No, not really. I volunteer at an animal shelter any chance I get, have succsesfully bottle fed and raised 6 orphaned kittens on 4 diffrent occasions, feed a feral cat that lives near me, my older dachies has her own doctor specializing in bones, and has 4 very expensive back surguries, I'v conforted my black and tan dachies through many of the seizures, rescued my 2 pup from certain death and nursed them back to health and socilized them, I was crying with my cat when she was put down, and have spent hundreds of dollars on a $25 guinea pig. Im sorry, Iv left out a lot, but I have other things to do. But Im sorry Im such a bad dog owner, such an awful pet owner and person, so ignorant even though I could get a kitten to suck on a bottle and nurse when no one else could, and things like that.
what do you think of this?
- Thread starter kinda kookyee
- Start date
Bagel dog, are you actually stating that dogs form no association between a behaviour and a consequence?
Then, in effect, you are saying that all "experiments" and "theories" involving operant and classical conditioning are in fact false, and dogs actually learn through some kind of what, magic?
What is my dog doing when she is heeling perfectly, if she does not expect a treat as a consequence to that behaviour?
Then, in effect, you are saying that all "experiments" and "theories" involving operant and classical conditioning are in fact false, and dogs actually learn through some kind of what, magic?
What is my dog doing when she is heeling perfectly, if she does not expect a treat as a consequence to that behaviour?
No, Im stating that things like putting you dogs in time out wont work because dogs dont get time out. They dont get that their there because they did somthing wrong. All they know is that, as it could be in my case, there outside the training ring, and what fun they could have walking around the store.
Bagel Dog dogs really do understand time out. The problems is that some people want the training to be instant but it takes time. Hitting your dog is not the best option. You should really read about Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) training. I think it would give you a better idea about dog behaviour.
She didn't do the time out because she thought the trainer was foolish.
This reminds me of my bf who mostly raised his little cousin even though he was a kid himself. He used to give her time-outs too until he realized that she loved being in her room and reading. So he would make her sit in the bathroom for awhile. She has a lot of problems.
This reminds me of my bf who mostly raised his little cousin even though he was a kid himself. He used to give her time-outs too until he realized that she loved being in her room and reading. So he would make her sit in the bathroom for awhile. She has a lot of problems.
I didn't say your dog was stupid, an i don't even know what the dieing trailer trash pups comment was about, but what i was trying to say is that the time out only works if the dog doesn't like it! Your dog liked the store! it doesn't mean your dog is dumb or that you are a bad owner. Oh, and don't even think about talking to me about "wolves do such and such in the wild, so i should to". Dogs have come a long way from wolves, and we should stop treating them as if
1. they are still wolves
2. they think of us as fellow wolves
3. We have the timing and judgement to know what a wolf would do in any given situation.
1. they are still wolves
2. they think of us as fellow wolves
3. We have the timing and judgement to know what a wolf would do in any given situation.
My dogs have formed a pack. I know this for a fact. My dogs Juliette humps my other females dogs, and hold her tail high when they greet her, and this is what dominate wolves do to show there dominace. I happen to know a helluva lot about wolves. My dachshund pepper greets the other 2 dachies by slinking low and licking the sides of there mouths very excidedly, which wolf pups and less dominate wolves do to wolves higer in the pack. Hmmm... and lets see. Both canines, both look alike in the bone types in placements and things like that, both bark, eat mean, things like that. Now tell me, how far are they from wolves other than being domesticated and mutated?
Thats the thing with some of you people. NOT ALL but some, so dont automatically think im talking about you. You can't seem to grasp the fact that dogs arn't as smart as humans.
Thats the thing with some of you people. NOT ALL but some, so dont automatically think im talking about you. You can't seem to grasp the fact that dogs arn't as smart as humans.
"Smart" is not a word that I really like. Not for people or animals. Like the smart kids in school. I think there are many ways you can be 'smart.' And dogs are quite intelligent. I was watching a show that said that dogs can actually learn 100s of words if you teach them to them and speak in full sentences. We don't give them enough credit in my opinion. And if they are dedicated and intelligent enough to put all that effort in why don't we do the same for them. I think that we should help them understand what we want rather than smacking them around. All dogs are eager to please and want to learn and make us happy. Which is why it annoys me so much when people don't bother to find the best way to show the dog what he/she wants.
Well duh, dogs are going to display some behaviours that wolves have, same as any other animal that has been domesticated. Dogs certainly regard each other as pack, i never said that they didn't. What i said was, and maintain, dogs do not require wolf based behaviour methods. Words like "alpha" and "dominant" are so over used as to become almost devoid of any meaning whatsoever. We do not need to act like wolves to gain dogs respect any more than dolphin trainers act like dolphins. The whole concept is out dated
ROFLOL!!!!
I posted on this thread way back in it's infancy and forgot about. Boy! You have all come a long way baby.
Ok...now I get it...(I'm a little slow) the naughty leash is associated with being banished from the companionship and fun. Time out. Yup. That can work. I just did it last night with my bratty Chihuahuas. They were not minding the rules that they usually are so good at...staying on their rug by the door while I had a guest at dinner. It's not a "stay." They're allowed to move around, just not come within about 7 ft. of the table. They kept getting up and inching closer to the table. They're normally very good at this little trick. They look so cute lying down, watching and their little faces are so alert, tails wagging. Anyhow, I replaced them a few times, rewarded and still they were persistant this time. It must have been the irresistable aroma of the fajita flavoring in the steak, onion, bell peppers. (They can't resist that Mexican food) So, off they went without any anger toward them. I just calmly carried them into the bathroom and banished them till we were done. They just might remember for next time. They are normally able to wait on their rug until the end of dinner...no problem. Then they get some scraps for reward. It's a long time to wait for a reward so they get verbal praise until then. They are able to wait and remember. So, I think they'll remember this time out that they had and no fajitas afterward. (lol) We'll see. I'm having left overs for lunch.
I posted on this thread way back in it's infancy and forgot about. Boy! You have all come a long way baby.
Ok...now I get it...(I'm a little slow) the naughty leash is associated with being banished from the companionship and fun. Time out. Yup. That can work. I just did it last night with my bratty Chihuahuas. They were not minding the rules that they usually are so good at...staying on their rug by the door while I had a guest at dinner. It's not a "stay." They're allowed to move around, just not come within about 7 ft. of the table. They kept getting up and inching closer to the table. They're normally very good at this little trick. They look so cute lying down, watching and their little faces are so alert, tails wagging. Anyhow, I replaced them a few times, rewarded and still they were persistant this time. It must have been the irresistable aroma of the fajita flavoring in the steak, onion, bell peppers. (They can't resist that Mexican food) So, off they went without any anger toward them. I just calmly carried them into the bathroom and banished them till we were done. They just might remember for next time. They are normally able to wait on their rug until the end of dinner...no problem. Then they get some scraps for reward. It's a long time to wait for a reward so they get verbal praise until then. They are able to wait and remember. So, I think they'll remember this time out that they had and no fajitas afterward. (lol) We'll see. I'm having left overs for lunch.
CT, I totally agree. Dogs are more intelligent then Bagel is obviously give them credit for. My dogs will react to me if I just give them a certain stare. They know they were naughty and will go lay down and pout. Dogs react on a learned behavior. Consistancy is key. Nobody should be surpised if their dog is totally out of control if you haven't spent the time teaching him/her. And worse yet, believing its a farse to even try.