a good family dog"...yeah, I do think you're contributing to the high rates of euthanasia....
Both needs to happen. Especially in certain areas of the country.
I know a lot of you guys are up north. I am not sure if you have the same vast amounts of unwanted dogs as we do here or especially in Texas. I think Alabama and such is even worse. It is a very mutli-faceted and cultural problem.
The shelter I worked at had a lot of policies that needed changing for sure. Not gonna argue that. Hank's shelter since 2007 has gone from a 26% live release to over 50% live release (haven't seen data these last few years). So yeah obviously there's a lot that can be done.
There's a lot of different ways that this needs to be tackled but I do believe part of it is still adopting dogs out. And getting people to adopt dogs from the shelter.
release the hounds
Active Member
why would it result in less? you think breeders just stop breeding dogs? oh, the ones doing things the right way would find less customers and breed less, leaving the void to be filled by those that don't care. Sounds like a great plan. If you've never taken a dog to a shelter, if you've never dumped a dog, if you've gotten ten thousand dogs from a breeder and have never surrendered one of them you have NEVER put a dog in a body bag.
I"m pretty sure those 60, at least 10 of those could have lived a full and happy life had they gone to someone willing to fulfill their obligations and responsibilities. it makes ZERO difference where they came from, it matters completely with who they went home with in the first place.
I can't understand how people getting dogs out of the shelters is not helping the issue. Like I said it's a multi-faceted and cultural issue. It is improving in many areas but these things don't change overnight. A lot of what has helped in the shelters I am familiar with is more working with rescues to pull animals, and more exposure for adoptable animals.
release the hounds
Active Member
and I don't get how people think that someone who gets a dog that will never, ever see another home other than the one they gave them, are making the problem worse?
This is it, for me.
I have a rescue dog so it's not that I'm anti-rescue but I have visited countries with less of a problem than we do in the States and it's not because they have a higher preponderance of people who adopt than buy - if anything the culture was more "get a good breeder dog, socialize and exercise the ever living hell out of it." More dogs stayed in homes. That was just my impression though, but it's stuck with me.
Because of that I do not think, if I'm being brutally cynical about it, that me adopting Astro did anything to cure anything except in the most immediate of senses. It was still a good thing, it gave my precious wonderful lunatic a chance and it opened a spot for another dog to take his kennel space, but it did nothing to address why that kennel space keeps getting filled as far as I can tell. So it helped but I'm pretty pessimistic about how much it helped, I guess?
I would love to see numbers about lots of aspects of this topic, because individual perception definitely affects all of us and it becomes so personal, and understandably so.
I didn't say they were making the problem worse.
But it's also not making the problem better. And I mean that in truly the most non judgmental way possible. I feel like Mia and Summer were a kind of neutral thing.
Do people HAVE to want to help the problem? No. I just wish more people wouldn't write it off. I find a lot of people have completely written it off, often because of false reasoning such as 'they are all broken'.
But it's also not making the problem better. And I mean that in truly the most non judgmental way possible. I feel like Mia and Summer were a kind of neutral thing.
Do people HAVE to want to help the problem? No. I just wish more people wouldn't write it off. I find a lot of people have completely written it off, often because of false reasoning such as 'they are all broken'.
The whole dog culture in those countries is different. I don't think you can compare the US presently with Europe. They have a lot more laws and are much stricter in pet ownership (see the prong thread). I feel like this is the US's problem to deal with in the way that fits in with our own pet ownership culture.
Adopting a single dog isn't a huge deal in the grand cosmic scheme of things. But if NO ONE wanted to adopt dogs then there would be a lot more dogs put down. It takes a lot of small individual efforts to make any kind of big change.
What kind of numbers are you looking for? You can usually do some good research and find out about what is going on in your community. With Hank's shelter I have found stats over the years for euth rates, live release rates, intakes, etc.
release the hounds
Active Member
ok, how is someone that keeps a dog from the moment they get it, till the day it dies not helping? Seems to me if more people did that, it would help tremendously
Picklepaige
Active Member
My next dog is coming from a breeder, so that is definitely not what I'm saying.