e- collars
- Thread starter sisco16
- Start date
There have been many threads on this already, normally I don't have a problem with repeat threads but training ones can get quite heated so I would suggest you do a search in the training section.
My general opinion: I will not inflict pain on my dog or force him to endure things he finds extremely scary in the name of training. That means no collar pops, no chokers, no prongs, no hitting, no ear pinching, no hanging by the collar, no alpha rolling, no kicking, no head collars if it flips him out, no scruff shaking and no electrocuting...among other things.
My general opinion: I will not inflict pain on my dog or force him to endure things he finds extremely scary in the name of training. That means no collar pops, no chokers, no prongs, no hitting, no ear pinching, no hanging by the collar, no alpha rolling, no kicking, no head collars if it flips him out, no scruff shaking and no electrocuting...among other things.
I dont agree with them really either i just wanted your opinions. But Maxy when you say
no head collars what do you mean I couldnt live without the gentle leader collars, and a muzzle for one of my sibes he is dog agressive and i would not feel safe putting him in a situation with other dogs without it on.
no head collars what do you mean I couldnt live without the gentle leader collars, and a muzzle for one of my sibes he is dog agressive and i would not feel safe putting him in a situation with other dogs without it on.
After learning that there are some things that my dogs find more exciting than me (i.e. a rotting, disgusting-yet-delicious-to-dogs severed deer leg) and having to chase an otherwise bombproof dog through a cornfield in an ice storm for over an hour...
... I keep ecollars on my dogs when off leash in an unfenced area. No way am I going to ever let them off completely "naked" - they're very good dogs and I haven't had to actually push the button in a very long time, but if they get themselves into a hazardous situation, I want to be able to give them a "this means business" correction from afar.
Kaylee does not wear one - she is not bonded to me well enough yet, nor does she have a deep understanding of an informal recall yet. Ilsa wore one, and Ronin wears one. Their first response to the discomfort of an e-collar should be (IMO) the instinct to run to me for protection and support.
This is the *only* thing I use an e-collar for. I'd rather have an e-collar dog than a dead dog.
... I keep ecollars on my dogs when off leash in an unfenced area. No way am I going to ever let them off completely "naked" - they're very good dogs and I haven't had to actually push the button in a very long time, but if they get themselves into a hazardous situation, I want to be able to give them a "this means business" correction from afar.
Kaylee does not wear one - she is not bonded to me well enough yet, nor does she have a deep understanding of an informal recall yet. Ilsa wore one, and Ronin wears one. Their first response to the discomfort of an e-collar should be (IMO) the instinct to run to me for protection and support.
This is the *only* thing I use an e-collar for. I'd rather have an e-collar dog than a dead dog.
^ Using this is a good example - as with many devices that can potentially harm a dog, I agree with their use when used -correctly-. This is a good example. Sizzle is not using it as a correction, she's using it as a harsh reminder when it is needed. The dogs associate her with the safe place away from the pain, they do not associate her WITH the pain.
No, no, I'm talking about dogs who find them absolutely terrifying. I know there are ways to desensitize scared dogs to them and if you can then go ahead but to just put one on a dog that is completely scared of them is IMO unkind and depending on the dog and just how frightened he is, downright cruel. My friend's trainer put one on my friend Pyr who stated bucking like a horse, the woman actually gave him leash pops on the collar and when he layed down and refused to move she dragged him along the floor until he stood up. My friend nearly began to cry and did not buy the collar.
As far as other tools, if people want to use them there is nothing I can do about it, they are not my dogs. I just can't stand when people refuse to acknowledge that they hurt the dog, sort of like when Cesar Millan and his followers claim the collar pops and neck jabs don't hurt the dog they simply throw him off balance and get his attention
that's why they shrink and flatten their ears.
People at least need to realize that when used properly these tools hurt, that is why they work.
As far as other tools, if people want to use them there is nothing I can do about it, they are not my dogs. I just can't stand when people refuse to acknowledge that they hurt the dog, sort of like when Cesar Millan and his followers claim the collar pops and neck jabs don't hurt the dog they simply throw him off balance and get his attention
that's why they shrink and flatten their ears.People at least need to realize that when used properly these tools hurt, that is why they work.
They can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.
They also can be quite valuable. I use them for crittering. After exhausting all other training options. Alley wore one at all times. Nyx now wears one - she has shown me that she is quite adept at freeing herself from a leash and she is so high drive and my yard isn't fenced that I do worry that she'd run off. The first time I put it on her, I took her out and made sure she would know that shock meant for her to come to me. As sizzle mentioned, I like for that to be their first instinct, and it was with her. But I do it on a long line - dog is away from me, but I have the ability to bring him to me if he can't figure that part out. She also does usually come to me for a tug toy, and if she does escape the leash, I will go for a tug before I go for a shock, but I need the back-up *just in case*.
And yes, they do cause discomfort. I am well aware of that. But when I hit the button on Nyx and when I used it on Alley and when Tyr gets a prong collar correction ~ their ears are still up and forward and relaxed, their tails are still up and wagging, their body carriage is still full of confidence.
They also can be quite valuable. I use them for crittering. After exhausting all other training options. Alley wore one at all times. Nyx now wears one - she has shown me that she is quite adept at freeing herself from a leash and she is so high drive and my yard isn't fenced that I do worry that she'd run off. The first time I put it on her, I took her out and made sure she would know that shock meant for her to come to me. As sizzle mentioned, I like for that to be their first instinct, and it was with her. But I do it on a long line - dog is away from me, but I have the ability to bring him to me if he can't figure that part out. She also does usually come to me for a tug toy, and if she does escape the leash, I will go for a tug before I go for a shock, but I need the back-up *just in case*.
And yes, they do cause discomfort. I am well aware of that. But when I hit the button on Nyx and when I used it on Alley and when Tyr gets a prong collar correction ~ their ears are still up and forward and relaxed, their tails are still up and wagging, their body carriage is still full of confidence.
Anyone holding down the button is someone who hasn't learned to use one safely or someone pretty dense, either way that isn't the kind of person who should ever own an e-collar. In the right hands I find them better than chokers, haltis or gentle leaders, all of which can cause serious damage to a dog.
What Doberlov said-----why risk a loose dog? No matter how well trained, the possibility of an accident is still there.
What Doberlov said-----why risk a loose dog? No matter how well trained, the possibility of an accident is still there.
But isn't there also the risk that your dog will ignore the shock, not respond as you expect, the collar will fail, etc? When I was doing animal control, we had a lab breeder/trainer who used the e-collars to work his dogs in the park. One day out of the blue, the collar got "stuck" on, shocking non-stop and the dog had an (understandable) meltdown and was shrieking and running though the parking lot. ANYTHING can fail, from your recall command, to an electric collar, to the dog slipping a collar while on leash.
While I respect that their are phenomenal dog owners, here and elsewhere, who take great care of their dogs and love them dearly, and who chose to use the collars, I just couldn't. I'd walk Meg on leash for the rest of her life before I'd shock her. Or just keep doing what I'm doing - training her the best I know how, rewarding her recalls constantly, and taking that chance.
While I respect that their are phenomenal dog owners, here and elsewhere, who take great care of their dogs and love them dearly, and who chose to use the collars, I just couldn't. I'd walk Meg on leash for the rest of her life before I'd shock her. Or just keep doing what I'm doing - training her the best I know how, rewarding her recalls constantly, and taking that chance.
Yup, anything can fail. And I do continue to walk Nyx on leash, but she has gotten loose several times - walking her on two leashes won't always help ~ sometimes she gets loose because my hands don't always work properly. And I do continue to reward her recalls heavily and when she gets loose, I grab a tug to bribe her with.
But I would rather have a shock collar on her and ready to use than have her get hit by a car - the road I live on is busy, fast, and has a blind hill right past my driveway, or shot - there is someone who regularly is shooting nearby, or get into a tangle with the wildlife - we do have foxes, beavers, maybe snapping turtles, owls and I don't know what else here.
But I would rather have a shock collar on her and ready to use than have her get hit by a car - the road I live on is busy, fast, and has a blind hill right past my driveway, or shot - there is someone who regularly is shooting nearby, or get into a tangle with the wildlife - we do have foxes, beavers, maybe snapping turtles, owls and I don't know what else here.
I don't know that is why I was asking. I have seen dogs spook and RUN AWAY when shocked. So while I do understand how some people would want them for 'extra' help when off leash... I have seen it back fire if the dog is not listening cause its spooked (vs chasing a squirrel)
And the fact that some dogs can ignore the shock just as much as a recall when they are prey drive. If I don't think I can call my dogs back.. I don't let them off leash.
And the fact that some dogs can ignore the shock just as much as a recall when they are prey drive. If I don't think I can call my dogs back.. I don't let them off leash.
This is exactly what I have been thinking. I know I would worry about making my already fearful dog even more scarred.
Besides, if I am in a situation where I am not 100% sure of Bens recall, he is not offleash. Lilly is totally bomb proof and has a 110% reliable recall, but she is still onleash in busy areas or on roads.
Besides, if I am in a situation where I am not 100% sure of Bens recall, he is not offleash. Lilly is totally bomb proof and has a 110% reliable recall, but she is still onleash in busy areas or on roads.
