This just makes me sick.

~Jessie~ · Jan 24, 2012

Then it's your responsibility to find an appropriate place for your dog to go. Rescue, animal sanctuary, new home, etc, etc.

If I posted that I took Rory (a young, rowdy border collie) out to my backyard and "humanely" shot him because he was getting on my nerves, I'm sure I'd pay hell for it from every member on this forum. Step up and tell me this is acceptable. I'm too lazy to go to a shelter and it's what people here do.

Pops2 · Jan 24, 2012

something not being considered on the "conveinence" argument is the fact that even a failure from working lines is (more often than not) no more fit to be an average house pet than a range bull. & while it's nice to think all sunshine & roses, "that some brave soul will take on the task if i take out an honest add" 90% of dog owners can't handle a laid back lay around all day dog w/o screwing it up.
half my family being cattlemen in TX, i know first hand how much a PITA a cow dog can be even if it sucks at being a cow dog. working dogs are mostly tools & like a screwdriver you just dispose of it if it's "broken". the idea of giving someone a broken screw driver wouldn't cross their likewise a "broken" dog. doesn't mean they don't care about the dogs. just means they don't think it is responsible to pass what they see as a defective tool on to someone else.
heck if i had july, houla or certain other breeds of VERY difficult nature that genuinely "had to go," unless i PERSONALLY knew someone CAPABLE & WANTING to deal w/ them, most likely i'd put them down. it'd have to be a really exceptional dog that literally was what the lab/golden stereotype is. most dogs i'd own are typically hard pets for a good owner, be damned if i'm going to pass something like that on to the average moron to become a neighborhood pestilence. if the situation is such that they need to go, then i also don't have weeks or months of looking to find just the right person for them. is the dog's death for my conveinence? you bet. is it more responsible than dumping it at a shelter where it would likely go to exactly the kind of person it shouldn't? absolutely. would it offend a bunch of folks that can't see the difference between the dogs i tend to keep & most of the couch potatoes that trot around at westminster? bet money on it.
now imagine how much worse that looks through second & third hand stories.
i'll say again not enough information to pass judgement.

VomBullenfeld · Jan 24, 2012

Wow, that is unreal. There should be a ban for people like this to own any kind of living creatures...just sad.

sillysally · Jan 24, 2012

IDK, I see non "dog people" handle what are considered "difficult" breeds successfully all the time. Yes, many people get dogs they can't handle, but I genuinely believe that many more get difficult dogs but are successful anyway. Some of what would be considered the most "difficult" breeds that I have met have been owned not by dedicated "dog people" but by horse people who also happened to own dogs.

Then it comes down to what you consider a hard dog to own. I have a probably randomly bred APBT or "pit bull mix" of some sort that we got at a year old that knew nothing when she came to our home (and I knew NOTHING about dogs, I had to Google to learn how to teach her "sit") and a bench bred lab from a breeder who we got at 10 wks. Out of the two of them Sally is hands down the easier dog to own and better "pet." She's not a lazy, potato dog-she is driven, problem solvingly intelligent, athletic, and has a high prey drive, but all of these things also make her far more adaptable then Jack. But, she technically *should* be the harder dog to own.

Gempress · Jan 25, 2012

Just to be clear, I was NOT offering an opinion on the OP's post. I wanted to clarify when I noticed that many people seem to be under the impression that a shelter or rescue is a simple, clear-cut alternative for everyone. It's not. Not everyone has easy access to such a resource, especially those in the rural areas that are a big part of this discussion.

Whisper · Jan 25, 2012

I agree with Charliedog. Vehemently.

Okay, so the owner was a douche, to put it nicely.

As far as shooting animals, however. . .I've talked about the Rottweilers I grew up with quite a bit. One of them was "euthanized" with a bullet. She was old, she was in horrible pain, she should have PTS months sooner, but it wasn't my choice. For most people putting a gun to their dog's head is impossible to imagine. It's a horrible thing to shoot a dog, right?
Well, Rosie was with people she loved, lying out on the sun, in the desert she was happy in, being rubbed on and told how much she was loved. Then it was over in a second.
Mandy, a fear aggressive dog I had as a 9 year old, was euthanized in a vet's office. She was shaking, terrified, being pulled by a leash while trying to take in everything she was terrified by, given a sedative, put on a metal table, then after she was gone she was sprayed down with a hose and put in a bag.

I can tell you I much prefer the first option, regardless of what impression shooting a dog provides.

Now, would I choose to shoot my dog when the time came for euthanasia? No. I couldn't do it, and I'm not saying it's actually better to shoot your dog than have it euthanized in a vet's office. But people don't understand how a clean shot with a bullet can be more humane for some cases. When it came to the choice for Rosie, it was all for her benefit. It was so she could be in the place she was happy, so she didn't have to be brought into a vet building and made uneasy, so she only had her loved ones around and no strangers or needles. It's easy for people to judge at lightening speed, but it doesn't mean the owner is lazy or can't be bothered with the other options. For what it's worth, the person who shot Rosie shed many tears over it. It wasn't an easy choice for him, nor by any means the first that came into his mind.

Paige · Jan 25, 2012

I feel really torn on this subject because I have always lived within 20 minutes of a shelter or a vet. I couldn't imagine having to shoot my own dog for whatever reason... but I have never lived in that kind of situation so what do I know about rural living?

Xandra · Jan 25, 2012

I'm prrettty sure people aren't upset about the method of killing that was chosen for the cattle dog, but rather the fact that killing it seemed to be the first option on the table.

I completely agree that shooting is not only as humane, but more humane. If Roman needs to be euthanized, I'd rather he 'go for a walk in the woods' with me than go to a vet's office. I remember one guy I quite liked on another forum saying that only over his dead body would his dogs spend their last minutes being mucked with by a stranger.

But I digress... this is about killing a dog for behavioral reasons without exhausting or trying other options.

I am ardently for maintaining the right to humanely kill any animal in your possession (save for an endangered spp) for any reason.

Ethically, if the dog was just being rough with an older dog, but was otherwise a good cattle dog, and he shot it without trying to find someone who could handle it, I'm afraid I find that distasteful.

Now if the dog was nervy, wouldn't work the cattle, attacked his older border collie etc then I think ending it the way he did was the right thing to do.

Whisper · Jan 25, 2012

Xandra, good post, and yes, for the most part people have been talking about the irresponsibility of the owner, but there have also been several comments directly about how awful it is to shoot a dog.

ravennr · Jan 25, 2012

I think it's understandable that some people are unnerved by the shooting alone. It's not what a good chunk of the community is used to. I grew up around it, bu many didn't, and it upsets them. So, I don't know that trying to use a lot of anecdotal evidence that this is a 'better method' is going to make it any easier for anyone.

Xandra · Jan 25, 2012

Whisper said:

Oh ok I must have overlooked those. I find it depressing and disappointing that people are offended by the idea of someone euthanizing their own animal... I can see not being able to do it, but being incapable of appreciating the merits of euthanizing in a nice peaceful place with a bullet, I find that sad. Now I'm not saying that everyone should put down their own pets, or that they are bad owners if they don't, it's oftentimes the only thing that's practical, for a number of reasons. That said I still think if the dog is mobile and fairly "with it," and you are capable, that it is an ideal end.

And I want to make a correction, because I'm sure someone here has a dog that loves going to the vet's more than they love walks through the woods... for a dog that enjoys being at the vet's, that would be the best option for them... or if a dog doesn't care about needles and loves strangers a vet that does house calls would be just as well.

Whisper · Jan 25, 2012

ravennr, I agree, but what better way to talk about both sides of an issue other than using your own experiences?
(Also I pointed I wasn't trying to say that shooting is better than euthanasia.)

Whisper · Jan 25, 2012

Xandra said:

Very well said. I do understand that people can't stomach it. I grew up (and still live in) an area full of ranches where animals, and yes, including household pets, are shot more often than euthanized, and even I used to have a hard time with it.
With Rosie. . .she was doing her favorite thing, her ears fluttering in the breeze, everyone she loves was with her, and then. . .it was just over. That's the way I'd want to go.

Xandra said:

Yes, I agonize over this. I don't think I can do it to my own dog. I don't think I'd be able to pull the trigger. However, Millie absolutely despises vet visits and doesn't like strange people touching her, and I don't want her last moments to be with needles and metal and vets around, and if I had a vet come out, that still would not be comfortable for her. So I do think a lot about how I will choose to let Millie go if I'm faced with that choice.

OutlineACDs · Jan 25, 2012

Pops2 said:

something not being considered on the "conveinence" argument is the fact that even a failure from working lines is (more often than not) no more fit to be an average house pet than a range bull. & while it's nice to think all sunshine & roses, "that some brave soul will take on the task if i take out an honest add" 90% of dog owners can't handle a laid back lay around all day dog w/o screwing it up.
half my family being cattlemen in TX, i know first hand how much a PITA a cow dog can be even if it sucks at being a cow dog. working dogs are mostly tools & like a screwdriver you just dispose of it if it's "broken". the idea of giving someone a broken screw driver wouldn't cross their likewise a "broken" dog. doesn't mean they don't care about the dogs. just means they don't think it is responsible to pass what they see as a defective tool on to someone else.
heck if i had july, houla or certain other breeds of VERY difficult nature that genuinely "had to go," unless i PERSONALLY knew someone CAPABLE & WANTING to deal w/ them, most likely i'd put them down. it'd have to be a really exceptional dog that literally was what the lab/golden stereotype is. most dogs i'd own are typically hard pets for a good owner, be damned if i'm going to pass something like that on to the average moron to become a neighborhood pestilence. if the situation is such that they need to go, then i also don't have weeks or months of looking to find just the right person for them. is the dog's death for my conveinence? you bet. is it more responsible than dumping it at a shelter where it would likely go to exactly the kind of person it shouldn't? absolutely. would it offend a bunch of folks that can't see the difference between the dogs i tend to keep & most of the couch potatoes that trot around at westminster? bet money on it.
now imagine how much worse that looks through second & third hand stories.
i'll say again not enough information to pass judgement.

This was the point I was trying to make.

Dekka · Jan 25, 2012

First off who said it was a working dog. At least most farm dogs around here are just pets who bark at predators for the most part. No herding, or not much, needed. I too have seen elderly couples handle some pretty 'interesting' cattle dogs in my day. (seems most farm families I know the heads of the household are older)

Xandra said:

Not sure its more humane. It is if there are no issues. A small moving dog can be a tricky target.

Also my vet is no stranger to my dog or me. Plus my vet will come to my home if I want her too when the time comes (actually they make house calls for all sorts of reasons) When I had a stressy aggressive JRT rescue that had to be put down I took him out back and lay with him in the grass and they came out and put him down in the shade of tree. A good vet should not be a stranger mucking with your dog.

cloudcandy · Jan 25, 2012

I dont dissagree with the fact that a bullet could be more/less painfull.I would imagine for.most dogs dying at home would be preferable.
Since I have had no experience with guns,the image of holding.a.gun to a pups head is a stronger emotional image then to some of you who are used to this sort of thing.
I'm not unhappy with the way the dog was killed,it is the act it was killed that I find that upsetting.However I know nothing of how cattle dog's..farming lifestyle work.I appreciate it is very different to having a pet dog.Since we don't know the full story I'm only judging on what the OP wrote,going by that I think what happened was wrong.
If the dog.was as other people said,not going to do well at all etc.then maybe it was ok.Still as other people has said some dog's will do.fine in "pet" home's,I would have liked that pup to have had a chance to try.

sillysally · Jan 25, 2012

I would like to put a word in for farmers. My stepdad is a farmer who was raised by a farmer. They had had poultry, cattle, etc growing up. My stepdad would never dream of shooting a dog, even a farm dog, because it was rowdy and he didn't want to deal with it. He would find that incredibly irresponsible--in his view if you take on a dog, cat, horse, etc you have a responsibility to that animal, and if you can't take care of it you find someone who will.

~Jessie~ · Jan 25, 2012

Whisper said:

There is nothing wrong with this.

Your dog was old, sick, and in pain. Whether it was from a bullet or the euthanasia drug, you did the most humane thing you could do for Rosie at the end of her life.

I couldn't imagine using a gun as a substitute for euthanasia (I didn't grow up in a situation/location where it is a NORMAL thing to do so it would make me uncomfortable), but I DO understand why people would choose to do it. If you know it's going to be a single clean shot, then I don't see anything inhumane about it.

I respect how your family let Rosie going while feeling calm, happy, and loved. I DREAD having to make the decision(s) one day to put my dogs to sleep. Going to the vet stresses them out. Having the vet come to the house would stress them out as well.

But anyway, my issue is ending a dog's life with a bullet out of convenience, ignorance, laziness, etc, etc.

And it actually made me feel sick to read the post where dogs are comparable to a screw driver, and how spending a month to find a dog a new home is just too difficult. That way of thinking is just disgusting to me. Of course, dogs are legally considered property, but it is human DECENCY to give them the respect they deserve.

Mans best friend and all that jazz. If you take a dog into your home and they don't work for you, then it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as a decent human being to find them a new home.

Again, Rory is rowdy and young. Who agrees I should tie him to a tree and just shoot him myself? It's a big inconvenience to me to find him a home and I don't feel like driving to the shelter. I mean, it's humane- he'll just die and that's that. What if the home I placed him in was abusive? It's better just to shoot him myself than take the time to find a place for him to go

Doberluv · Jan 25, 2012

Good post Jessie. I agree. As long as the bullet kills instantly and they have no pain, I see no difference between that and euthanasia drugs. The point for me is the reasons behind putting a dog down, whichever of those methods is used. Putting a dog down for frivolous reasons is disgusting. And yes, I decide what's frivolous! If it's an inconvenience, if the dog doesn't work hard enough or well enough, if the dog is a behavioral nuisance but not dangerous...these kinds of things are sickening reasons. A dog that simply doesn't work out for someone ought to be given a chance at life with someone else.

Yup, after all these thousands of years, having the phenomenal bond humans have had with dogs, what they've done for us, comparing them to a screw driver makes me sick too.

Shakou · Jan 25, 2012

sillysally said:

Exactly. Most of the people on here are talking about putting a dog down using a bullet VS euthanasia and what's more humane, and thus telling stories about some old or injured dog that was put down by a gun rather then a needle. Not sure how many of you read my post about how I grew up on a rural farm where this was done to old and sick animals about as often as it was needed, so obviously I'm not arguing the method of being put down. I'm arguing the reason. This dog was not sick, old, or injured. There was no indications it was man aggressive. From the sounds of it, it's only issue was being an ill-trained, under stimulated cattle dog. Kind of like how Marlin was when I first adopted him. If what the OP said is true, it wasn't warranted here. I don't care if it was legal, or "his right as a pet owner", or whatever other BS reasons people have been coming up with. It was wrong.

This just makes me sick.

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