Dekka has made a good point. I know that the place that I started with all those years ago, didn't do me any favors on any level. We had no on the flat foundations work, a quick intro to the equipment and long sequences and courses. And we too, just stopped the dogs for a second in the contact zone etc. The results were disastrous. My dog was/is a very very fast high drive dog, he was out of control and it took me two years to retrain him after that start in agility. Now my friend also started in the same place at the same time, her dog a was kind of point and shoot type along with being a velcro dog. It didn't have any long lasting ill effects from what turned out to be inferiour training. The interesting thing is, that same trainer is still training and as far as I know most of them never end up competing. But they all come out to a non sanctioned local event..............oh gezzz it is painful to watch these people and their dogs, sad actually, they can not get around a course on any level. And the dogs are so stressed, truely not knowing the job that they are to do........no wonder most of them never carry on with training. Let alone having enough skills to compete.