Advice on adding to the pack

malmo

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#1
Hi, everyone. I apologize in advance for the long post, but adding to my family is something I take VERY seriously!

I used to be on chaz a lot, talking about Milo (a maltese mix) and McGee (a chihuahua mix, who was born and adopted by me during my time on chaz). Sadly, Milo passed away from a sudden cancer late last year at the age of 10. Here's a photo of the two of them together shortly before Milo got sick.



I'm an art therapist at a residential treatment center for adolescent girls. I have the great joy of being able to bring my dogs to work, so the loss of Milo has been hard on the teenagers I work with as well. McGee and I have been going through our grief process. She is an anxious, timid dog by nature and we have done a lot of training with her. Specifically, we use Click to Calm techniques to help temper her fear responses in new situations.

McGee is now 5 years old. Until Milo was gone, I never realized how much of her leader he was. Her timidity has gone up and she seems very lonely and sad. Sometimes she doesn't eat for 2-3 days in a row. When we have play dates, she seems to perk right up and do better for a few days, including eating and socializing. See the evidence of positive play date below.



I love that tail!

Because of this, it seems like adding to our pack sooner rather than later might not be a horrible idea. Until Milo's death, McGee had only ever been alone when Milo went to the groomers or the hospital. I'm interested in your thoughts, as chazzers have never let me down before. I have experience with basic-to-intermediate obedience training, including clicker training, NILIF, and mental stimulation. I do crate training and my dogs live in the house. They are all trained to ring a bell when they need to go outside, etc.

More about me: I own my own home with a fully fenced yard. I now live in a city where it gets cold and snowy. Most days of the week I take my dogs to work with me. I have friends and family in the area who love my dogs and can dogsit when I go out of town, though I have been known to take both dogs with me in planes, etc. for travel. I can afford vet care and walkers/boarding when needed. (Though Milo's cancer treatments almost tapped me out, I'm rebuilding those savings.)

At work, my dogs are required to be tolerant and friendly and relaxed around a lot of different kinds of people and with an unpredictable schedule (sometimes I am in meetings most of the day, sometimes they do nothing but get attention). They often join therapy sessions to sit on laps and be petted. They have crates and hidey-holes in my office for when they want to be left alone. I am connected with the therapy animals association in town (they bring dogs to our treatment center weekly) so if I wanted to pursue full TDI certification, that's a total possibility.

Gender, color, "cuteness" are way less important to me than temperament and a good fit. After going through the process of evaluating my lifestyle and needs, here is a short list of things that are most important to me, in order of priority.

  • Trainability. I have never had a very trainable dog. I'm very willing to adapt my life around my dogs' needs, but it would also be nice if they could shape around mine sometimes, too.
  • Temperament. After owning a dominant/hyper dog and a timid/shy dog, I would love to have a middle-of-the-road, tolerant, adaptable companion for work and home.
  • Energy level. Moderate energy is best. I am not much of a jogger/hiker. I can throw a ball or a frisbee with the best of them and don't mind short-to-medium daily walks. Mostly, though, my dogs get a lot of mental stimulation through mental games, interacting with a variety of people, and play time.
  • Grooming. I am eliminating heat/cold sensitive dogs and would prefer one that does not require constant haircuts. I bathe my dogs weekly or biweekly, and do all of my own nail clipping, anal gland expressing, etc. I would just rather eliminate the trips to the groomers for clips and haircuts.
  • Size. McGee weighs 6-7 pounds and my boss would prefer that any dog hanging around the office weigh 25 pounds or less.
  • Age. With McGee's timidity, she can meet and get along with older dogs, but actually bonds with puppies. The dog pictured with her above was met as a puppy and they are now great friends. I'm leaning towards adding a puppy and doing my own socializing, but am open to the right older dog if found.

So, for instance, I LOVE Italian Greyhounds, but they don't match the temperament and cold-tolerant bullet points. I enjoy the company of large dogs, but don't feel they are right for McGee at this time, etc. Who can hang around chazhound for very long and not be intrigued by Papillons?! Of all the purebreed options, I think this one matches me best. (Right size, right grooming requirements, right temperament and trainability, etc.) Unfortunately, most of the reputable breeders I have spoken with in my area won't have puppies available until the summer or later. There's a breeder who I'm not CRAZY about (She has dogs from very reputable lines, just doesn't do any conformation herself.) but will have puppies available in April-ish.

Meanwhile, there is a litter of rescue puppies that will be available soon. The woman caring for them works as an animal trainer at the zoo, has taught obedience classes and has volunteered at our local Humane Society doing temperament testing for matching dogs with families. She had identified 2 puppies in the litter as being the most tolerant and moderate temperaments. Of those two, one seems to be very interested in exploring her environment and the other seems very interested in me. I am first in line for adopting him, if I decide to have him.







Momma is a black and tan cocker spaniel (25-30 pounds maybe?) and daddy is suspected to be a neighborhood miniature australian shepherd. Because of the foster lady's background, the puppies are getting good socialization, vet care, etc. The dog as an adult may push the upper limit of my work's size requirements and, as with all mutts, there's no guarantee of anything. But he is very sweet and seems to be a very good dog so far. (He's 8 weeks now, wouldn't be coming home with me for 2 more weeks.)

So, the way I see it, here are my options. Please weigh in!

  • Sure-but-delayed thing. Wait until summer, hold tight with lonely McGee, forget the rescue puppy and get a Papillon from the super-awesome breeder.
  • Less-sure thing. Get over my breeder snobbiness and get a Papillon from the meh breeder now, forget the rescue puppy.
  • Big risk thing. Get the rescue puppy now, hope for the best, be content with 2 dogs.
  • Crazy thing. Get the rescue puppy now, hope for the best, and potentially add a well-bred Papillon down the road. (The question of having 3 dogs is for another post entirely!)
  • Something else?

OK, Chazzers. There's the whole, long story. I've never bought from a breeder before -- only rescue scenarios. What would you do?
 

cloudcandy

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#2
Oooohhh...I don't know!But I love McGee :( look's so sweet,horrible to think she is lonely.Sorry for your loss also.
The first thing I would do in this situation is...ask Chaz!That pup look's very sweet though,I'd be interested to see how they grow up and what they will look like!
 

Maxy24

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#5
I would not go for the breeder you are not crazy about, either the really good breeder or the rescue pup. If you are very strict about finding a dog who fits the criteria you listed I'd wait for the breeder pup but if you aren't super picky I'd go the rescue pup route. You can't be sure about temperament, size, or coat with a pup from a shelter/rescue (or a BYB for that matter). You can get some idea, but can't really be secure in it. So I guess it depends on how upset you'd be if the rescue pup didn't fit the criteria you've set forth. The rescue pup certainly could be perfect, but the odds are better with the good breeder pup (assuming they are breeding dogs that fit what you like). But who knows, the rescue pup could end up being absolutely perfect.
 

Dekka

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#6
Too bad I couldn't clone Bounce, she sounds exactly what you are looking for.

Those puppies look cute ;)

When you say needs to deal with cold, how cold are you talking (I am in Ontario, but I don't think my idea of cold and your idea of cold are the same thing)
 

malmo

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#8
@Dekka, I'd LOVE a Bounce clone!

No, you are right. Our winters are not as severe as yours are -- I just know that McGee is suffering in this cold and no amount of fleece sweatshirts or blanket-filled crates seem to help her warm up!

For you puppy lovers, here are two more photos of the little rescue boy tonight:





He's a killer with those blue eyes.

My #1 concern with him is that he will be a much bigger dog than I am used to. There are pros to the tiny dogs, and pros to the larger ones, too. Some will laugh to read this -- but I have never had a dog over 10 pounds so it is an issue for me that he may grow to be as big as 25 or 30 pounds.

Other than that, a lovely bloke indeed.

I clearly need to start another thread asking about 2 dogs vs. 3.
 

Barb04

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#9
I'd go for the cute puppy. I had to laugh about the 25 pounds as my smallest is 62 and biggest is 140. I think you will do just fine.
 

Dekka

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#10
Meet the puppies and if you can spend time with them. I have mostly under 15 pound JRTs. Bounce is 18 pounds and Dash is 22. Then you take Sport (who is a BC and not in my siggy because he is really my 11 year old son's dog) who is well over 30 pounds.

Yes there is a big difference with the size dif between Sport and the rest. I do prefer smaller as they are more portable, more convenient and more economical. But that doesn't mean I would turn down an other wise ideal dog due to being a little bigger than I want. Its not THAT big of a deal.

That said if you don't decide on one of the puppies you could look into whippets. LH whippets are very rare, but regular whippets should be able to handle your winter with no issue as long as they had a coat for going outside in the cold. I know many a whippet that lives up here happily. They are a bit like iggies only more outgoing and less 'snarky' with other dogs.
 

malmo

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#11
Maybe this is a question for the breeds board, but any thoughts about the cocker/aussie mix? As I've mentioned, he seems to be the tolerant, people-oriented, on-the-mellow side kid in the litter. Still, though, there are breed considerations.

Many thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts already!
 

Dekka

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#12
Puppies can change a LOT as they age. I have had puppies who as grown ups are very different than they were at 8 weeks. IME if there is a strong trend it usually stays. But the really mellow puppy might grow up to be the most active. This is one of the issues going with a mixed breed puppy, esp if you don't know the parents.

If you like the puppy over all you will likely love the dog. But don't base the dog's adult traits on the puppy's, at least not completely. Is there anyway to get info on the parent's temperament?
 

MafiaPrincess

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#13
I'm not a shepherd person, I am a cocker person though. Mine are 22 and 24 pounds. Cider is 24 pounds, and over breed standard. Smudge is good in the cold, Cider wears a sweater most of the winter even indoors, but she's a weenie. I'm in Ontario, we do get decent cold, but sweaters and coats are enough to do outside play or walks... and even without mine sometimes get 'lost' in the yard playing.

You may or may not get a funky coat as a cocker needs more frequent brushing than a herder usually does and collect burrs and such more easily..

As a mix, no one can tell you how that puppy will be really. There's how a well bred version of each breed acts, and than shades of variation of less well bred, and the consideration you are getting something in the middle.
 

malmo

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#14
@MafiaPrincess, many thanks for your input. I was hoping to hear from you!

@Dekka, I have met the rescue pup's momma as she is living with the litter right now. The lady who is fostering them is doing training stuff with her and momma is picking things up very well. She is sweet and lets me pet and cuddle her. She seems good with the puppies. She barks a bit when I come in, but is easily quieted. If dad is the australian shepherd they think he is, all we know is that he is friendly and gets along with other dogs. He is about the same height as the momma, but thinner and lighter (which would put him in the 20-25 pounds range).

I don't get an aggressive vibe off the momma and she seems like she is picking up on training stuff, so that may be a good sign.

Again, many thanks to all who are chiming in. This is a hard decision which is compounded by my own emotions, given how difficult it is to watch McGee suffering with being alone. It's months since we lost Milo and she still has days where she only mopes around, won't eat, won't potty, etc. If it were totally up to me, I would wait until summer and just get the well-bred pap. In some ways, the rescue puppy would be rushing things a bit to ease McGee's suffering and, by extension, mine.
 

malmo

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#15
Just had to add...

Here's a picture of that little monkey playing with a blanket that I took over there last night. I want him to have a transitional object in case he comes home with me in a couple of weeks.



That's his momma standing next to him.
 

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