Im kind Of Thinking about breeding

[JennSLK]

So im getting a champion bred dobe. The breeder and I have a agreement that he will get the first litter, but will pay for al the testin needed to breed her.

I have a choice. Breed her myself after, or spay her. Now his whont be for AT LEAST 2yrs so Im not worried that I dont have the knowledge about the breed NOW. I will by then. I will be taking care of her first litter with the breeder's help so it's a good way to get experiance.

What I want is for you all to share your horror stories. I am going to breed to a good stud with the aproproate tittles and blodlines. Maybe hearing what does go wrong will change my mind entirely.

I know Im no were near ready now, but maybe in a few years I will be

 

[Mach1girl]

Well, you can start by reading the hundred posts related to my "breeding"!

lol

 

[Gempress]

Just because a dog is from champion stock does not mean it is automatically worthy of breeding. If that were the case, then breeders wouldn't offer both "pet quality" and "show quality" puppies from the same litter. A dog shouldn't be bred based soley on the merits of its grandparents. First, see how your dog does in the show ring. Then worry about it.

And I don't know about that deal. Will the breeder also raise the puppies? It seems like you'll be doing all the dirty work. But then again, I know nothing about common breeding agreements.

EDIT: And that deal you made with the breeder...do you HAVE to breed your pup? Or if you happen to breed her, the breeder gets first litter?

 

[JennSLK]

I have to breed her. BUT we will have it in writing, AFTER she is a champion and AFTER she is 2yrs. I posted iunder general. I am only paying $500 for her and he will do all the testing and take care of the $$

 

[Gempress]

Ah, ok. Sorry, I was a bit confused.

 

[JennSLK]

No problem. I shoud have explained it.

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Be careful what you step into.

Showing dogs is expensive. You will need a handler for Dobes. Even if you are only liable for entry fees and a portion of expenses, it will cost you thousands to finish a dog.

Then there is no guarantee you will get her in whelp, or that she will whelp live puppies, or that she will LIVE through whelping.

Here's my horror story. Ok, let's make it 2.

I bred my first litter in 1996 after being in my breed for 6 years. I bred a major pointed bitch who was hip, elbow, eye, and heart normal to a BIS BISS #1 dog whose pedigree and type balanced hers very nicely.

Out of 9 puppies, 3 were dead before the age of 2. 2 put down for temperament issues, one dead of cancer. My pick bitch went lame at 5 months of age and had to be surgically corrected for a hereditary elbow problem. She was spayed at the same time and I gave her to friends. The male I kept (4 points from BBX before 12 months) was Grade 1 in both elbows, and so was the other show prospect bitch. Because of the elbow and temperament issues in this litter, none of them were used for breeding.

My next litter was in 2003. I bred a V rated import bitch with her IPO1, AD and BH titles to a young AKC CH dog with a CD title. After an ER section, there were 4 surviving puppies. One of them died the same day of the section, leaving me with 3 puppies.

All 3 puppies died of parvo at 9 weeks, despite my desperate efforts and several thousand dollars of vet bills trying to save them.

This ONE breeding cost me in excess of 8 THOUSAND dollars. No puppies. A VERY nearly dead bitch.

It almost put me out of dogs for good.

I love puppies, and I look forward to me next litter, but I am literally TERRIFIED until after the second round of vaccines.

 

[bubbatd]

When are you planning to breed ??

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Grammy, if all goes as planned, likely in November. She will be 2 July 28th, and at that time I will do her final OFAs (hips and elbows), update her CERF, and I'm going to have a Doppler exam done on her heart sometime between now and then.

She should be finished with her AKC CH title by then, and have at least her Rally Novice and ATTS TT titles. I am preparing her for an endurance test the end of April, so if all goes well there, she will have her AD as well.

If my calculations and her schedule holds true, she will be in season sometime in early November for January 07 babies.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

sorry but $500 is very cheep, I dont see why a great breeder would seell breeding stock for that amount

 

[Saje]

I think because he gets the first litter Gallien.

 

[Gallien Jacks]

yes but that is cheep here or a pet, i guess things are different in different places

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

I do not sell my puppies for a lot of money.

I would rather the new owners spend the money on the puppy, supplies, training, classes, etc, than for purchase price.

All my puppies are sold for under $1,000 US, pet or show prospects. There are terms, of course, but I do not require ANY dog to be bred.

 

[Mach1girl]

When I posted my problem both on this forum and others, boy the flame wars started. BUT-ALSO, I had tons and tons(true) of PMs from people admitting that the only way the had aquired their dog was an agreement to breed. I mean it. Those words-along w/ lots of people WANTING a puppy. They "rode the bandwagon" for the world to see, but asdie, they were just like me!

This just goes to show that many, many, many breeders out there require a breeding.It is more common then you or I can imagine! When I was loking for my APBT, I had soooooo many offers for cheap, even free dogs w/ agreements to breed. Usually the sire's owner puts his name on the UKC papers as well. Then they get breeding rights forever and next thing you know you have a "pet-puppy mill". Its bad out there. But it does happen. Then what do you do??? You are stuck!

 

[JennSLK]

The cost for her would be normaly $2500. The reason I am getting her for $500 is because of the breeding agrement.

As for showing dogs I know it's expensive. I whont need a handler. Thats what I am. I am Dan's assistant handler and have been taking clases and such. Dan is no name's breeder

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Jenn, if you are not familiar with the Doberman ring, you will find out what I mean when I say you will need a handler.

Dobes are one of THE hardest breeds to owner/handle and finish.

But best of luck to you with it!

 

[Gwinnywillow]

The cost for her would be normaly $2500. The reason I am getting her for $500 is because of the breeding agrement.

As for showing dogs I know it's expensive. I whont need a handler. Thats what I am. I am Dan's assistant handler and have been taking clases and such. Dan is no name's breeder

I have not heard of any top Dobe breeder named Dan. Who are the parent's of "no-name"? And I can also tell you Dan is no top breeder, because he is purely and simply giving you the SHAFT big time. I got a Dobe bitch from a very exclusive kennel with some of the top OLD lines in her (Elfred, Dobergal, Highquest). The price was $500 and 1st and 3rd pick bitches. The bitch was to be shown and finished. However, if 2 or 3 judges determined that she was not finishable, I would not be obligated to show her.

And you can tell "Dan" just what I said. And tell him I knew Tommie Jones, and Gerrie Hart, and Ellen Hoffman, and Marilyn Mershier. If he has never heard of them, I rest my case.

Tell him to forget the whole thing, and get a pup from a reputable breeder!!!!!

 

[JennSLK]

For your information prices here varry depending on provence or state. Beagles for instance can be $1200 and the exact same dog would be $500 in a different provence.

Dan is from Liberty dobermans. I have watched him at shows, met his dogs and people who have dogs from him. I dont know were your from so you cant judge the price of a pup unlless you are here. As for bloodlines I couldnt tell you off the top of my head. "Maggie" is the mom and "Vegas" is the grandsire. I will get their reg names for you.

Dan is a small breeder. Just because he's not westminister famous or whatever doesnt mean he's a bad breeder. Small breeders can have some NICE stock.

Dobes are one of THE hardest breeds to owner/handle and finish

I know. I have been to alot of shows and talked to alot of people. I have been taking classes with dans dogs and handling them. If he has c confilict at the up comming show in March and has two dogs in at once I will handle one. No it's not a big name national show, it's a smaller local one (about 1200 dogs I think). But its a place to start.

I have not heard of any top Dobe breeder named Dan. Who are the parent's of "no-name"? And I can also tell you Dan is no top breeder, because he is purely and simply giving you the SHAFT big time. I got a Dobe bitch from a very exclusive kennel with some of the top OLD lines in her (Elfred, Dobergal, Highquest). The price was $500 and 1st and 3rd pick bitches. The bitch was to be shown and finished. However, if 2 or 3 judges determined that she was not finishable, I would not be obligated to show her.

And you can tell "Dan" just what I said. And tell him I knew Tommie Jones, and Gerrie Hart, and Ellen Hoffman, and Marilyn Mershier. If he has never heard of them, I rest my case.

You sound like the "Im better than thou" doberman people I avoid at show. Who cares who you know. We are all there for the love of dogs.

 

[Fran27]

I know nothing about Dobes, but you asked in another thread what people think of your deal, and you got one reply. I think you should be happy and not flame her, and maybe contact one of those doberman people you avoid and get a better deal out of them, who knows.

 

[Serena]

There are a few things to consider, first the dog is just show potential she has not yet proven herself in the ring. She may be champion bred but that does not mean she will turn out to be breeding quality herself.

Even if she does obtain Champion status that does not automatically make her breed worthy...there are genetics and temperament to consider..I am being honest with you when I say that your breeder saying you "must" breed her after she is two years old and a champion with no mention to anything else does concern me.

Has the consideration that she may have to be spayed cross your mind or the breeders? From your post it sounds like you are saying that the breeder knows for sure she will turn out well and be worthy of passing on her genetics...

As far as you breeding, I think in that two year time period you won't gain sufficient knowledge to take on breeding on your own. It is a difficult and challenging path and the basis of what you need to know will take much longer to know and understand.