Tucker bit my dad

Why is that bananas? The dog doesn't like to be picked up in certain situations, so people are suggesting other ways to get the behavior the owners want (getting off the furniture, or in the crate) without having to pick him up. My old Bedlington didn't like giving up things he found in the trash. He would bite if we tried to take something from him. So we didn't. We traded. Nobody was ever bit again, and he never had something we couldn't get from him. In the ideal world, we probably would have trained a different behavior, desensitized, and fixed the underlying issue (or just gotten smarter about not leaving the trash out), but we live in a non-ideal world. We found a solution that was easy for the family to follow and kept everyone safe.

Do I think there are underlying issues with Tucker that should ideally be dealt with? Absolutely, and I don't think his owner is denying it either. She has been very upfront that things don't always get done in an ideal manner with his training and day to day care. There are a lot of ways that this situation can be dealt with; what matters most is finding one that the people who handle him can and will follow that will keep everyone safe. Many roads to Rome, and all that.

Oh, I didn't think anyone was squabbling! Just a passionate discussion on different philosophies.

Squabbling was the only word I could come up with- something between discussing and arguing/fighting.

Thank you all for the advice, it's a lot to think about. I just want to repeat that he has no issues being picked up when he's not doing anything of importance. He doesn't move away, doesn't wiggle to get down, he usually looks at my face, sniffs it (the dog likes eyeballs), then just chills. So a lot of the ideas of getting him okay with being picked up probably won't help, he's already okay with it. It's less of a being picked up problem and more of a being physically stopped from doing what he wants problem. If we were to desensitize him it would have to involve doing it WHILE he was in the middle of doing something "bad" or when he is on the couch. It's closer to resource guarding than anything. So where would one start with that? Using the couch as an example. Would I have dad pet him and treat him as a starting place? Then put hands around rib cage, treat. Then later actually lift from laying to standing and treat? Until he can move him to the ground and treat?

I guess when I really think about it using commands might be more practical. That way they wouldn't have to actually do the training, they'd just have to apply it and reward for following the commands.


And thank you Lizzybeth, I'll teach him to get off with a down command as that's what they'd like to use.

I tried to do this a while ago, in the winter actually, just to get him to listen to them for come and other basic commands because they never practice it (successfully anyways, they'll say come but never reward or try really hard to actually make him come) so he rarely listens to them. The cats found the container and threw it on the floor and all three of them feasted. So now there is a plastic bag placed in a heavy glass bowl, with a mixture of treats i it. But the bag doesn't keep the treats very well, they're pretty dry and low value to him as a result. But still better than nothing as a reward. I wanted them to carry natural balance roll treats (I cut it up) because those are higher value. Maybe if I put tupperware in the glass bowl the cats won't be able to pick it up and the soft treats (I have zukes that he LOVES fresh but barely noticed once it gets all dried up) will keep better than in the bag.

What about the freeze dried liver treats? Or freeze dried chicken or beef. Most dogs like it pretty well and it's ok to keep at room temperament.

I disagree. If you create/strengthen a positive emotional reaction to being picked up when he's not doing anything he'll have less of a problem with it when he is doing something else.

I also find that when my dog gets grouchy coming back at her with force simply compounds on the situation and gets me no where. Be sweet as sugar, laugh a bit, and just wait the dog out while asking for an incompatible behaviour is what I would recommend. Teach "touch" and "go to bed" and make them super fun.

I wonder if the eye-sniffing is indicative of stress related to being picked up? Hard to say without seeing him obviously. Just know that sniffing can be a displacement behaviour for dogs.

That's a good idea, I've had those before. he wasn't a huge fan of the chicken but liked buffalo ones I bought. But I bet if I could find liver it would be a big hit. Or I'd buy two types and have a mix.

You could also try puffed lamb lung. It keeps at room temp, it's dry, you can break it into any size you like, and my dog loved it.

Where would one buy that? Now that I think of it, his most favorite treats ever in the history of his life were some free Stella and Chewy samples we got back last summer before I started school. I used them to put him back into his crate after I'd take him out in the middle of the night. He was wild about them. I wonder if they sell smaller sized bags of that food that I could use as treats.

Here they just sell it in pet shops... I bought mine in a Tisol, which is a pet food store (no live animals, range of high quality foods), but I don't know if they have Tisols in the states.

Oh, I am totally 100% positive trainer. I work with my dog based on a relationship, not that I "own" him or him his "boss" or anything. So I hope my post didn't come across like that.

I just meant for me personally I am not sure how I'd handle if I was scared that my own dog was going to bite me or growl over everything all the time.

I wasn't referring to you at all.

Honestly, I use correction and negative markers in my training when I feel need be but I don't use a brute force, me:master you:slave methodology. It's horribly ignorant, ancient in theory and there is a reason we as a people have evolved in our animal dealing methods. Animals work better if we work with them, not if we beat them into position.

If my dog didn't like to be picked up I would check it medically, then deal with the behavior. I would not force the dog to allow me to pick them up. I work with too many dogs, hands on, with behavioral issues to be that stupid.

This is an awesome idea. Touch is an awesome way to get them to change gears mentally and diffuse tension. For example, there's a bit of tension in my household right now between grumpy old man Pip & teenage Squash, and I find that if Pip is getting a bit tense or anxious a quick "touch" or two totally changes his mood and attention in an instant.

Pip really, really loves touch though, for some reason. YMMV.

I totally agree.

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I really have to agree with this point. Neither of my largeish dogs (lab and pit mix) are especially pleased about being picked up, having their nails ground, getting a bath, etc. When Jack was going through physical therapy after his elbow surgery he had to have certain therapies and at home exercises done that required him being forced to stay on his side and still for several minutes at a time. When he had his super-bacteria ear infection he had to endure twice daily *painful* ear cleanings. All of these things and neither has even growled at us. We try to make these experiences as pleasant as possible, but at the end of the day we need to be able to do what we have to do without our safety being threatened. I can't imagine just never bathing the dogs because they don't like it and might growl or bite.

I can only assume you were referring to me then. I find it laughable you're comparing me to a caveman if that's the case :rofl1: You've seen my dogs pictures here & on PBC, they aren't poor little abused dogs that I treat like slaves LOL. I treat them like DOGS. They respect me, I respect them. Never did I state I use "brute force" with them. They work for most everything they get, and they get plenty in return; food, water, toys, play time, training time, etc. etc.

I think they lead pretty good lives in comparison to some other dogs, but that's just me

I agree a little, kinda, but at the same time this sort of tolerance doesn't just come around nilly willy. It takes training, desensitization, and bonding. What I was suggesting was just management mode, I think I put that in my post.

But I'll be honest, Duncan is 90 lbs and I have tried to pick him up, and I have tried to force him into his crate, or into the bathtub. I'm not physically capable of it. Should the OP be able to pick up her dog? Sure, and that is going to take training. But if there isn't time/money for training then I don't see anything wrong with going into management mode. I mean if it comes down to picking up the dog and getting bit again, or luring it into his crate, I know which I would prefer. And even if the dog stops biting or growling, if he still is just barely tolerating being picked up and doesn't seem to enjoy it, then why push it? If you can get the same results without stressing your dog, wouldn't you?

Being able to take a bone away from a dog, or being able to tug on his tail, or clip his nails doesn't come naturally to a lot of human/dog relationships. I mean if it did, why would anyone train drop it? Or desensitize dogs to having their paws handled?

So in this case the dog already has an issue with being picked up, so I suggested alternatives to manage the behavior, not to train it out, but to prevent it from escalating. I think it was Aleron and Lizzybeth who posted training exercises.

Agreed. I was brushing Cameron's tail one day and she curled her lip and growled at me. I distracted her with treats and then went searchin'. Huge, nasty sore on her tail. I don't expect my dogs to tolerate anything or everything, without training, desensitization, and bonding. I can see why Cam growled at me and it doesn't make me afraid of her. She told me to back off because she was in pain, that's fine. If she told me to back off because she was scared, I would do desensitization, if she told me to back off because she was guarding, I would do training. And if I didn't have time for training, or the money for a behaviorist, I would go into management mode, because it's better than either of us getting hurt.

Nicely said!

Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

If you can't find them, send me your mailing address and I will buy some for you at work on Friday and mail them to you, if you promise to work with them.

As for the whole "I should be able to do xyz to my dog because he's a dog and I'm a human", well I think it should be pretty obvious which side I fall on, based on the fact that I own FRODO.

Though apparently I should just march him down to the vet and have him PTS because he has growled at me and has nipped a friend when *I* let the situation get out of control.