So we have had many of threads about the unethical practices of BYB's and purposely breeding mixed breeds. How do you all feel about breeding golden/lab crosses to help assist people? Is that un-ethical or acceptable because they are breeding the two breeds together for a "purpose"? I am not sure why they feel the need to cross the two together but I am sure they are all health checked for any genetic issues ,hips etc. I also know that these dogs are S/N before they go to their new homes to service there new owners. Opinions? Here is the link http://www.caninecompanions.org/national/breeding.html
Breeding Goldens to labs for Canine companion services....
- Thread starter Red_ACD_for_me
- Start date
Ahhh... I was wondering when someone would come across this! As a past president of a CCI chapter, I was wondering when someone would question this. They've been doing this for many years. It has been questioned by many and a good debate. I'm going to wait until more have a chance to respond before adding my 2 cents worth. lol
I don't think it matters when you're talking about a service dog. For these dogs, structural soundness and a bombproof temperament are more important than their breed or mix.
I would be hesitant to say that a Lab/Golden mix from a shelter would be the same as a Lab/Golden mix from CCI or similar orgs. One was probably bred for the pet market, while one was bred for the soundness and temperament traits that assistance dogs should have. "Just get a dog from a shelter/rescue" isn't a valid suggestion for people who need an assistance/service dog.
I would be hesitant to say that a Lab/Golden mix from a shelter would be the same as a Lab/Golden mix from CCI or similar orgs. One was probably bred for the pet market, while one was bred for the soundness and temperament traits that assistance dogs should have. "Just get a dog from a shelter/rescue" isn't a valid suggestion for people who need an assistance/service dog.
I don't think its unethical, since all the dogs are obviously bred for a purpose and must be outstanding in temperament and ability to be service dogs.
But I can't help but wonder: what in the world could possibly be gained by this cross? How is it any better than breeding a lab to a lab, or a golden to a golden? I'm completely perplexed.
But I can't help but wonder: what in the world could possibly be gained by this cross? How is it any better than breeding a lab to a lab, or a golden to a golden? I'm completely perplexed.
Gemp, could it be that they only do the cross based on the compatibility of temperaments, structure and health of the parents? If you have a Golden bitch and a Lab stud, and a Golden stud, and the Labrador stud is stronger where the bitch is weak (and vice versa) then why breed to the Golden stud? Just for the sake of breeding a purebred?
I don't think its unethical, since all the dogs are obviously bred for a purpose and must be outstanding in temperament and ability to be service dogs.
But I can't help but wonder: what in the world could possibly be gained by this cross? How is it any better than breeding a lab to a lab, or a golden to a golden? I'm completely perplexed.
But I can't help but wonder: what in the world could possibly be gained by this cross? How is it any better than breeding a lab to a lab, or a golden to a golden? I'm completely perplexed.
That's what I was wondering about. What is the drop-out rate for these dogs?
The whole breeding for service dogs thing kind of confuses me. Since all the dogs going out to work are neutered, then the dogs who are truly best at the job will never get the opportunity to reproduce. Even if you have a breeding that works out great - say, 6 out of 9 puppies turn out to be stellar service dogs - by the time the dogs are old enough for that to be evaluated, than the parents are probably too old to breed again. So it just seems to me it is all a crapshoot.
The whole breeding for service dogs thing kind of confuses me. Since all the dogs going out to work are neutered, then the dogs who are truly best at the job will never get the opportunity to reproduce. Even if you have a breeding that works out great - say, 6 out of 9 puppies turn out to be stellar service dogs - by the time the dogs are old enough for that to be evaluated, than the parents are probably too old to breed again. So it just seems to me it is all a crapshoot.
I don't really see whats to be gained personally. They're probably looking for the Golden's temperament with the lab's coat...
That said, if they think there is a good reason to do the mix, they should. The working ability of the dog, to do its job should come before breeds in some cases. Lets not forget the other posts on the danger of a closed gene pool, never mind the very small pool of service dogs.
The rather subtle differences between a lab and golden, and none are being bred to a show standard or duck dog standard at this point,so whats the harm in mixing them?
That said, if they think there is a good reason to do the mix, they should. The working ability of the dog, to do its job should come before breeds in some cases. Lets not forget the other posts on the danger of a closed gene pool, never mind the very small pool of service dogs.
The rather subtle differences between a lab and golden, and none are being bred to a show standard or duck dog standard at this point,so whats the harm in mixing them?
MIRA in QC.. their assistance dogs are labernese, and they've been doing it for ages too. http://www.mira.ca/contenta/nc1-3a.html
To the MIRA site... BYBs in good citizen's clothing.
I know the dropout rate is a LOT in many guide dog/service dog training programs. I, personally, believe it's unethical to breed more. I understand they want bombproof temperaments and good coats, but I know they can get that from rescues or good breeders. I know if they have two absolutely stellar dogs whose relatives have proven to have equally amiable temperaments, there is a definite reward in breeding them.. but what about all the puppies who will probably go to pet homes, and b/c of that dogs from shelters wont get homes?
I've met PLENTY of shelter dogs with awesome temperaments. I don't know precisely what they're looking for, besides ability and drive to work, loving, calm temperaments, and no skittishness... but there are shelter dogs who could fit the criteria. Asking shelters and rescues to be on the lookout is a surefire way to get good dogs. Healthwise.. you don't really know.
What I'm trying to say is if they can tell which puppies they have bred and older dogs they have bred have good temperaments, then they can certainly tell the same things about a shelter dog.
I don't approve of breeding the Goldens to the Labs under ANY circumstances. There's a huge difference in conformation, and though the breeds are similiar, if they are good breed representatives, they should have different temperaments as well. If they are not health testing.. BOO to them. BYBs in good citizens clothing.
I know the dropout rate is a LOT in many guide dog/service dog training programs. I, personally, believe it's unethical to breed more. I understand they want bombproof temperaments and good coats, but I know they can get that from rescues or good breeders. I know if they have two absolutely stellar dogs whose relatives have proven to have equally amiable temperaments, there is a definite reward in breeding them.. but what about all the puppies who will probably go to pet homes, and b/c of that dogs from shelters wont get homes?
I've met PLENTY of shelter dogs with awesome temperaments. I don't know precisely what they're looking for, besides ability and drive to work, loving, calm temperaments, and no skittishness... but there are shelter dogs who could fit the criteria. Asking shelters and rescues to be on the lookout is a surefire way to get good dogs. Healthwise.. you don't really know.
What I'm trying to say is if they can tell which puppies they have bred and older dogs they have bred have good temperaments, then they can certainly tell the same things about a shelter dog.
I don't approve of breeding the Goldens to the Labs under ANY circumstances. There's a huge difference in conformation, and though the breeds are similiar, if they are good breed representatives, they should have different temperaments as well. If they are not health testing.. BOO to them. BYBs in good citizens clothing.
I am not familar with the whys.... but it must work better or they probably wouldn't be doing it. Maybe the drop out rate is far less with a lab/golden cross... I mean these people are not byb's they have a goal for their puppies and a very important one at that.
Although I don't agree with breeding crosses simply for profit or companionship... those "mixes" MIGHT do their job better than their "purebred" counterparts. And I mean as a whole, not looking at individual dogs.
Sometimes I think some people tend to go overboard about "breeding".
(Not directed an anyone here) Some would think it would be fine to breed a dog with a title to another dog with a title, as long as health testing was done. But my gosh, breed a real working dog, to another working dog, even when health tests were done and you would be labeled as a byb.
As for getting a shelter dog, future service pups usually start training/socialization at an early age usually in a foster setting... Most of those type mixes or purebreds wouldn't reach the shelter until their owners couldn't handle them anymore...with possibly many bad habits/fears already in place.
Now I don't know, just trying to give something else to think about.
Although I don't agree with breeding crosses simply for profit or companionship... those "mixes" MIGHT do their job better than their "purebred" counterparts. And I mean as a whole, not looking at individual dogs.
Sometimes I think some people tend to go overboard about "breeding".
(Not directed an anyone here) Some would think it would be fine to breed a dog with a title to another dog with a title, as long as health testing was done. But my gosh, breed a real working dog, to another working dog, even when health tests were done and you would be labeled as a byb.
As for getting a shelter dog, future service pups usually start training/socialization at an early age usually in a foster setting... Most of those type mixes or purebreds wouldn't reach the shelter until their owners couldn't handle them anymore...with possibly many bad habits/fears already in place.
Now I don't know, just trying to give something else to think about.
A local rescue got a litter of Labernese rolleyes: ) puppies from a shelter near Montreal. 11 of them, 6 weeks old. They were bred to be service dogs, but the owner decided she was sick of dealing with the puppies. No idea of it is any connection.
I'm certainly no show-dog person; I'd much rather see real working dogs being bred than strictly conformation dogs. But my point is - are the dogs being bred actually working dogs? All of their working dogs are neutered. I don't know what "solution" is out there - I also don't agree with having intact service dogs out there!
rolleyes: ) puppies from a shelter near Montreal. 11 of them, 6 weeks old. They were bred to be service dogs, but the owner decided she was sick of dealing with the puppies. No idea of it is any connection.I'm certainly no show-dog person; I'd much rather see real working dogs being bred than strictly conformation dogs. But my point is - are the dogs being bred actually working dogs? All of their working dogs are neutered. I don't know what "solution" is out there - I also don't agree with having intact service dogs out there!