Where's The Abuse?

[PoodleMommy]

you didnt imply i did that... you actually said i did.

 

[Whisper]

About dogs in public places (i.e. other than pet stores). . .
I have a service dog for several disabilities and when I get an access challenge almost every time they mention people who just like to bring in their dogs. I've had to fight to get my service dog inside a store because of someone else's pets being there before. My dog is not a pet in the law's eyes. I have a right to bring her in "no pets allowed" places, but because of people can't bear to leave their babies home people with service dogs have had to fight tooth and nail, even in court and get punished for others' whims. I also have a small dog and I love having her with me, but NO, I do not bring her in the mall or random stores. She's not a service dog and has no place in bookstores or other places where I NEED my SD, whether I stuff her in a carrier or not.

I appreciate and respect anyone willing to engage in any discussion and stand up firmly for that in which they believe in in a mature manner; which is surely what many of us have done. We don't all have to fall down at our opponent's feet and praise victory.. there is no right or wrong (unless there is abuse).

Agreed.

 

[Juicy]

Hopefully I'm not comparing apples to oranges but....

Because IRRESPONSIBLE people own pit bulls, they're banned in certain places. Its not fair for RESPONSIBLE owners that their breed is banned for others mistakes. Its sad that a few bad apples ruin it for everyone, but doesn't mean its fair to group people who take their dogs in public places irresponsible like the ones that allow their dogs to act unruly. We don't group pit bull owners for owning pit bulls, because some are irresponsible. You don't NEED a pit bull, but there's no harm in owning one. We don't NEED to take our dogs everywhere or dress them up, but there's no harm in doing so.

 

[Brattina88]

Again...ONE incident is all it takes to ruin things for EVERYONE. With the amount of stupid people that own dogs it's a mere matter of time.

Our Home Depot used to allow dogs...until an idiot with a dog in a cart bit some child in the store...no dogs anymore.

If you are SHOPPING...you cannot watch your dog 100% of the time...and IMO that is setting someone's dog up to fail. It's also disrepectful to those with fears or allergies that are not expecting to find a dog in a store intended for human use.

I prefer to not have dogs in stores...because I have seen TOO many people engrossed in shopping not even notice that child approaching their Yorkie's face hanging out of their bag...

I've seen that happen at a Pet Store Just saying . . .

I think you should ask if it's allowed, then respect the store owner's rules. I still don't see a problem taking a dog in a carrier or on a lead where you have permission to.

Now, if you're ignoring rules, then yeah, there'd be a problem.

:hail:

About dogs in public places (i.e. other than pet stores). . .
I have a service dog for several disabilities and when I get an access challenge almost every time they mention people who just like to bring in their dogs. I've had to fight to get my service dog inside a store because of someone else's pets being there before. My dog is not a pet in the law's eyes. I have a right to bring her in "no pets allowed" places, but because of people can't bear to leave their babies home people with service dogs have had to fight tooth and nail, even in court and get punished for others' whims. I also have a small dog and I love having her with me, but NO, I do not bring her in the mall or random stores. She's not a service dog and has no place in bookstores or other places where I NEED my SD, whether I stuff her in a carrier or not.

And that's unfortunate... because of irrisponsible dog owners, not only are my/our dogs (typical pets) not allowed anywhere, but service dogs are questioned as well... and that's ridiculous!

I was in Wal Mart a while back, eating at McD's... what do you know, someone had a yorkie-something puppy, carring it around and eating. Later, while shopping, a little girl was carrying a chi pup in her coat - with those skate-shoes (Hate those!) My first thought was what if she fell? Then... wait... WTH is that dog doing in here around the food ??

Where are the parents? Or the owners brains? just wondering...

 

[Gempress]

Many toy dogs are very different from larger dogs. They *want* to be in your lap all the time. They *want* to be carried all the time. They delight in it. And they were bred to do so. For example, take the pekinese (sp?). They have a very distinctive rolling, lumbering, rather clumsy gait. It is NOT a dog that was bred to walk everywhere--it was meant to be carried.

And exactly how does a purse dog suffer from lack of stimulation? They see the same things, hear the same noises, smell the same scents, and get the same interaction with their people as a dog on a leash. A dog is somehow deprived just because it's being carried instead of walking? That's like saying a dog made to walk at a strict heel in a public place is "suffering" because it can't go exploring.

In all seriousness, what harm does a purse do? Not everybody who carries a dog in a purse is a fashion accessory idiot like Paris Hilton. A purse is simply a device that makes it easier for people to carry their toy dogs with them and keep track of them. That's it. Doesn't hurt the dog at all. So why all this dislike of purses? IMHO, there's no reason for it. Isn't there enough genuine animal abuse in the world to worry about, without fussing about something as silly as dog purses?

 

[release the hounds]

I obviously did not read all 11 pages of this, but in response to the OP.

I don't find any of it abusive. I find it a little silly, but that's me. I don't think they are a fashion accessory, but i'm not saying that anyone that dresses their dog up is paris hilton either. I don't like getting dressed up myself, why would I do it to my dog? They'd just rip it off anyway, either with their teeth, running thru the trees, swimming, etc.

I don't think they should be allowed into places that are not pet friendly. just because it fits in a purse and can be carried doesn't mean its not a dog. I can bring mine in, at a perfect heel and walk thru an entire store with my dog by my side better than any parent with their children. Does that mean i'm exempt from the rules too? of course not, and I respect those rules.

I may think its unfair, because really my dogs are better in public than most kids, but I still can't do it.

But in the end, who cares what other people think. Most think I'm crazy cause I go to the butcher shop to get their dog food. They think i'm an idiot for not vaccinating my dogs every year. They think I spend way too much time training them. I always get the comments "aren't they trained yet??" we went to a 6 week course and got ours trained!" People don't understand that if my dog isn't welcome at your place, even if it has to be kept in a crate in my vehicle I still need to bring them, then i'm not coming.

I don't really give 2 **its what they think, its not them that i'm trying to take care of or keep happy. So if I think you're a little on the goofy side for dressing your dog up and carrying it in a purse, does it really matter?

 

[FoxyWench]

i think i can put in my 2 cents here...

firstly...
if your dog is NOT a service dog i dont care if its 1 lb of 100lb, whether its in a bag or a stroler or wrapped in your coat, it does NOT belong anywhere with a sighn saying no dogs alowed.
I qualify for service dog assistance and many a time ive been refused acces because my toy breeds "cant be service dogs" (and im too poor to take things to court)
Its RIDICULOUS that ANYONE thinks they personally have the right to ignore the "no dogs allowed" sighn just becuase their dog is little.

that being said.

im a SMALL breed owner...

i have 2 chihuahuas and a chinese crested...
my chinese crested has about triple the energy of my chis...and i unfortunatly only have time per day to go to the park once...i cant go home get the chis take them to the park, take them home pick up ruby and go back...so we go in 1 trip and i take the sling (think those baby slings) after about a mile dodger says hes had enough by laying down and refusing to move (and im not dragging a 3lb chihauha across the ground...hes done hes tired so in the sling he goes and i continue walking, after another 1/2 mile vixies had enough and she goes in the sling with dodger, and ruby conitnues walking for another mile and half usually...during this time vixie and dodger get to peek out watch the world go by, watch the birds and the ducks and see what were seeing without being overly exhausted and yet i still have both hands free to safely control ruby and pick up poop...
Simple!
If im oging somewhere busy and taking the dogs the carrier comes with my, dodger is 3lbs full grown, ive had people almost step on him even in open rather emtpy places, its SAFER to just be able tp ick him up when it gets too crowded and put him in the carrier.

all my dogs get to walk, they have legs they run and play and get excersize but there are situations when its safer for the dog to just be carried...
this does NOT mean ill stuff them in a carrier every time we go out, that they never feel gras of sniff...i do not sneak them into places they shouldnt be...SIMPLE.

as for clothes...i own a crestie...shes nekkid...the short and sweet fo it is she NEEDS clothes pretty much year round.
In the winter she gets pjs and coats...i live in ct it snows it gets cold, i wouldnt walk aroudn nekkid out there so i dont expect my dog to...
for the chis, being long haired, if its not warm enough for me to feel comofrtable in a LIGHT sweater, they get coats and such too!
in the spring and fall its light sweaters and coats and in the summer its sunscreen and tishirts...my dog WILL burn and im not going to stop her from playing outside just because the suns out...she wears a t-shirt when swimming too as wet white dogs burn too easily!

the chis...well once the warmer weather comes in they get t-shirts only for the cuteness and if there acting too hot it comes off...

however none of my dogs wear anything they dont want to.
ruby gets excited and will "dress herself" by shoving her head and paws in...
vixie and dodger BRING their sweaters...
if one of my dogs was to sit there and pout or freek out i wouldnt dress them...simple.

that being said, there are people that go way overboard...those people are NOT RESPONSIBLE small dog owners. THOSE people are the folks who buy the "popular breed" as a fashion acessory and once the dog outgrows that tiny purse they toss it for the next big thing...those people make me sick!

if your dog is happy well rounded and healthy and gets to be a dog, i dont care if you put a flashy collar or a cute sweater on it once in a while...
keep your PET out of walmart and let it walk and get dirty sometimes and i dont care if your carrying it in a $200 purse...

to anyone that thinks because my dogs in a "purse" im trying to be paris hilton...
or to anyone that thinks carrying my dog is NOT spending quality time with it...
my dogs enjoy being carried, remember toy breeds were bred as companions, they are lap dogs and like to be picked up and handled by their person, to them there is no "happier" time with their person than being close by their side no matter what there doing...

my oh so abused Ruby Girl in her winter outfit

yup she looks REALY abused right here!

and yet...shes still a dog!
If thats abuse...someone lock me up NOW!

 

[Juicy]

Being carried around isn't anything new to these breeds. Shih tzus were often carried in Kimono sleeves in China.

Bows are often use to keep the dog's fur out of its face and eyes.

A Royal Proclamation was issued that King Charles commanded that all Toy Spaniels be granted entry everywhere in the British Empire - shops, cafes, pubs, offices, etc.

I doubt it people complained much back then. They had dogs that went for THEIR needs. They didn't relly care what others used their dogs for.

They wanted dogs compnion for hunting? They made hunting dogs.

They wanted dogs to kill rats? They made ratter dogs.

They wanted dogs for guarding? They made guard dogs.

They wanted dogs for herding? They made herd dogs.

They wanted dogs for working? They made working dogs.

So when people wanted a constant companionship dog, they bred these little ones. Who often suffer from separation anxiety, because of THEIR constant need of human companionship.

Not all dogs were bred for good intentions, like bull-fighting/dog-fighting dogs.

But simply spoiling a dog isn't going to harm them. Unless you're putting them in small bird cages to prevent growth like they did back in the dys, but those are inhumne cses. There's a difference spoiling and inhumne.

Not all small dog breeds were bred for long hikes, ect. If someone wanted dog to go on long hikes, ect they would get a large breed dog. I don't complain that my little dog can't go jump in a river and fetch me a duck. I know what I was getting when I got a small dog, including that I can take them to most places where otherwise larger dogs aren't allowed. Is it fair? No, but if you wanted a dog to take anywhere with you, then you should of gotten a smaller dog.

If I wanted a bird fetching dog I would of gotten a retriever. But I don't mind pictures of large dog breeds fetching ducks or herding. I think its pretty neat that large dog breed owners can do those kind of things with their dogs. But I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't do that, because I can't do so with my little dog.

Some places over here don't allow the dogs to be on the floor [due to pooping/peeing/chewing/whatever the case], but if they're carried or in a carrier then its ok. Hey if you want to carry your 100lb dog around, by all means, go for it.

I rather see a small dog in a carrier in a store than a large dog outside a store in a car on a hot day, because the owners couldn't take them in the store with them. This happens all too often, but people rather argue with people who actually take care of their dogs and care about their dogs needs [maybe even if its 'over the top'.] IMO that is simply ludacris.

People have different definitions for dog ownership and it being 'over the top'. Some think simply think having a dog INDOORS is 'over the top'. So whats wrong with a good dog owner doing the right thing as a dog owner, and possibly even more?

You want a dog to be treated like a dog? Then take your dogs outside and make them a dog house, play fetch a couple times, and have food and water for them. That to most people is what it is to have a dog 'be treated like a dog'.

I also see the use of these devices for cats, cat carriers and strollers. Cats seem to get a kick out of them, why can't dogs? Maybe the cat doesn't get walked everyday like a dog, but they get plenty of indoor/backyard exercise, like some smaller dog breeds do.

Gempress

 

[ihartgonzo]

Gempress

I believe Gempress agrees with you...

Foxy, I definitely understand what you're saying. Carrying a dog when they're tired is different from restricting the dog to walks in strollers/slings only. I have this neighbor who has THE most annoying Miniature Pinscher ever. The second he gets into their backyard, he goes bolting for the fence and yaps his head off... and he's snapped at my sister. And, every morning, I see her jogging with him; except, he is in a baby harness the whole time. It's just really bizarre to me, to go jogging with your dog and never even set them on the ground, especially when he obviously needs to exercise and training.

I forgot to add to my post, that clothing doesn't bother me, as long as it doesn't restrict the dog's movement. Cresteds do need clothing for warmth and sun protection, in particular.

I don't think anyone here would call even the most extreme purse dogs abused. But, honestly, I do feel that restricting a dog to a purse all day, every day is neglectful. Of course, if the dog is given exercise and mental stimualtion each day, that's totally fine with me. Purses are not my thing, and wouldn't be even if I had a 4 lb dog, but I don't mind them if the dog is well behaved, exercised, and taken only to dog-friendly places.

Ohyay! I was waiting for PM to start with the little-dog-hating Chaz conspiracy theories. = D

 

[Paige]

Miley has pink hair and she rides around in my backpack if I am on the bike with the bigger dogs. She doesn't mind either. People have called it cruel but I have thick skin. Say what you will. My dog is not abused.

 

[noludoru]

well everyone on here is making it seem like dogs shouldnt go anywhere except the dog park... where I live dogs go in Macys, Bloomingdales, Malls, all kinds of stores, people even have them in restaurants... and if someone made a nasty comment to them... they would get typical New Yorker Charm in return

PM - I have a question for you. In NYC are there restrictions on the size of the dog when going to restaurants/stores? Do they have to be off the ground? For instance, if I decided to go a Macy's with Middie and toted him about in a backpack would I be turned away? And as far as restaurants go, are dogs actually allowed inside, or just on the outside tables?

The only thing I have really to add to the debate is that I don't mind WHAT you do with your dog in public - regardless of my personal opinion about it - as long as it isn't overly distracting/disturbing to other patrons, breaking any rules, damaging merchandise, or making your dog unhappy.

 

[Paige]

I tried this out once. I see many, many people taking small dogs onto the bus in carriers and it's obvious and the bus driver lets them. I put Spanky in a duffel bag (bus stop was right infront of my house and he was very willing). I got told I wasn't aloud to bring him on when someone else brought their pom on the bus.

Teehehehe.

 

[release the hounds]

wait a minute, I feel like a dog should be able to go anywhere I go, assuming it is trained and behaves appropriately. My friends in Germany take their dogs a lot more places than we do here, but then they take care of and train their dogs more than most Americans do here. They comment on the lack of dogs in public places and how fat they are every time they're here.

But rules are rules, if it is no dogs then it is no dogs, I don't care if they are in a purse or on a leash

 

[noludoru]

A duffel! PERFECT, Paige!

*grabs clicker, treats, and goes to find duffel*

 

[Paige]

A duffel! PERFECT, Paige!

*grabs clicker, treats, and goes to find duffel*

It was pretty funny. I got a good giggle out of it and Spanky is such a good sport about that sort of thing.

:rofl1:

 

[Juicy]

wait a minute, I feel like a dog should be able to go anywhere I go, assuming it is trained and behaves appropriately. My friends in Germany take their dogs a lot more places than we do here, but then they take care of and train their dogs more than most Americans do here. They comment on the lack of dogs in public places and how fat they are every time they're here.

But rules are rules, if it is no dogs then it is no dogs, I don't care if they are in a purse or on a leash

In the dominican republic, people take their dogs everywhere. Even where there's food. Most of the time the dog is offleash, but has excellent manners. But you don't hear very often bout dogs getting hit by cars or attacking. These dogs are very street savvy. But like with every country, we have our share of problems too, we have lots of stray dogs, sad sight to see

We don't have shetlers, most people don't take their dogs to the vets, unwanted litters happen all the time and are dumped on the streets, s/n?...unheard of.

 

[PoodleMommy]

PM - I have a question for you. In NYC are there restrictions on the size of the dog when going to restaurants/stores? Do they have to be off the ground? For instance, if I decided to go a Macy's with Middie and toted him about in a backpack would I be turned away? And as far as restaurants go, are dogs actually allowed inside, or just on the outside tables?

Macy's rule is that the dog be on a 4 ft (or less) lead I believe... The mall I go to just says they must be leashed, although I am sure they dont want your dog on a 20 foot lead or something. My everyday leash is 4 feet so I use it no matter where I am. I see all kinds of dogs in that mall from big hairy dogs to tiny hairless ones People are very considerate though and I have never seen any signs that dogs were around.

The subway says dogs must be "contained"... so I guess thats one of those "whatever it means to you" things, lol.

As far as restaurants, some dont allow dogs at all, but most allow them in the outside seating areas... most will seat you towards the outer ring and your dog needs to be on the floor (preferably under your chair or table so the waiter does not trip). Most people tie the dogs leashes to the fence thing around the outside of the table (totally not explaining that well ) and the dogs go to sleep under their chairs... some places will go as far as bringing the dog water or a treat as well.... but I say its better to bring your own thing such as a bully stick or something if you want to ensure the dog actually behaves... because lets face it even the best behaved dog is going to be a bit tempted by a juicy steak a few feet away.

 

[noludoru]

Macy's rule is that the dog be on a 4 ft (or less) lead I believe... The mall I go to just says they must be leashed, although I am sure they dont want your dog on a 20 foot lead or something. My everyday leash is 4 feet so I use it no matter where I am. I see all kinds of dogs in that mall from big hairy dogs to tiny hairless ones People are very considerate though and I have never seen any signs that dogs were around.

The subway says dogs must be "contained"... so I guess thats one of those "whatever it means to you" things, lol.

As far as restaurants, some dont allow dogs at all, but most allow them in the outside seating areas... most will seat you towards the outer ring and your dog needs to be on the floor (preferably under your chair or table so the waiter does not trip). Most people tie the dogs leashes to the fence thing around the outside of the table (totally not explaining that well ) and the dogs go to sleep under their chairs... some places will go as far as bringing the dog water or a treat as well.... but I say its better to bring your own thing such as a bully stick or something if you want to ensure the dog actually behaves... because lets face it even the best behaved dog is going to be a bit tempted by a juicy steak a few feet away.

No, you made sense. Ive seen that in restaurants before, and that was what I figured you meant by dogs being allowed in restaurants. When we took Middie to a restaurant we sat outside with him, and he did exactly that - he fell asleep at our feet, only waking and getting up when offered food or if a waiter came to pet him. LOL!

That's so cool that malls/department stores allow dogs. I couldn't imagine bringing Middie to a place like that, but I think it's awesome that well-behaved dogs are allowed.

You do know you're only cementing my desire to move to NYC some day, right?

 

[PoodleMommy]

You do know you're only cementing my desire to move to NYC some day, right?

omg... give me 20 minutes with someone and they want to move to NYC... there are soo many reasons I love it... the fact that it is animal friendly is only the icing on the cake... in college I had the hardest time finding a place to live with just a cat and here almost every building I looked at allowed animals... but there is just so much to do here... there are bars, restaurants, stores, parks, street festivals, haha... ill stop but you get the idea. I have a hard time believing anything could ever get me out of this place... the ONE AND ONLY downside is the skyrocketing rents but we will just ignore that one little issue right now

 

[noludoru]

omg... give me 20 minutes with someone and they want to move to NYC... there are soo many reasons I love it... the fact that it is animal friendly is only the icing on the cake... in college I had the hardest time finding a place to live with just a cat and here almost every building I looked at allowed animals... but there is just so much to do here... there are bars, restaurants, stores, parks, street festivals, haha... ill stop but you get the idea. I have a hard time believing anything could ever get me out of this place... the ONE AND ONLY downside is the skyrocketing rents but we will just ignore that one little issue right now

Yeah, it's going to probably have to wait until after college, because I have NO idea how I would be able to afford rent - with a dog, no less - on whatever job I could get as a college student. Or if I could even go to college there, lol. The only way I'd probably be able to manage that is getting into modeling.

It'd be a huge lifestyle change, though. But I think I would like it a lot better.