Trip to the Vet or no?

[thewhitewitchone]

I would like all of your input on this before I take Chyna to the Vet.
For the past 2, going on 3 (looks like) nights, Chyna has been waking me up several times to go outside to poop. Her poop is a little soft but not diarreha status. (I would call it "soft serve" like ice cream consistancy) Normally she would poop during the day but suddenly she has to go at night and I think it is too frequent to be normal. At first I thought it was from the bullysticks I have been giving her, though she never had a problem with them before. Today I didn't give her one but it seems like we are going to go through another night with me getting woke up. She pooped at 10:00 p.m. and just barked to go out and do it again at 1:00 a.m. I made sure she didn't have any food past about 6:00 p.m. but she does take all day to eat and never seems to want to eat in the morning.
When she is outside, she eats leaves and grass and chomps on mulch from my garden, but this is something she has been doing all along with no problems. I should mention that it has suddenly become very hot where I'm at too, which might be a factor. Does anyone have any clues? She really has no other symptoms of anything else except she wasn't as hyper today as she usually is. I am wondering if it might possibly be her food...maybe she has become intolerant of it. I feed her Nutro Puppy and I think it's the best food there is. Her poop isn't the same color as her food...it is kind of yellowish.
Any clues? Do you think I should take her to the Vet (can't really afford it, is why I hesitate) or should I wait a couple more days and see if it persists? She isn't dehydrated and is eating ok....
Thanks for any input! BTW...she is 3 months old...

Pam

 

[Saje]

Try giving her canned pumpkin. Not the spiced kind but plain. It's really good for both constipation and diarrhea. I give it to my cats, dogs and rabbits if they have any problems.

I don't think she sounds horribly sick. Just a bad tummy maybe.

Also, you should read some of the threads on here about Nutro. You should be able to find them if you key the name into the search opt. It's not one of the best foods out there. Innova is considered the best by a lot of us but there are some other great brands too.

 

[Mordy]

I feed her Nutro Puppy and I think it's the best food there is.

sadly, you are wrong. nutro is a popular brand, but not of particularly good quality.

i would switch her to a good quality food pronto (e.g. innova, california natural, eagle pack, natural balane, just to mention a few options) and give a probiotic supplement such as canine dophilus from natren, or NOW brand's acidophilus 4x6 powder.

don't bother switching foods over a period of time either, just toss the nutro and start the new one. keep some canned pumpkin on hand, it will help firming things up if needed. just make sure you buy the pure, unspiced pumpkin, not the premade pie filling mix.

yellow poop can be an indicator of liver problems, so if this doesn't change within a day or two after changing food, take your dog to the vet and have bloodwork done.

 

[thewhitewitchone]

I've heard about the pumpkin thing. Thanks for the help...we'll see what tonight will bring. She was acting perfectly fine today. Her poop isn't YELLOW yellow...it looked normal color today. (how do you describe the color of poop anyway??)
I am surprised to hear negativity about Nutro. Every Vet I have talked to recommends it and my previous dog ate it and lived to be 15 with relatively few health problems. What makes it not good and what makes the ones you mentioned better?

Pam

 

[Mordy]

veterinarians don't get much nutritional education at vet school, and unless they do their own research, they don't know much more than what the pet food companies (who sponsor nutrition lectures) tell them.

need some proof? have a look at the site of the "American College of Veterinary Nutrition" : http://www.acvn.org/758018.html - see the little logo? purina isn't the only company involved btw.

in regards to life span - it's just like with people. some folks can eat a poor diet, drink and smoke, and live to be 90 years old, or someone who is perfectly healthy could keel over and die at 40. genetics play a large role, but don't discount the benefits of a good quality diet.

if you want to know just why nutro isn't a good food, and why certain brands are better, have a look at my dog food website. this chapter is a good place to get started:
http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=identify

i'll be happy to answer any follow up questions you may have.

 

[Kate]

Hi,
I would try not giving any kind of flavored chewy bones. Do you feed her crunchy food, try that.
Katie & Kira the Husky

 

[thewhitewitchone]

I will look into the food thing...thanks.
Well, last night she didn't wake me up until around 4:00 a.m. and then again around quarter to 5. She pooped 3 times today already so hopefully she's pooped out (!) for the day. She seems perfectly fine so I'm wondering if it might just be a "thing" that will pass.
It's amazing how much you forget about raising a puppy inbetween dogs. So much has changed too in 15 years. What to feed, how to train....everyone has different opinions so it's hard to know what's right. I am not a dummy about dogs either. I've worked with them in kennels, doggy day care and pet sitting for the past 12 years. Sometimes I just think there is TOO much information out there. Every dog is different and what works for one doesn't mean it will work for another.
Yes, I'm rambling...I know. Sorry.

Pam

 

[candy722]

i think you should try Natural Balance. If your going to spend that kind of money for Nutro you should swithc to Natural Balance. Price is pretty similar and It's good dog food.

 

[thewhitewitchone]

Quick update....
Chyna is still pooping frequently....now not only at night but yesterday during the day several times. Her stool ranges from normal looking to loose (after pooping several times). She poops at 1-3 hour intervals. I took a sample to the Vet yesterday and it came up negative (for what? Parasites? What do they check for? I was in such a hurry yesterday I forgot to ask). I gave her some of the canned pumpkin last night - it didn't help. I gave her some this morning also. How much am I supposed to give her and how often? I am probably going to go buy a different food today. I wish they would sell samples so I would know if she is going to like it. I don't have money to throw away. If that fails, I guess I have no choice but to take her back to the Vet to have some tests done.
I am hoping it's the food. I good quality food should not just "pass through her" like this seems to be doing, right?
Other than that she seems fine.
One question...there has been controversy over whether or not teething can cause a human baby to have diarreha. Is it possible that this could be due to Chyna teething? I think she is undergoing some major discomfort because of the vengence of her biting lately. She acts like she knows she shouldn't bite us (she will whine and then hesitate and THEN lunge at us). Just a thought...

Pam

 

[Renee750il]

Teething could very well be contributing, or even causing.

Do get her some good, nutritious, non-toxic food though.

 

[showpug]

Has your pup been to the vet since you got her? I would be VERY suspicious of intestinal parasites. Remember, almost all puppies are born with roundworms and they often have other types of parasites as well. If your pup has not had a stool test done at your vet, I suggest you get one. Worms can cause problems like soft stool off and on and if they are left untreated they can lead to an unhealthy or even anemic pup depending on type. Puppies also need more than one dose of deworming medication as the dewormers that are on the market with the exception of a few are "purge wormers'' which means they kill the adults, but the eggs are left behind to hatch. I would also change the food, I have heard countless people complain of stool problems with Nutro. Keep in mind that with the large commercial food companies like Nutro, they actually can change an ingredient slightly and not have to list it on the bad right away...sometimes if you have stool problems after opening a new bag that could be the culprit.

 

[thewhitewitchone]

Yes...of course she has been to the Vet! She's had 3 series of her vacs already and 2 doses of dewormer. She had a fecal test done about a month ago and then again yesterday. It was negative for parasites and Giardia.
I didn't change her food yet. Instead, I bought two cans of I/D from the Vet to put her on a bland diet for a couple of days. So far it is NOT helping. I am keeping track of her bowel movements. She has pooped 6 times since 4:00 this afternoon! (it's 11:30 p.m.) right now. Her stool ranges from ok looking to slimy/mucousy. I saw a little blood in one pile this a.m. I will be taking her to the Vet tomorrow or Saturday, I guess.
I was hoping that together we could solve this mystery but I am beginning to wonder if something is really wrong. Still, she acts just fine....
I am bewildered.
Please, if you all will...say a little prayer that something isn't horribly wrong with my little one!
One other thing....does anyone know anything about hernias? Chyna has a small umbilical hernia. I am wondering if that could have something to do with it. I planned on getting it "fixed" when she is spayed. Help...anyone??

Pam

 

[Renee750il]

Changing to a Hills/Science Diet product probably isn't going to help any. To be frank, it's just more junk.

The umbilical hernia shouldn't really be causing the diarrhea, I wouldn't think. Surely, if it was, your vet would have told you by now? If it's one of those that is a little opening where the abdominal muscle didn't close, just make sure the intestine hasn't gotten caught and twisted there. THAT can cause real problems. But there again, any competent vet should catch that immediately.

Is Chyna still gaining weight at an acceptable rate? Is she getting dehydrated at all?

 

[thewhitewitchone]

I am not switching her to a Hills brand permenantly. I/D is a bland food that helps stop diarreha. Whether it's crap food or not, it works. We used it at the kennel I used to work at all the time and it usually did the trick. Seems to be working with Chyna as well. The idea was that if she had some kind of stomach upset, feeding her this would give her time to get over it, instead if further irritating it with her regular food. She has not pooped nearly as much today and it looks a lot more "solid".
She is gaining weight just fine and she is not dehydrated.
The umbilical hernia is very small (I read up on hernias last night and it appears that they're not all that unusual). The Vet didn't seem overly concerned so I trust she knows what she's doing.
Anyway....Chyna will be on the I/D tomorrow and then back to Nutro (for now). If the poop thing starts again...then I guess I will know for sure it's the food. At any rate, I am not going to abruptly change her food and cause her even more stomach problems (as someone suggested).
Thanks for all of your help. I'll keep you posted.
Just wanted to say though, that other than this forum, I have never heard anyone anywhere say anything negative about Nutro food....and I deal with a lot of dog people (people who are in the dog business). Also, I have a client who feeds her 15 yr old W.H.F.T. B/D by Hills and you would never know that dog was 15 by the way he acts. And, yes...I have heard negativity about Science Diet products but not the Veterinary ones (I/D, R/D etc).

Pam

 

[Saje]

Upgrading to a quality food can usually be done immediately and the dog will feel much better. It's when you change to a lower quality food that some dogs react to it. If you think about it, your doctor doesn't ask you to wean yourself off of junk food. It's best to start eating healthier asap so you can start feeling better.

 

[Renee750il]

Go check out Mordy's site to learn the real "poop" on dog foods. You can also check out www.greatdanelady.com for another independent and educated evaluation.

Bottom line is my dogs mean too much to me to feed them anything Hills/Science Diet or Nutro manufactures. Besides, there are actual high quality foods out there that don't cost anymore than either - and aren't playing their customers for fools by selling them cheap product at premium prices! I just hate seeing people get ripped off.

Also, I have a client who feeds her 15 yr old W.H.F.T. B/D by Hills and you would never know that dog was 15 by the way he acts.

And some people live to a ripe old age even though they smoke two packs of cigarettes a day, but that's not proof that cigarettes are good for you!

As long as the pup is gaining weight properly and isn't dehydrated I wouldn't worry too much about a moderate amount of soft serve.

 

[thewhitewitchone]

I dunno, guys. The I/D didn't do the trick....she still had some icky poop going on and though it wasn't AS frequent, I still think it's too much.
I put her back on Nutro but I bought a bag of Nutro Ultra and am gradually going to switch her to that. I talked to an aquaintance who works at Pet Supplies Plus and she seemed very knowledgeable about dog foods. We compared the ingredients in the various Nutro foods and Solid Gold food. Do you think Solid Gold is crap too?
I was going to switch her to Innova but they don't carry it at Pet Store franchises and we don't have any independant pet store owners in my area.
I think for my own piece of mind I am just going to take her to the Vet on Monday and have everything checked.
I'm not trying to start anything but I am wondering what makes you guys an authority on dog food. I guess I would ask anyone for credentials when it comes to something like this. Also, by the same token, I could feed my dog the best food there is and she could still die young from something (cancer, etc)...as far as comparing people who eat junk food and smoke and live to be 100. It's a roll of the dice. I felt an implication that I must not care about my dog if I am feeding her Nutro (the crap food). I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that but nevertheless....

Pam

 

[Renee750il]

We're not implying that at all, Pam. As far as authority goes, Mordy's due more respect for her hard earned knowledge of the ins and outs of dog food than most - inside or outside a research lab. I learned a great deal from Linda Arndt as well, along with having a good grasp of what is good basic quality and being able to read past the double-speak and misrepresentations that slide by on food labelling. A great deal of it is also being willing to sit down and look up each term used in the ingredients. That alone uncovers a lot of subterfuge from the manufacturers.

I picked up a box of Nutro treats once, not thinking, but when I got it home and had a chance to actually read and analyze what the ingredients really were, I decided against letting the dogs have any of them.

 

[Saje]

I think that everyone has to do there own research and come to their own conclusion. I trust Mordy's advice completely as she's done years of research and can explain things that I can understand when I read them but could never explain them to anyone else! Many people here have done their own research. I guess the key is to get information from unbiased sources and make your own decisions. And Renee's one of the best people for finding sources! And then there's the experience of people like Love4Pits who has ... how many dogs now? 30? And CreatureTeacher who is a trainer and rehabilitates and rehomes dogs. Until she recently moved I think she always had about 6 dogs in her home!!!

No one thinks you are a bad owner. Actually from the posts I've read of yours I've always thought you were one of the great ones! And you ask lots of questions... who could ask more.

 

[avenlee]

I know I always bring this up, but I'm no expert on dog's health. Has anyone considered your dog just might be in Heat. The only reason I mention it is Nora when she was in heat, went through the same runny poops and some with blood.