Tucker bit my dad

[sillysally]

As for the whole "I should be able to do xyz to my dog because he's a dog and I'm a human", well I think it should be pretty obvious which side I fall on, based on the fact that I own FRODO.

Though apparently I should just march him down to the vet and have him PTS because he has growled at me and has nipped a friend when *I* let the situation get out of control.

I think everyone just has different tolerance levels for certain behaviors. I have very, very little tolerance for HA. If one of my dogs bit someone there would have to be some *very* extenuating circumstances for euthanasia not to be considered and at the very least a behaviorist would be involved. If others think that is ridiculous that's fine, but having a HA dog is a serious issue for me.

 

[PWCorgi]

I think everyone just has different tolerance levels for certain behaviors. I have very, very little tolerance for HA. If one of my dogs bit someone there would have to be some *very* extenuating circumstances for euthanasia not to be considered and at the very least a behaviorist would be involved. If others think that is ridiculous that's fine, but having a HA dog is a serious issue for me.

If an owner is not willing to work with the dog, then I am all for euthanasia.
I just can't imagine not doing EVERYTHING in my power before killing a dog that I love. I realize that a lot of people would have had Frodo killed by now, but with a lot of hard work he is turning into an amazing dog, and it would have been a shame for him to have not been given that chance.

 

[sillysally]

It's not really about not wanting to work with the dog, it's all the other issues involved. I have large breed dogs which would be a huge liability if they were human biters. I also own two breeds where HA is a very big deal. This is particularly the case with bully breeds. A corgi causes a bite that requires a few stitches and the AC is notified, the owner of the dog pays for the medical attention, but at the end of the day it's usually not a federal issue. A dog that looks like it maybe might be a "pit bull" causes the same bite and at the least it usually makes the paper, likely the radio or TV news, and the next thing you know the city is considering a ban. The stakes are a lot higher.

I love my dogs and would so just about anything for them. However, they are large(ish), strong, we live in town, and are planning to have kids in the near future. HA is just a very serious matter.

 

[PWCorgi]

I don't dispute that it is serious. I'm just saying I wouldn't be willing to NOT work with it, or at least try. And I think human biters of any breed are a huge issue. Frodo is 30 pounds. There are 30 pound pitties.

I have worked on bully breed aggression cases. I have been on cases where euthing was recommended as well. But for the people that were willing to work with it, we set up backup plans for everything we could think of and we have helped dogs to become great members of society.

 

[SpringerLover]

Anyone who has met or lived with Buzz would say he's a very, very stable dog. I've been bit my by own dog when I pushed him too far. He drew blood, I was stupid.

Things have definitely changed since then. I can't say I live in fear of him doing anything more than stealing my food or bed!

 

[sillysally]

I don't dispute that it is serious. I'm just saying I wouldn't be willing to NOT work with it, or at least try. And I think human biters of any breed are a huge issue. Frodo is 30 pounds. There are 30 pound pitties.

I have worked on bully breed aggression cases. I have been on cases where euthing was recommended as well. But for the people that were willing to work with it, we set up backup plans for everything we could think of and we have helped dogs to become great members of society.

I have no doubt that it can be worked on. However, I personally have some ethical issues with keeping a known human aggressive APBT. Incidents involving "bully breeds" take on a life of their own in a way that happens in few other breeds.

 

[kady05]

I have no doubt that it can be worked on. However, I personally have some ethical issues with keeping a known human aggressive APBT. Incidents involving "bully breeds" take on a life of their own in a way that happens in few other breeds.

Same here. HA Pit Bull type dogs should be euthanized. We don't need more news stories about vicious Pit Bulls. And if more rescues/shelters would STEP UP and euthanize those "iffy" dogs instead of having the "save them all!" mentality, Pit Bulls wouldn't be in near the mess they're in now.

There are WAY too many nice, 100% stable would never even think of biting Pit Bulls dying in shelters everyday than to put a ton of time and effort into one that DOES bite. I pretty much feel the same way about any breed of dog, just have no tolerance for a dog that bites people. JMO.

 

[Maxy24]

The sort of thing I worry about is like, well yesterday my brother's girlfriend Heather came over. She comes over a lot, like four times a week, so she doesn't exactly follow normal guest etiquette and we don't treat her like a normal guest. We had some chips and dip in the living room and Tucker jumped onto the couch next to her and she immediately shoved him off because she was eating. Now, he didn't do anything when she did this, but he could have. It's something like that I want him to be able to deal with without getting growly or snapping (and I feel like if dad did the same thing he would have growled at him). Because things like that are going to happen sometimes when it doesn't cross someones mind that he might become aggressive. Maybe just by drastically cutting down the number of times we move him he'll be less annoyed by it the few times we do. After she shoved him off I started petting him for not trying to eat her and she rolled her eyes and said "C'mon Erin, he can be on the floor for 5 minutes, he'll live" and I sort of wanted to punch her in the face. She doesn't know he's been growling, I don't really want to hear her opinions on the matter. She always has opinions and their rarely educated ones.


I bought a container for treats in the living room and put the zukes in it. The cats knocked it down last night, somehow unscrewed the top, and ate most of them. I had a brick in front of it so I thought they couldn't get it off. Very stupid assumption. Hopefully today or tomorrow someone will take me to the pet store to buy some of the Stella and Chewy's if they have it.


I appreciate everyone's advice, Hopefully I can get everyone to start using their words instead of their hands and to think before they act (this is always mom's defense, she/they didn't have time to think about it, she/they just reacted).

 

[Taqroy]

I appreciate everyone's advice, Hopefully I can get everyone to start using their words instead of their hands and to think before they act (this is always mom's defense, she/they didn't have time to think about it, she/they just reacted).

I can sort of understand this - I put my hands in the middle of a dog fight a couple weeks ago because I reacted instead of thinking about it (and I got bit of course lol). Maybe you could set up a step by step procedure for them to follow? 1) Tucker is doing something bad. 2) Take a deep breath! 3) WWED? (What would Erin do?) Obviously something better than that. LOL. But if they're even remotely good at following step by step instructions it could help.

I sort of want to punch your brother's gf in the face too...she doesn't sound very helpful.

 

[Chewbecca]

Same here. HA Pit Bull type dogs should be euthanized. We don't need more news stories about vicious Pit Bulls. And if more rescues/shelters would STEP UP and euthanize those "iffy" dogs instead of having the "save them all!" mentality, Pit Bulls wouldn't be in near the mess they're in now.

There are WAY too many nice, 100% stable would never even think of biting Pit Bulls dying in shelters everyday than to put a ton of time and effort into one that DOES bite. I pretty much feel the same way about any breed of dog, just have no tolerance for a dog that bites people. JMO.

Here's what I think about this:

If backyard breeders would quit willy-nilly breeding every "pretty" pit bull without much regard to stable dogs, then the problem the rescues and shelters are dealing with would practically be non-existent. I mean let's put the blame where the blame TRULY belongs.

Maybe I'm out of the rescue loop here, but most rescues and shelters are having a hard enough time finding space to save the stable ones, even, yet alone putting a crap-ton of effort into HA pit bulls.
I haven't much heard of this problem?

I mean, if you all want to get technical about it: if people would take responsibility for their pit bulls, speuter them, or only breed the ones who have titled and are proven (and by that I mean, temp-tested as well) breed-worthy, then the rescues and shelters would have less of a mess to clean up and this would lessen the chances of HA pit bulls being adopted out to homes.

Rescues and shelters aren't breeding and creating HA pit bulls. They're mostly working with very, very limited resources to try and adopt out STABLE pit bulls to good homes.

But if rescues are adopting out HA pit bulls, as I said, this is news to me. I haven't heard of this.

 

[Beanie]

Maybe I'm out of the rescue loop here, but most rescues and shelters are having a hard enough time finding space to save the stable ones, even, yet alone putting a crap-ton of effort into HA pit bulls.
I haven't much heard of this problem?

I think it's more... why should an individual waste time rehabilitating a HA pit bull when there are so many nice ones in rescue? One should put his aggressive pit to sleep and go get himself a non-aggressive one from the shelter instead.

 

[kady05]

Here's what I think about this:

If backyard breeders would quit willy-nilly breeding every "pretty" pit bull without much regard to stable dogs, then the problem the rescues and shelters are dealing with would practically be non-existent. I mean let's put the blame where the blame TRULY belongs.

Maybe I'm out of the rescue loop here, but most rescues and shelters are having a hard enough time finding space to save the stable ones, even, yet alone putting a crap-ton of effort into HA pit bulls.
I haven't much heard of this problem?

I mean, if you all want to get technical about it: if people would take responsibility for their pit bulls, speuter them, or only breed the ones who have titled and are proven (and by that I mean, temp-tested as well) breed-worthy, then the rescues and shelters would have less of a mess to clean up and this would lessen the chances of HA pit bulls being adopted out to homes.

Rescues and shelters aren't breeding and creating HA pit bulls. They're mostly working with very, very limited resources to try and adopt out STABLE pit bulls to good homes.

But if rescues are adopting out HA pit bulls, as I said, this is news to me. I haven't heard of this.

Well of course if the BYB's would stop breeding crappy dogs, and people would spay/neuter, then yes, problem solved. If only it were that easy! Yesterday I was at a low cost clinic and a guy walked in with a litter of Pit Bull pups. I give him props for getting their first shots done, BUT while he was there, a lady walked in with her (unspayed) blue (cue "OMG IT'S BLUE!") female and he pulled her aside and started talking to her about breeding her to his male.
While I'd love to be positive and think that BYB's and indiscriminate breeding would stop one day, I'm not holding my breath.

We have shelters around here that have adopted out dogs that have bitten (and I'm not just referring to Pit Bulls here). We have shelters here that "warehouse" dogs in 3x3 kennels for years at a time because they can't grow a pair and euthanize them instead of letting them literally go crazy, and yet they still think of it as "rescue". It's frustrating, to say the least.

 

[Aleron]

Rescues and shelters aren't breeding and creating HA pit bulls. They're mostly working with very, very limited resources to try and adopt out STABLE pit bulls to good homes.

But if rescues are adopting out HA pit bulls, as I said, this is news to me. I haven't heard of this.

Around here, if a HA APBT gets adopted out of a shelter, the shelter probably didn't know about the dogs issues. We have BSL and APBTs can sit in our county pound for a long time before a qualified adopter comes along. They don't even bother housing the iffy ones past the mandatory hold period. None of our private shelters/rescues are insured to have or adopt out APBTs, although most do and call the dogs something else. They still have lots and lots of APBTs at any given time (the ones who even take them that is). APBTs are probably one of the most popular and common breeds in my area, which sort of proves that BSL doesn't make a difference in people keeping them. I really don't think shelters/rescues are the problem with the breed. Irresponsible owners are the problem with the breed and checking the facts on the fatal dog bites tends to prove that. Dogs running loose, living in kennels/on tie outs/in backyards with no socialization or training, being trusted with strange children unattended. The fatal dog bite stories all tend to be similar regardless of breed - irresponsible owners making poor choices involving their dogs.

 

[sassafras]

After she shoved him off I started petting him for not trying to eat her and she rolled her eyes and said "C'mon Erin, he can be on the floor for 5 minutes, he'll live" and I sort of wanted to punch her in the face.

Ugh, way to miss the point. I'd have wanted to punch her, too.

 

[PWCorgi]

I ABSOLUTELY think that HA pits in rescue should be PTS. But a lot of times people get puppies that end up reactive/aggressive, it's easy to say have it put to sleep when it's not a dog you've already grown to love.

 

[Greenmagick]

The sort of thing I worry about is like, well yesterday my brother's girlfriend Heather came over. She comes over a lot, like four times a week, so she doesn't exactly follow normal guest etiquette and we don't treat her like a normal guest. We had some chips and dip in the living room and Tucker jumped onto the couch next to her and she immediately shoved him off because she was eating. Now, he didn't do anything when she did this, but he could have. It's something like that I want him to be able to deal with without getting growly or snapping (and I feel like if dad did the same thing he would have growled at him). Because things like that are going to happen sometimes when it doesn't cross someones mind that he might become aggressive.

This is a good example of where management comes in. He needs to not be allowed on the couch if he is growling or worse when you try to move him. The ONLY time, if ever, he should be allowed up is when actively working on getting him to respond to "off".

 

[kady05]

I ABSOLUTELY think that HA pits in rescue should be PTS. But a lot of times people get puppies that end up reactive/aggressive, it's easy to say have it put to sleep when it's not a dog you've already grown to love.

I suppose for some it would be hard.. but I can tell your right now that if ANY of my dogs (whom I've all had since they were pups) bit me (unless there was some insanely extenuating circumstance), they wouldn't be here on Earth anymore.

 

[adojrts]

This is a good example of where management comes in. He needs to not be allowed on the couch if he is growling or worse when you try to move him. The ONLY time, if ever, he should be allowed up is when actively working on getting him to respond to "off".

2nd this ^^^^

 

[elegy]

I suppose for some it would be hard.. but I can tell your right now that if ANY of my dogs (whom I've all had since they were pups) bit me (unless there was some insanely extenuating circumstance), they wouldn't be here on Earth anymore.

I think that's a lot easier to say when you're not looking your own beloved dog in the face and saying "sorry, buddy. I have to kill you now."

It's really easy to stand on this pedestal when you've never been in that situation.

 

[lizzybeth727]

This is a good example of where management comes in. He needs to not be allowed on the couch if he is growling or worse when you try to move him. The ONLY time, if ever, he should be allowed up is when actively working on getting him to respond to "off".

^^^3rd this.

I'm also WAY more overprotective of my dog when guests are over, because they simply can't know all the rules and issues you're working on. I learned this early-on with Luna when my good friend would come over and do Cesar Milan crap on her when she "misbehaved." I tried convincing my friend that what she was doing was not acceptable for my dog, but my friend would react before thinking and do it anyway. So I learned to keep Luna tethered with me at all times when the friend was over, which prevented both Luna and my friend from getting annoyed with each other.