motherofmany said:
::sigh:: a judge putting up a dog does NOT mean that the judge does not recognize that they have faults. There does not exist a dog without faults. A good judge looks for VIRTUES as well as faults and balances them out in his/her mind based upon their understanding of the standard.
Now, I am trying to say this gently but maybe there is no other way than to be blunt- really wish you would quit with the hyper critical comments about other people's breeding programs. Yes, it is important that people choose wisely and yes it is important that they learn how to find the best and then seek out the best. But calling another person's dog based upon breeding to their vision of the standard "pure crapola" is just plain poor sportsmanship.
I stand by the statement that anyone can fault a dog. It is something I learned at breeding seminars given by great breeders like Patricia Trotter and Tommy Coen.
Now, I really don't think there is anything more that can be said to Jenn than has already been said. Oh, besides best wishes to her and I hope she makes good choices.
Yeah, right. I can safely assume you have never even heard of Marienburg's Mary Hartman, or Marienburg kennels for that matter? The enormity of the problem is hard to fathom. At one point Marienburg lines were in every Dobe out there. Even the junk.
(SIGH) To fault a dog you must have an intimate knowledge of the breed standard. And faulting simply means finding points that need correction. Again..... It does not mean badmouthing or putting a dog or its owner down. And yeah, Pat Craig was a great breeder of Elkhounds. What else did she ever breed? I would no more try to fault and Elkhound than I would a Martian, lol. Since I know as much about one as the other.
Point of fact---- many years ago there was an Ibizian Hound at a show that I took some time to study. IT WAS A HORROR!!! Yellow "headlight" eyes, brisket three inches above the elbow, V-shape between the front legs, due to the straight front. No rear angulation, etc, etc. Well, when I got home I looked up the standard. That dog was a perfect specimen of his breed!!!!! In fact it turned out he was the #1 in the country at that time, rofl. Shows we can all learn all the time!
One thing you said is interesting---in Dobes, for instance, just what kind of virtues would outweigh a horribly straight front, absolutely no rear angulation, a head that is not even close to being wedge shaped, is slight of bone to the point of being Greyhoundy. Just what virtue is to be gained by putting up such a horror? If you could find a picture of Mary Hartman and contrast it to the standard, I would be interested in your evaluation.
There is another breed that the top winning male in just about the history of the breed is an absolute abomination! He is so close in the rear you could put a dollar bill between the legs and it would stay there. There is no virtue to be gained from this dog in and of himself, and he does not deserve his wins. It is not _I_ who say this....but the breed standard.
There is no interpretation involved in a breed standard, except maybe for head type. When you learn the "points of reference" you can tell at a glance the quality of what you are looking at. Like counting teeth---it can be done in about 4 seconds----if you know what to look for.
Could YOU fault a Collie? Or an Otterhound? I sure couldn't! But after a year or two of studying the breed standard and scads of dogs, I very well could! If you can't fault, then you shouldn't breed, because you have no road map to follow.
Of course, this is just my humble opinion. I don't know exactly what your angst is with me, but after you breed a few champions and top winners and Best In Show winners, maybe we can compare notes. I didn't hear about it from others at seminars.......I went out and did it. There IS a difference, rofl.
And until Jenn has learned about linebreeding, outcrossing, and inbreeding, and can pick up an pedigree and tell which is which, and until she learns about the various bloodlines, and the FAULTS they carry, there is MUCH to be said. Some will be based on knowledge and experience, and some will be based on opinion. She would do best to take all into consideration, check it out, and see what she can benefit from. Again......just my humble
D ) opinion.
