Advice: Getting Tosca to take commands from others

[ToscasMom]

When I saw Riot's video tape with his "gramma", I thought how great it is to see a dog relate like that to more than one person. I am afraid I failed at that.

Tosca will not listen to a soul unless it's me. She gets this "you can just get lost" look on her face and, at first blush, it was what I wanted. While I think it's great because she will never listen to the wrong person or ever be confused as to whose orders she must take, it's not so great when I think of what might happen if a situation arose where taking commands from another person was necessary.

For example, she really likes my SO and enjoys his company, but when it comes to discipline, it is very clear that she does not see him as anything other than somebody she does something for if she wants to. If I leave the room she instantly follows me unless I tell her to stay. He can tell her to sit 5 times and she won't if she doesn't feel like it. She goes completely deaf. I say it the 6th time and she's sitting. He walks with her sometimes and he says she behaves very well, but I wonder if a tempting distraction came along if she would listen to him. This scares me a little.

I would like to work on this, is there a secret or a method to making her a bit more open to instructions from certain people?

 

[Lilavati]

I actually have a similar problem with Sarama. In her case,she's so busy wriggling and wagging that she doesn't listen to a word he says. So I'll second Tosca's request . . . advice?

 

[Charliesmommy]

Have you ever had the SO do some regimented training with her? Basically start from scratch with treats, etc?

 

[ToscasMom]

Yeah charlie, the thing I don't understand is I have always found her to be treat driven. He holds a treat near her and she just looks at him. lol. Sometimes he gives her the treat anyways and I'm sure she has that figured out too. It works if I am there and 'reinforce'. I mean, what good is that? Frankly, I think he feels really bad that she doesn't listen to him. I think he thinks she doesn't respect him. I mean she loves him but there's a "but" there. She could by lying on him on the couch and I leave the room and she leaves. It's really kind of sad. I feel badly for him.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Sounds like maybe he needs a dog of his very own?

Charlie won't take commands from anyone but me either, but it's not really a problem for me because he isn't ever really with anyone else.

Hm. Don't know what to tell you. Maybe Doberluv or somebody will have ideas. Goodluck.

 

[ToscasMom]

The other thing is I am a NILIF person by nature. I mean Tosca will do five tricks if she even THINKs I am going to share something with her. But I know he always gives her things to eat without her having to do a thing. I have started putting a stop to that because I think it is part of what is going on. She doesn't HAVE to listen to him. So this past week he has stopped doing that, at least as far as I can see. I just think he's a pushover for her and she knows it, so she really DOESN'T respect him.

 

[Charliesmommy]

Sounds like you may have just answered your own question!

Another thing you might think about - when Charlie was in puppy school they told us to make sure we did NOT feed the pups before class. A hungry dog is much easier to train! Maybe have him work with her a bit just before dinner time.

 

[Doberluv]

I always, from the time Lyric was young would ask people to ask for a sit when they wanted to give him a treat. I had people give him treats just to help the socialization process along...to associate friendly strangers with a good time. But I didn't necessarily want him to get everything for "free." So, they might ask, "Is it Ok to give him a treat?" And I'd say, "ask him to sit first." Or I might ask someone if they'd give him a treat that I brought along and ask them to ask for a sit or a shake....something.

But you can do that now. If your dog won't sit for someone else, you can stand right near the person, with the person facing the dog and ask for a sit. Then that other person gives the treat. You can also have your SO do some of the feeding. When it's time to put the bowl down, have him hold the bowl and ask for a sit or a down....some little trick and then feed. Your SO (and then some other friends) could walk with you and hold the leash and give treats along the way. Make a big fuss over your dog when she complies. Gradually, have various people ask for a trick and give a treat.

My vet loves asking Lyric for a hand shake. He does that before he gives a treat. He doesn't even have to ask for a sit because Lyric automatically sits since he's learned that there is a good posibility of getting a cookie so he just sits and often throws his big paw up into the air without being asked either. LOL. As far as "come," and some other things, Lyric isn't all that great about....not with everyone. He does mind my son who lives with me and my daughter. But my Dad, whom he doesn't see that often told him to come in a bossy tone and Lyric ignored him. LOL. My Dad doesn't get it that he doesn't have to sound like a drill sergeant and if he sounded friendlier, he'd probably get futher with Lyric.

Lots of dogs tend to be mainly obedient to their owner but it is nice for them to understand that all humans are "important." (that is....if that's the way you want your dog to see the world. Some people prefer that their dogs do not take instruction from anyone else.) I like my dog to "respect" and look up to humans in general. It doesn't spoil his "protective" ways. It just makes him view humans in a way that I want him to view humans....as generally good, trustworthy and positive. In short, start including other people as people who also control some of your dog's resources.

 

[Doberluv]

I took so long with my post that I missed all but the first two which I had read. LOL. So, she's not treat motivated...What does motivate her? What does she like? Toys, going outside, her dinner, attention? Find out what floats her boat. Often a little deprivation helps increase the value of things, treats included. Use a higher value treat with more difficult tasks. Start out with a lower value treat and then for a more difficult thing, such as coming when called or lying down on cue, use a higher value treat. Don't start with the high end and go down in the same block of time. If she gets excited to go outside for a walk, you can both go near the door, but let your SO be the one to open the door AFTER Tosca performs some little trick or sits and waits for her release word. Let your SO be the one to get her toy which is kept put away most of the time and he can ask for a sit or down or come...whatever.

All kinds of things can be reinforcers. They vary depending on the circumstance and what the dog might want at any given time. It's not all about treats. Think of what your dog wants at the time and control the access to it.

 

[ToscasMom]

Ok thanks Dobe. I knew I could count on you. I will definitely do the treat at the door suggestion. She IS treat motivated but it just may be that the treat isn't valued at much, you are right. I think it's time to break out some raw hot dog bits. As high value goes, Tosca sees hot dog as the Max. I used them in the past when she was resistant or stubborn.

He does feed her on occasion, I knew enough that this was a good thing to do for trust, but I always prepare her dish. Do you think that makes a difference? It's amazing how you can screw up by over looking little details, isn't it?

Toys won't work because she free grabs them from her box. She puts them away now too. lol. But they are almost always available to her. I use them for attention but they have never been put away exactly. She frequently sleeps with some of them.

But hot dogs...that's another story.

 

[Xerxes]

Good advice there.

Not to jump on the bandwagon, but the only thing my boy will do for anyone else is "sit."

 

[Lilavati]

Thanks folks, I've had him give her treats before, but I'll try a more regimented approach. I think they need some quality time . . . and I think I need him to set aside some time to just play with her, so that she's not so excited when he's around.

 

[Herschel]

Some dogs can listen to other people just as well as their owners, others only obey one person.

Herschel is great at listening to different people. During agility, he has a different style for me, my girlfriend, and our instructor. He can easily run through a course with any of us and not bat an eye.

Nala, on the other hand, listens mainly to me. She will "come" to my girlfriend when called, but she will only do her tricks for me.

Doberluv gave you some great advice and it should help. Dogs like routines, so if it becomes more common for her to take commands from different people I'm sure that will get her to be more comfortable with your SO, etc.

Otherwise, you could always try Richlings methods with Purdue.

 

[ToscasMom]

Dober, would you consider it a good idea if she spent a few nights at his place without me?

 

[Doberluv]

Toscasmom....I don't think it would make a huge difference if he prepares the food or not, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. Mainly, I think showing her that food only comes if she complies with a trick or two first is the main thing. If she really, really is "into" her toys, I'd take a few hours during the day to withold access to them. Put them in drawers or someplace away and use them to your advantage whereby your SO becomes this wonderful guy who is in charge of the toys. When she comes when called, she gets a toy from him and some playtime. Later, once she's getting onto this and has been reinforced enough for complying with his requests, is seeing him as someone needed to get the things she likes, I'm sure the toys could be replaced in the toy box again. If she looks to you when your SO is trying to get her to do something....as if she will only do something if you ask, ignore her. Let him try, except for a little bit at first to get her going, as in the example of getting her to sit for a treat or something. Once she does something for him a few times, back off and try not to help so that she doesn't tie the being obedient to him with your presence.

If you think she wouldn't get overly stressed being at his house without you once in a while, that could be a good thing. You could start out with just a short visit where you leave and come back in 20 minutes and gradually increase the time away from her. But dogs are pretty much designed to spend most of their time and in fact, revolve most of their life around their owners and you don't want to create too much insecurity or upset of her routine. But at the same time, it would be nice that she feels secure with him so that if you had to leave her while you were away for some time, she'd be OK with it. That goes for other places and people too. Lyric is not very well prepared for long stretches without me. He's quite the one "woman" dog or one family...he is fine being left with the other dogs and my son or my daughter when I am at her place. But I've never left him at a boarding place...only the vet hospital for a few days when he was sick. He was not too happy about that but nothing too serious. I think before I'd try leaving her with him alone, I'd work on some of those other things to kind of set her up to feeling like he too is her caretaker. Gradual is always the best.

 

[ToscasMom]

Ok I will do what you suggest on the commands. Get it started, back off.

I won't do the overnight. You are right. I didn't think about potential stress for her, figuring she's fairly comfortable around him. Bad idea, at least for now.

 

[Doberluv]

She can find out that he's a barrel of fun and laughs if he makes things like a game and is a fun kind of guy. LOL. So, instead of him thinking he has to "command" her to sit or come, tell him to pretend like it's a game. Outside, he could be playing with her and run the other way, squeeking a toy or tossing something for her and incorporate the recall into that. He can say in a friendly voice, "sit." And then right away do something she loves to do....that sort of thing. Most of what I do when I practice with Lyric is more like play than anything too serious. Dogs are just so juvenile and they seem to really respond well to playfulness rather than the old, serious, barking out of commands. JMO.

 

[ToscasMom]

No i don't want you to think he tried to command her forcefully. I think the problem is just the opposite.She sees him as a good romp and play but she just doesn't seem him as someone she has to listen to. Hard to explain. I mean he plays with her a lot, and as I think about it, she gets to play pretty much any way SHE wants. So if anything, he may need to be a little less like her squeak toys are to her. lol.

Edit. this is a really easy going guy. He wouldn't have lasted with the likes of me if he weren't lol. I don't take instruction well either. Hahaha

 

[Doberluv]

No, I didn't mean to imply that he was un-fun. Fun is good but she still has to do something he likes in order to get what she likes. LOL. It sounds like you've got a gem of a man there.

 

[ToscasMom]

ROFL Dober, any man who puts up with me deserves the Purple Heart.