Today my CAO defended me hehe!

[gilles]

"Who authorized you to came in here????"

Such a jerk.

He's too young to have protective instincts. If he were another 6 months to a year older, I can see that being the case. But he's not. They mature slowly and don't understand the thought of threats and defense until they are mature.

i dont need authorization to walk across a parking lot .....i have land myself and people come all the time for picnics and i am happy about it ,,, i was just walking and in fact trying to pull the dog out... the guy could have asked if i need anything or he could have said hello at least ..... sorry but this is the way i am raised

 

[DJEtzel]

my dog is a CAO and he acted as such...i dont see the tragedy in that

The issue is that he's not acting like a CAO. He's acting like a fear aggressive puppy, which is going to turn into a big PROBLEM when he matures into a defensive CAO that isn't well-rounded already and understanding of real threats.

 

[gilles]

It's a mix of CAO and modern town/city that is the problem. I mean, what happens if someone does that and you're not ready for it? If the threat comes from behind you so the dog pulls you backward? Obviously he will just get stronger and more defensive with age.

true but that is the way it is ....all i can do is just be careful ..i cannot change the dogs spirit bred in him for thousands of years....

 

[gilles]

The issue is that he's not acting like a CAO. He's acting like a fear aggressive puppy, which is going to turn into a big PROBLEM when he matures into a defensive CAO that isn't well-rounded already and understanding of real threats.

volka is extremely sweet with kids even if they hit him...he is friendly with dogs even if they bite him, he was bit by a jack russel aggressively and he kept playing with him and was very sweet ...so i think he knows what a threat is and i think he is not aggressive at all ... and it is too early for you to judge the poor dog

 

[Laurelin]

true but that is the way it is ....all i can do is just be careful ..i cannot change the dogs spirit bred in him for thousands of years....

When you take on a dog like that you take on a responsibility to keep innocents from getting harmed by said dog. It is a huge responsibility.

You can't just shrug your shoulders and say 'Well, it's in his breed!' if he attacks someone for something like saying 'Hey, what are you doing here?'

 

[HayleyMarie]

I had to pop in for this one.

Protective instinct in guardian breeds can pop in a dog that young, but in saying that there is no way I would let a 6 month old guardian puppy act in that way. He is not near old enough to understand what he is doing and why he is doing it and probably reacting in fear. I was advised by my breeder to not allow Panzer to act protective until he is old enough to understand what he is doing it. They need to learn how to properly protect and use their head. Not to act aggressive to every harry and dick who talks to me in a deep voice and is not happy with me. If that was the case I would have a very dangerous dog on my hand.

And if you continue to allow what you are allowing that is exactly what is going to happen.

 

[Julee]

RTH, the dog is from a breeder who breeds them to fight, the poster "saved" (aka, bought) this one. He got bit by the puppy last (?) week when he pinned him down to give him some ear medication.

I genuinely do not feel you have the skills to handle this breed. Please seek help from a trainer who is well versed in guardian breeds, not just a regular trainer.

 

[DJEtzel]

RTH, the dog is from a breeder who breeds them to fight, the poster "saved" (aka, bought) this one. He got bit by the puppy last (?) week when he pinned him down to give him some ear medication.

I genuinely do not feel you have the skills to handle this breed. Please seek help from a trainer who is well versed in guardian breeds, not just a regular trainer.

Don't forget the part where the dog isn't even 6 months old yet!

 

[ruffiangirl]

There was a story about a guy in the USA who got one years ago, he had raised and trained and handled protection dogs, he got one of the because he didn't want to train a dog to be protective, he couldn't even walk it, it protected him for anything that moved, even cars and had drug him into traffic several times to do it...sound like an awesome pet for the city.

 

[AmandaNola]

opcorn:


So you have a fear aggressive 6 month old puppy, that you can barely control right now (never mind when it's full grown), "guarding" you in a place that is not your home, where not real threat was present? And you're what, proud of that fact?


This will end badly.

 

[sillysally]

maybe i'm missing a backstory, but a COA is a type of dog that will do that. I'd argue should. In a normal situation with normal people acting in a normal way, if a dog is fine, i'm fine. If someone quickly comes out of a room and speaks in an aggressive type tone to get a reaction from me, I'd expect a guardian breed of dog to react like that. I had to tell some people not to try and get reactions from my dogs because they might not like it.

now if you have a dog like this, it is YOUR job to make sure people people don't get hurt. Doing something like this is not a reason to get bitten by a dog. If your dog is going to get too big and you're not going to be able to control those situations, then you have to take steps to avoid them and keep everyone safe, especially your dog.

This.

Out of sheer curiosity, where does the idea that a breed heavily bred to guard can't show guarding instincts at 6 months come from?

I do think that this is NOT the breed for an inexperienced owner (or even most experienced ones), but I don't think it's that strange that this dog reacted this way. This dog does not know that the person yelling is the caretaker of the property, he knows that while walking with his owner at night a stranger comes out yelling "aggressively" at his owner. I'd think many dogs would take exception to that. Jack is a very human friendly Labrador who doesn't even bark when someone is at the door or coming into our yard and it would not surprise me if he barked at someone who behaved that way towards me in that circumstance (he has barked at skeevy/aggressive men when with me off property before).

I do believe that this dog needs to be controlled that that you, OP, need to get a handle on this NOW. This dog was bred to be a hardcore guard dog, and apparently also combative with other dogs--it is ESSENTIAL that you protect have control over the dog and protect the public from him.

 

[DJEtzel]

This.

Out of sheer curiosity, where does the idea that a breed heavily bred to guard can't show guarding instincts at 6 months come from?

I do think that this is NOT the breed for an inexperienced owner (or even most experienced ones), but I don't think it's that strange that this dog reacted this way. This dog does not know that the person yelling is the caretaker of the property, he knows that while walking with his owner at night a stranger comes out yelling "aggressively" at his owner. I'd think many dogs would take exception to that. Jack is a very human friendly Labrador who doesn't even bark when someone is at the door or coming into our yard and it would not surprise me if he barked at someone who behaved that way towards me in that circumstance (he has barked at skeevy/aggressive men when with me off property before).

I do believe that this dog needs to be controlled that that you, OP, need to get a handle on this NOW. This dog was bred to be a hardcore guard dog, and apparently also combative with other dogs--it is ESSENTIAL that you protect have control over the dog and protect the public from him.

It doesn't matter if it's a breed used for guarding. I own guardy dogs, a LOT of dogs are guardy dogs without being a guardian breed. German Shepherds are naturally protective.

But they can't correctly act on any of that instinct until they are mature. And a LESS THAN 6 month old puppy is not mature and has no idea what he's doing.

The instinct could be there that effects behavior, but it is not being used to "protect" anything but itself.

 

[sillysally]

It doesn't matter if it's a breed used for guarding. I own guardy dogs, a LOT of dogs are guardy dogs without being a guardian breed. German Shepherds are naturally protective.

But they can't correctly act on any of that instinct until they are mature. And a LESS THAN 6 month old puppy is not mature and has no idea what he's doing.

The instinct could be there that effects behavior, but it is not being used to "protect" anything but itself.

I guess my question is what are you basing the above information on? Sources, etc? I'm not trying to argue with you here, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[release the hounds]

I would not compare the protective styles of an lgd to a gsd. And regardless, a strange man coming out of seemingly nowhere and yelling will startle a lot of dogs. 6 months old or not. I had a similar situation with one of mine. She was 5 mos I think and I was leaving a hotel on new years night to take her to the bathroom. Anyway we walk out the door and a drunk college kid starts screaming g at his buddies about the police dog. Well she hit the end of the leash barking. I called her back and we kept walking. She was hackled and ready with her badself

Anyway she hardly grew up to be a fearful dog in the least.

 

[crazedACD]

The whole CAO situation makes me nervous but getting him defensive isn't going to solve anything. Gilles, I hope (regardless of what you post here) you realize what your breed of dog is capable of, and how dangerous it can be with someone inexperienced. Please take the proper steps to make sure your dog and the general public (are yourself!) are kept safe with good common sense. Just realize people on this forum don't want to see the dog get put down because he bit someone, nor do they want someone to get mauled by an "out of control" dog.

Does your trainer help you with solid obedience skills? You should start working on a really solid foundation...a solid recall, down, stay, heeling, all under serious distraction. Having good control through just obedience commands can be a lifesaver.


Also, FWIW Fiona is now 7 months and HAS shown herself to be appropriately suspicious. Normal people, on a normal day, out and about..she loves them all. On a walk in the morning with kids walking to school, or even normal people walking to walk? Cool! On a walk in the dark, a slinky guy just standing on the corner staring at me and Fiona? Yeah, she was appropriately unsure. She didn't lunge or go off, she did bark a bit (she is a loudmouth anyways) but she knew something was off. To her, people don't do that. She's only barked/been suspicious of two people, and IMO both were warranted.

 

[Whisper]

The whole CAO situation makes me nervous but getting him defensive isn't going to solve anything. Gilles, I hope (regardless of what you post here) you realize what your breed of dog is capable of, and how dangerous it can be with someone inexperienced. Please take the proper steps to make sure your dog and the general public (are yourself!) are kept safe with good common sense. Just realize people on this forum don't want to see the dog get put down because he bit someone, nor do they want someone to get mauled by an "out of control" dog.

This.
A CAO is a LOT of dog, and not for inexperienced owners. I have a lot of concerns since you said this dog is your first "big dog." I hope you realize you have a responsibility to keep our dog safe from the public, and keep the public safe from your dog. If you haven't already, I advise doing some serious socialization with all kind of people and situations. A dog like this needs to at least be able make a good guess at what is actually a threat, and not constantly freak out at people who mean no harm.

 

[Tazwell]

Your breed is inherentely cautious and watchful. Please train your dog, because if you cannot control your dog and call him off of a threat (real or fake) you do have a problem. He is young still, but don't let him continue to grow into unruly behavior.

 

[Romy]

It doesn't matter if it's a breed used for guarding. I own guardy dogs, a LOT of dogs are guardy dogs without being a guardian breed. German Shepherds are naturally protective.

But they can't correctly act on any of that instinct until they are mature. And a LESS THAN 6 month old puppy is not mature and has no idea what he's doing.

The instinct could be there that effects behavior, but it is not being used to "protect" anything but itself.

Protective instinct/guarding behaviors commonly manifest in puppies that young in some of the more defensive molossers (filas, CO, CAO, CAS, Tibetan mastiffs, etc.). It's not surprising and pretty well correct for him at this age.

Gilles, you should definitely not allow him to get away with behaving like that. CAO are very independent thinking dogs. If he does not trust you to make a judgement call on whether someone is a real threat, you have a big problem. He will decide for himself, and you won't be able to control him if he decides someone needs eliminating.

If you ever get into a poop-hits-the-fan situation with him and can't pull him off, wrap the leash around a light pole, tree, whatever is handy let him pull against that until he tires. You might consider upgrading his equipment too. My comparatively shrimpy borzoi has snapped well made dog leashes in half lunging at coyotes. Look into the leads made for horses. They're made for 1200 lb animals and really comfortable on the hand too.

I'd also look into harnesses and tools that make it easier to control him if he does respond like that again.

Keep doing obedience work. Don't. Let. Up. Teach him a bombproof "Leave it!" or "Aus!" He needs to learn that when you stay stop, he STOPS. Let me know if you need help with this.

Avoid getting physical. Especially physical corrections with a dog like him. They are wicked smart. He already knows he's stronger than you. If you correct him physically he will learn that human-dog physical corrections are okay. He needs to be managed and you need to lead him in a way that he understands you're smarter than him and that you control all the good things in his life so that he will want to look up to you for guidance. It's VERY difficult to accomplish in a dog like him which is why they are not for beginners.

These dogs will love you with all their hearts and they would die to protect you, regardless of how much respect they have for you. That's why you need to make sure he is socialized enough to recognize a real threat, and that he respects you enough to take guidance from you if he misjudges a situation.

ETA: and a LGD can demonstrate true protection at a very young age. Renee experienced that when she and Kharma were ambushed by two armed men, and Kharma was only 7-9 months old (I can't remember which exactly).

 

[gilles]

1- how many times i should say : the dog is very sweet and he will never is never aggressive with anybody , in fact his favorite place in the neighbourhood is to go into a hair salon so all the women there pet him! but it seems that all of you got this idea that he is aggressive just by barking at an asshole on the street! not sure why you keep bringing this up
2- will he be aggressive in the future???? who knows... i have the best pro trainer for him in the country and he will be training him for guard soon. he is an independent breed and will guard when he thinks he should. we will focus on training him to do so when we ask him to and not to attack unless asked to.
3- you keep saying i cannot control him ... the fact is i can...he is a puppy and i can control him as much as one can control any puppy . puppies sometimes can be difficult. on top of that he is CAO i cannot turn him into a cavalier kC ..if i wanted a Cavalier i would have got one!
4- yes he bit me once ...i was annoying trying to put drops in his ear....my 8 years old bichon bit me for the same reason! but he never did it again when i put drops in his ears...which shows he is learning
5- i can take a bone out of his mouth and he never ever bites !
6- after all he is a guardian dog and he will be hard to train...but i am doing my best. and yes i was proud of him yesterday he showed spirit and i would not kill that in him.

 

[gilles]

Protective instinct/guarding behaviors commonly manifest in puppies that young in some of the more defensive molossers (filas, CO, CAO, CAS, Tibetan mastiffs, etc.). It's not surprising and pretty well correct for him at this age.

Gilles, you should definitely not allow him to get away with behaving like that. CAO are very independent thinking dogs. If he does not trust you to make a judgement call on whether someone is a real threat, you have a big problem. He will decide for himself, and you won't be able to control him if he decides someone needs eliminating.

If you ever get into a poop-hits-the-fan situation with him and can't pull him off, wrap the leash around a light pole, tree, whatever is handy let him pull against that until he tires. You might consider upgrading his equipment too. My comparatively shrimpy borzoi has snapped well made dog leashes in half lunging at coyotes. Look into the leads made for horses. They're made for 1200 lb animals and really comfortable on the hand too.

I'd also look into harnesses and tools that make it easier to control him if he does respond like that again.

Keep doing obedience work. Don't. Let. Up. Teach him a bombproof "Leave it!" or "Aus!" He needs to learn that when you stay stop, he STOPS. Let me know if you need help with this.

Avoid getting physical. Especially physical corrections with a dog like him. They are wicked smart. He already knows he's stronger than you. If you correct him physically he will learn that human-dog physical corrections are okay. He needs to be managed and you need to lead him in a way that he understands you're smarter than him and that you control all the good things in his life so that he will want to look up to you for guidance. It's VERY difficult to accomplish in a dog like him which is why they are not for beginners.

These dogs will love you with all their hearts and they would die to protect you, regardless of how much respect they have for you. That's why you need to make sure he is socialized enough to recognize a real threat, and that he respects you enough to take guidance from you if he misjudges a situation.

ETA: and a LGD can demonstrate true protection at a very young age. Renee experienced that when she and Kharma were ambushed by two armed men, and Kharma was only 7-9 months old (I can't remember which exactly).

thanx Romy for your advice i appreciate your positive non judgmental attitude ...while everybody is on my case.. you are right he is surprisingly smart and very independent and it shows already... thanks for the advice on how what to do when he becomes unstoppable.
i will not let him down , i am with him 100 % ...it is a challenge but i will succeed ..ive got the best trainer in the country for him and he is planning on showing him as an example how obedient CAO s can be when trained properly.