Im kind Of Thinking about breeding

[JennSLK]

My advice to you would be to get Emanon spayed and show her in obedience, and make an obedience trial champion out of her. Emanon="no name" spelled backward. Love her and enjoy her company as your best bud. Just try to get a mental image of raising 11 6 week old Dobe puppies that weigh about 16 pounds each!!!!! It was a daunting task, believe me! Twice was enough to cure me for life!!!!!

Keep in mind that my post was THINKING about breeding. I have AT LEAST 2 years to think about it, I probably whont breed her, but maybe in the furture I will breed someday. who knows.

I am NOT going to spay her. I want to SHOW. Nothing ANYONE says will change my mind. MAYBE after her first litter (granted she passes everything) then I will get her spayed.

Of course she will be my best bud. Shw will be starting puppy agility classes in July, and obediance training with one of Emma's agility trainers who just MOTCH'd her youngest Aussie. But bottom line I want her for SHOWING

 

[jess2416]

Emanon

Totally off the subject but I like that name

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Totally off the subject but I like that name

I believe it was from an Our Gang Comedy movie. But could not swear to it. Not original with me.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Jenn, keep in mind the many hurdles you must cross with a show prospect.

Getting ears to stand.

Waiting for teeth and bite to come in.

Many if not most dogs are not ready to really compete until they are 12 to 18 months old, and sometimes later than that.

If you show the dog as a puppy for experience, you can have thousands invested already before the dog is really competitive for points.

And then you still have health testing to get through. Heart issues are rampant in Dobes. I presume people screen hips and elbows and eyes as well.

You can do prelims at 12 months to get an idea of what things look like re: hips and elbows, but in the US if you are using OFA, final results are not until 24 months.

More puppies than not that are graded as show prospects as babies end up not making the grade in the ring or as breeding stock for a variety of reasons.

If you TRULY want a show dog, I would recommend you buy a puppy of at LEAST 6 months of age (all teeth are in by this time) and if you are serious, one not under 12 months of age.

Puppies are great fun, but there is absolutely NO way to predict if the gorgeous prospect at 8 weeks will be competitive by 12 to 18 months of age.

 

[joce]

And don't get too attached. Most of the dogs placed in show homes get shuffled around when they start to mature because one has filled out better than thought etc. People having diffrent pups in six months is not all that uncommon on the dobe boards. Its not like showing terriers.

 

[doberkim]

funny, most people i know who get their dobes (with whatever purpose they have in mind) want them because they love the BREED - not because they want to show.

RD - that is not the liberty that she is getting her dog from - you are looking at butch's liberty canine in the states, which is not the one this poster is getting a dog from.

OP- you couldnt even remember the name of the sire and dam when i asked - do you know yet? how many dogs does dan actually have at his place? what titles do the parents have, and what health testing?

i disagree thoroughly that we need to go to europe to get good dobes, or that there are no good ones left - personally, its hypocritical to bemoan the health of the breed and then suggest we need to go to europe to get better structure, since they are light years behind us in health testing and especially TELLING - look at the top working dobe over there and how many litters he has sired, and tell me how many of his offspring, his littermates, and the dogs in his pedigree have lived past 7.

jenn, i think you have a lot to learn. is it impossible to finish a dobe owner handled? no - but you could be showing a very long time before you even get a glance from a judge (thats if you show in the states). no one can evaluate the terrible pic you put up of that bitch on dogster - its not even the right angle to look at her, but from what i CAN see there, its not great.

and quite honestly, i think you will get screwed with this contract. all the talk in the world wont really matter when another litter that didnt need to be, is bred.

 

[doberkim]

And don't get too attached. Most of the dogs placed in show homes get shuffled around when they start to mature because one has filled out better than thought etc. People having diffrent pups in six months is not all that uncommon on the dobe boards. Its not like showing terriers.

actually, its not THAT common, and its not something i agree with. personally, if all you care about is getting the next CH, you dont deserve to have the dobe. i would never shuffle puppies in and out of my house just beacuse their structure doesnt work out - i love the BREED irregardless of it the dog is finishable. i dont agree with it, and i dont think we should just accept it. i think its selfish, and if its all you care about, then do as red suggested and get an older dog that you have better chances with. there are no guarantees in dogs, and i think its ridiculous to accept rehoming just because they dont work out - you either commit to the dog or you dont.

 

[joce]

And with this girl set on showing,not just the breed that what I'm saying. Not saying that juggling homes is a good thing.

in other words if your goal is showing and not the breed then you are not going to get lucky with your first pup.

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Doberkim....since I have been out of Dobes for many years, could you enumerate some of the finer specimens alive today that you feel that are good enough representatives of the breed to be worthy of breeding? That would make it unnecessary to go to Europe to get decent conformation? Thank you!

 

[JennSLK]

I came on here for info about breeding and all I am getting is bashed!!!!

I am getting a dobe because I wanted a show dog and I have LOVED the breed since I was little. She is going to be a agility/abediance dog as well.

Yes I am getting a show quality dobe because I want to show. Yes I want a CH. yes I prepared for the $$$ invloved. If I cant finish her myself I will hire it done, as I've said before

jenn, i think you have a lot to learn. is it impossible to finish a dobe owner handled? no - but you could be showing a very long time before you even get a glance from a judge (thats if you show in the states). no one can evaluate the terrible pic you put up of that bitch on dogster - its not even the right angle to look at her, but from what i CAN see there, its not great

Of course I have ALOT to learn, Im new to showing and to the world of Dobes. At least I'm willing to admit I dont know alot, unlike alot of people I know in the dog world (not you guys).

Yes Leia's pic is horable. It was like the 4th time EVER I had stacked a dog. My fieance took the pic, so no it's not a good angle. All the pic was intended for was to show my mom what she looked like.

Ive said it before. I am in CANADA, not the US. Dobes arent as copetitive here. I will stick to smaller shows to begin with and I Im not ready at bigger shows I will get a pro to handle.

The dog will be 100% mine, so she cant be shuffled around. If she fails miserbly in the show ring, oh well. It will be in a writen legal contract that she HAS to be over 2yrs, CH, and passes all health/temperment tests before she is bred.

funny, most people i know who get their dobes (with whatever purpose they have in mind) want them because they love the BREED - not because they want to show

It's posible to be both you know

They way you guys are talking sounds like because it's a show dog it whont be my best bud. That couldnt be farther from the truth. I will love her no matter what.

People ask me all the time if i would love Emma if she never won a agility trial. I allways answer that if she wins nationals I will love her to death, if she never wins a trial in her life I will love her to death.

The same goes for no name.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

We aren't trying to bash you Jenn, just share our experience.

I bought my first show prospect in 1990. She was a good bitch, not a great one. Her bite went off, and she was long in body, so I chose not to use her. I used her sister instead. She was major pointed with all health testing. I sent her to a dog who had been #1 the previous year, was producing VERY nicely, and whose pedigree matched up with hers very well. The entire litter was riddled with health and temperament issues. A complete dead end.

In 1995 I purchased another bitch at age 6 months. She was stone cold gorgeous. However, her temperament left a lot to be desired. I tried to breed her once, she could not conceive. She always had season issues, split heats, varied intervals. She had cystic ovaries and would never have conceived. Another (expensive) dead end.

In 2002 I acquired an import bitch. Bred her to a nice young CH dog. She had an ER section, ruptured her uterus ending her breeding career, and I ended up with no surviving puppies. She is spayed and will live out her life here as my adored pet.

I made an agreement to purchase my middle bitch before she was born.

She is from CH parents with all health testing, and generations of top producers. Her sire has produced numerous BIS and BISS winning get. Her dam is down from one of the finest bitches EVER in my breed, and she is linebred on this bitch.

She is elbow dysplastic and homely. She will live out her life here with me as another adored pet.

In 2004 I acquired Penny. Things look pretty bright for her in the ring, but it certainly remains to be seen what will happen with her in the whelping box.

I wish you much better luck, but many of us know how crushingly difficult it can be to come across that bitch that you not only can be successful with in the show ring, but who has what it takes to build a breeding program on.

It's only taken me, what.....let's see.....17 years.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

We aren't trying to bash you Jenn, just share our experience.

I bought my first show prospect in 1990. She was a good bitch, not a great one. Her bite went off, and she was long in body, so I chose not to use her. I used her sister instead. She was major pointed with all health testing. I sent her to a dog who had been #1 the previous year, was producing VERY nicely, and whose pedigree matched up with hers very well. The entire litter was riddled with health and temperament issues. A complete dead end.

In 1995 I purchased another bitch at age 6 months. She was stone cold gorgeous. However, her temperament left a lot to be desired. I tried to breed her once, she could not conceive. She always had season issues, split heats, varied intervals. She had cystic ovaries and would never have conceived. Another (expensive) dead end.

In 2002 I acquired an import bitch. Bred her to a nice young CH dog. She had an ER section, ruptured her uterus ending her breeding career, and I ended up with no surviving puppies. She is spayed and will live out her life here as my adored pet.

I made an agreement to purchase my middle bitch before she was born.

She is from CH parents with all health testing, and generations of top producers. Her sire has produced numerous BIS and BISS winning get. Her dam is down from one of the finest bitches EVER in my breed, and she is linebred on this bitch.

She is elbow dysplastic and homely. She will live out her life here with me as another adored pet.

In 2004 I acquired Penny. Things look pretty bright for her in the ring, but it certainly remains to be seen what will happen with her in the whelping box.

I wish you much better luck, but many of us know how crushingly difficult it can be to come across that bitch that you not only can be successful with in the show ring, but who has what it takes to build a breeding program on.

It's only taken me, what.....let's see.....17 years.

Great posy RD, its nice for all to see that it isnt easy and takes a lot of time money and long waits

 

[Zoom]

Redyre, what's the name of the great bitch? I'd like to see pictures.

Jenn, if nothing else, be happy that this thread has had tremendous educational experience. I've learned so much about Dobes.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Zoom, her name was BISs CH Gamegard's Image de Femme.

She was a top winner, and produced many dogs and bitches who went on to become top producers.

The photo here does not do her justice. My mouth fell open the first time I saw her at about 18 months of age. She was simply stunning, both standing and moving.

http://pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=J8O7TG7F26

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Jenn.....you mention sticking to small shows---when you show, you are after championship points. You don't get them at the small shows. Now I do not know the way the Canadian shows work other than hearing that a dog can be finished in one weekend, and that many people send their dogs to Canada to get an inexpensive championship on them.

Down here you need 15 points to make a championship. Of those 15, you must have at least 2 shows where your dog wins 3 points or more (called "majors"). Some years back it took something like 25 Dobermans for a 3 point win. Chances of finding 25 Dobes at any show south of New York are slim to none! You can spend a bloody fortune sending a dog around looking for majors!

I knew Jeff Brucker--one of the top Dobe handlers of all time. And even he had trouble at times getting put up! Winning your little blue ribbon in puppy class, or any other class doesn't mean squat. The only thing that matter is winning the Winners class!

Get some videos of Westminster or the Eukanuba shows, and watch them over and over, and watch every handlers' moves. What has always amazed me are the handlers who can get their dogs to just take one step forward after stopping, and having that dog move into a PERFECT rock solid stance!!!!! It is beautiful to see, and awe inspiring when you know how hard it is to train!

I used to love watching Huston Clark with his Foxhound....took the leash off, tapped the tail with his comb, stepped back 3 feet, and that dog became a Royal Doulton figurine!!!! Did not move a whisker!!

You keep using the phrase "I want to show." You need to learn to think in terms of "I want to FINISH"! You can show any purebred dog as long as it does not have any disqualifying faults! A dog may be "show quality". That does not mean diddley. IS IT FINISHABLE. And even more, is it SPECIALS material.

And Redyre, I was told that long in loin is forgiven in bitches because of the fact they need the space to carry the poopy poopers.

You have my empathy and sympathy over your heartbreak with your breeding results. Soooooo, very sad. But also sooooooo often the case.
The smartest breeders are the ones like I am......the ones that have retired!!!!!!!!

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Redyre do you happen to remember a magnificent Rottie named Axelrods Ivan something or other?? He was the top winner like in the history of the breed about 15-20 years ago. My mouth dropped open when I saw him at one of the local shows. Gorgeous dog.......as near perfect as they come!

 

[Gwinnywillow]

Zoom, her name was BISs CH Gamegard's Image de Femme.

She was a top winner, and produced many dogs and bitches who went on to become top producers.

The photo here does not do her justice. My mouth fell open the first time I saw her at about 18 months of age. She was simply stunning, both standing and moving.

http://pawvillage.com/pedigree/dynprofile.asp?ID=J8O7TG7F26

She is gorgeous! But I wonder if there is any such thing any more as a dog "well let down in hock".......which to clear up the mystery means that the bone running from the hock to the stifle is almost horizontal to the ground before starting the upturn. (Kinda like the GSD is, but they are overdone and crippled! That is why they have to stand with one leg under them, or else they would collapse. Hind end ain't strong enough to support the weight of the body length!)

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Gwinny, she was verrrry long.

Some of the long look was minimized as she matured, but when the bite went level I decided not to use her.

I regret it acutely now. I loved her best of any dog I've even known. She's been gone almost 4.5 years and my heart still breaks.

23 mos, first point for BOTH of us. You can clearly see how loooong she is, and how upright in shoulder.

This is 11 years old. I did not know it, but at the time this photo was taken, the bone cancer was already taking her from me. She was dead in less than 90 days. RIP sweet girl, I miss you so....

 

[JennSLK]

I know it's hard to show. Here it is 10points to finish and you need one major. I am planning on sticking to the small shows to start, and hey you never know were I might get. Yes I will aim for the national specalty, but if I dont get there I whont be heart broken. If I need to I will get a pro to handle, I am willing to do that, but I do want to handle as well. By small shows I mean local ones, with like 1200 - 1500 dogs, not hug prize money CH only type shows. You know what I mean?

I just want to learn, thats all. And have fun doing it

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Redyre do you happen to remember a magnificent Rottie named Axelrods Ivan something or other?? He was the top winner like in the history of the breed about 15-20 years ago. My mouth dropped open when I saw him at one of the local shows. Gorgeous dog.......as near perfect as they come!

Hmm.... would you be talking about Radio Ranch's Axel von Notara? He would have been out in the early to mid 80s probably?

Or you might be talking about a Rodsden's dog, there have been MANY MANY very nice ones from there in years past.