The Best Canada Day ever..

samsa

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
37
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario
#3
Congratulations. An important win in the face of the ever-increasing Conservative push we are seeing here in our country. Hopefully Canadians can reflect upon that today, of all days.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2003
Messages
94,266
Likes
3
Points
36
Location
Where the selas blooms
#4
Congrats! Appalling to think it even got that far, though, or that there was ever a question of government being able to sue a private citizen for challenging its actions.
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#5
Congratulations. An important win in the face of the ever-increasing Conservative push we are seeing here in our country. Hopefully Canadians can reflect upon that today, of all days.
Never mind.

Congrats Island Dog.

It is a bit telling that a government had the audacity to even consider to sue a citizen based on political speech. Woe Canada. Don't worry. The evil conservatives will be gone soon. LOL
 

samsa

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
37
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario
#6
Vote NDP. I can't wait to see what happens when they get the controls.
Me neither :)

If there's one thing that'll get Canadians motivated to hit the polls and vote NDP, it'll be four years underneath a Conservative majority. The process has been set in motion, and I'm looking forward to 2015.

By the way, I don't think this conversation detracts from the OP's story. Those who are familiar with the Conservative Party in Canada understand the extent to which basic democratic principles are being stomped on so as to protect those in power from public scrutiny.

EDIT: The part I have quoted you looks to have since been edited/removed.
 
Last edited:

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#7
Me neither :)

If there's one thing that'll get Canadians motivated to hit the polls and vote NDP, it'll be four years underneath a Conservative majority. The process has been set in motion, and I'm looking forward to 2015.

By the way, I don't think this conversation detracts from the OP's story. Those who are familiar with the Conservative Party in Canada understand the extent to which basic democratic principles are being stomped on so as to protect those in power from public scrutiny.

EDIT: The part I have quoted you on looks to have since been edited.
Yes, I did edit it. I am not trying to start a fight.

I am one of the evil conservative types. But a real one. Not the type you get in Canada. I believe in FREEDOM. FREEDOM in ALL things. I get "we are more free because the government does X for us" from Canadians often. HA. "Freedom", as long as you pay those taxes and toe the line.

But I digress. Canada is a country with a democratic process. You vote. So you get what you deserve. Good for you. But try this... I looked at the NDP website during the last election you had. Lots of great ideas (ideas that history proves NEVER work, but that is not my point here)... But like all pseudo-Marxist people... They leave out the HOW. "We will provide X for all people." "We will provide Y for all people." Yet, they never tell you HOW.


If the NDP has a "HOW" in their platform, i'd love to tear it apart.


How are you "free", if you are dependant upon your government to provide you your healthcare? (How is a technological discovery a RIGHT? Rights come from God, not man. Another thread perhaps?) How are you FREE if you are not "allowed" to own the inanimate objects necessary to protect yourself? Etc..... FREEDOM is not easy. FREEDOM is not depending upon your neighbor to pay for YOU.


Island Dog. I apologize. Congrats again.
 

samsa

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
37
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario
#8
Hi Puckstop,

Just because we might have divergent opinions doesn't mean this will transpire into a fight. This disagreement is at the heart of democracy.

Anyway, if the intent of this thread is to just congratulate Island Dog (which is fine, by the way - and again, congrats!) - then perhaps we can carry our conversation to PM's? Although, I think it'd be a shame to do that, as I believe these discussions are relevant to Island Dog's story...and actually touch on the deeper issues at work.

I would like to respond to many of the things you've said, Puckstop - but will wait for either the OP or an admin/mod to let me know.

Of course, I have the "freedom" to just go ahead and respond here without waiting for a go-ahead. But I would like to think that the concept of "freedom" goes far deeper than just a mere ability to do-whatever-you-please. :)
 

Island dog

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
990
Likes
0
Points
0
#9
Thanks everyone. I know I'm insignificant provincially or federally, chances of being heard are basically nil. But I should be able to ask questions and expect truthful answers, and not be stonewalled/ignored in my little community - population around 1200.

It was a huge victory this week to get the Improvement District dropped from the lawsuit. I have an amazing lawyer. Now there are 8 remaining plaintiffs who must now cough up their own money to continue the battle. The next set of examinations for discovery are set for July 21 - should be very interesting and wonderful reading when we receive the transcripts. The last ones read like a Fawlty Towers skit.

Now to organize and get the money back these individuals spent suing me, knowing they didn't have the right.

The truth from the last 10 years is now being exposed - finally.

edit: I don't mind what you two want to discuss. My victory has no bearing on a political party - it's a little place with elected Trustees and an Administrator. I have been attempting to get answers since 2006, wouldn't stop, so they figured they would bankrupt me in order to shut me up.
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#10
Of course, I have the "freedom" to just go ahead and respond here without waiting for a go-ahead. But I would like to think that the concept of "freedom" goes far deeper than just a mere ability to do-whatever-you-please. :)

Fair. My apologies for my choice of words. It is rare that I encounter a person of different views who is willing to talk in a civil manner. I usually just get called a "jackass" because my opinion differs. (Ok, and I deliver it in a direct manner. I don't really do subtle.) :)

I would love to hear what you see Freedom to be. Considering what you have offered so far, I could guess. But that is not fair.

Consider this... Should civilization as we know it, fail... Are you still free? No more hospitals, grocery stores, ambulances, welfare, "free" medicine... All of that gone.... Are you still free? (This is a responce to the typical first answer I get from discussions like this. I am NOT trying to insult you.)
 

samsa

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
37
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario
#11
Puckstop, attempting to define freedom would be an impossible feat for anyone. What concerns me is the way this term is constructed within Conservative discourses today. I think that too often, people fall back on this concept of "freedom" to defend and/or rationalize acts of ignorance, hatred, greed, etc.

I apologize, but I'm not sure if I understand your question regarding "being free". Could you elaborate or rephrase?
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#12
Puckstop, attempting to define freedom would be an impossible feat for anyone. What concerns me is the way this term is constructed within Conservative discourses today. I think that too often, people fall back on this concept of "freedom" to defend and/or rationalize acts of ignorance, hatred, greed, etc.

I apologize, but I'm not sure if I understand your question regarding "being free". Could you elaborate or rephrase?
To me, it is as Madison, Jay and Hamilton elaborated in the Federalist papers.

Mankind is NOT perfect, it can't be, we are a sinful species. But we (should) strive to ensure the maximum liberty possible for the INDIVIDUAL. That is, IMO, the key difference. A collective cannot, the way I see it, ever be REALLY free.

I think you are stuck on the word "conservative". I ALWAYS LOL at what Canadians think a conservative is. A lot of Americans thought George Bush was a "conservative." HA.

The Conservative Party of Canada is as "conservative" as the Republican Party in the US is. Frankly, the way I see it... Canada has no REAL conservative or 'Libertarian' option. You are simply stuck depending on your neighbor to provide you services you see as 'necessary'. But like I said, if that is what Canada wants.... That is what Canada gets.


Personally, I want to be able to choose my own path and not force my neighbors to help me when I fail. If my neighbors WANT to help me, that is another matter all together.

Finally, for tonight.... Its way past bedtime... I realice that I am pissing against the wind. I don't care. I KNOW my history. I KNOW what I believe. I'm not ignorant or blinded by "Fox News". I am a gun toting, God loving, family oriented man. I'm going to die that same man. Period. :)

I look forward to continuing this. :)

G' Night. Happy Canada Day! (The day you were GIVEN your freedom. ;) ) Had to get a dig in. LOL
 

samsa

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
37
Likes
0
Points
0
Location
Ontario
#13
I'll admit - I laughed out loud!

Anyway, there is a Libertarian Party of Canada that exists. Although, you probably wouldn't consider that a "real" option given the fact that four or five parties dominate the federal sphere - and that's a fair point. But keep in mind, those of us on the left who would rather vote for the Marxist-Leninist Party or Communist Party of Canada also are left without those "real" options. As of now, it's a problem with the multi-party system - but it seems to be getting better based upon the emergence of parties like the NDP and Green Party.

My problem with libertarian politics is that it places far too much emphasis on the individual, almost negating the fact that we live in a society that has been structured unequally. Therefore, I just can't fall in line with the belief that individuals are free to experience the same opportunities in life if left to their own guard, because we just don't live in that kind of world.

I suppose we both want the maximum liberty for the individual. However, I do recognize that certain individuals have already been afforded with more liberty than others based solely upon histories that continue to privilege certain bodies over others. I don't see that as being fair, and in that regard, I see it as our moral obligation and civic responsibility to help those neighbours who are born into a world where they are not given the same opportunities. They are not "failing" - but rather, history has failed them.

You and I certainly sit on opposite ends of the spectrum, my friend!
 

Puckstop31

Super-Genius
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
5,847
Likes
0
Points
0
Age
50
Location
Lancaster, PA, USA
#14
I'll admit - I laughed out loud!
Sorry for the delay. Been working hard.

Anyway, there is a Libertarian Party of Canada that exists. Although, you probably wouldn't consider that a "real" option given the fact that four or five parties dominate the federal sphere - and that's a fair point. But keep in mind, those of us on the left who would rather vote for the Marxist-Leninist Party or Communist Party of Canada also are left without those "real" options. As of now, it's a problem with the multi-party system - but it seems to be getting better based upon the emergence of parties like the NDP and Green Party.
Wow. Cool.

You are a real Marxist? As in, for real, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Marxist? Sorry if this sounds sensational, but I have only run into ONE other person who admitted as much in my life.

It is REALLY refreshing, if you are, to chat with some one who will be honest about it, rather than try to bury such a belief.

My problem with libertarian politics is that it places far too much emphasis on the individual, almost negating the fact that we live in a society that has been structured unequally. Therefore, I just can't fall in line with the belief that individuals are free to experience the same opportunities in life if left to their own guard, because we just don't live in that kind of world.
Read less Marx and more Adam Smith.

How is it "fair" for the government to steal money I earn and give it to those who did not?

We DO live in that kind of world. I am, personally, an example of it. I grew up "poor", living on a farm and milking cows. My dad was a career soldier, who I did not see much until he retired when I was 10. Yet here I am... A partner in a VERY successful IT company... On the cusp of making MILLIONS. Should I be obligated to give most of what I have nearly killed myself for to my jackass neighbors who think I OWE it to them?

We DO live in that kind of world. All you have to do is extend your middle finger to those who say you can't do it, because of X,Y or Z and DO IT ANYWAY.

And you know what? MY success is going to help many other people. And NOT because I get to pay more taxes now.

I suppose we both want the maximum liberty for the individual. However, I do recognize that certain individuals have already been afforded with more liberty than others based solely upon histories that continue to privilege certain bodies over others. I don't see that as being fair, and in that regard, I see it as our moral obligation and civic responsibility to help those neighbours who are born into a world where they are not given the same opportunities. They are not "failing" - but rather, history has failed them.

You and I certainly sit on opposite ends of the spectrum, my friend!
Fair? LOL

Life is not fair. Get over it. Winners, win. Losers whine about life not being fair. This sounds really harsh, and perhaps it is..... But it is what it is.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal."
Aristotle

(It would not be a "Puck" post without a quote.)

Humans are not equal. We just are not. There are reasons for it. To make people "equal" means someone has to get screwed. People who think that it is the responsibilty of soneone else to make THEIR life better, are wrong, and will always whine about life not being "fair". Rather than, you know, using the God given liberty we enjoy to make their OWN life better.

Another one. This is for those who bitch about life not being "fair".

"Over, Under or Through"
104th United States Cavalry Motto
(This is the unit with who I served during the defining moments of my life.)

Finally... I see the world through a different prism my friend. I WANT to help those who have had less success than I have, but on MY terms. Governemtn is NOT charity. Government is FORCE. I wnat to give a part of my success to those that I want to... NOt to who some politician says I MUST.

There is a REASON why government revenues, history proves as much, INCREASE when tax rates fall.

/ long rant :)
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2007
Messages
990
Likes
0
Points
0
#15
I'm not on the same intellectual level as you.

I get annoyed when people use the 'life isn't fair' excuse. I know life isn't fair - how could it possibly be? Life is random. When people are involved in making decisions, that's when fairness can be exercised - it has nothing to do with 'life'.

Government - what good can be said about it - not much. Populated by unethical individuals. Even in my tiny community it's been a personal battle for me since 2006, and still continues as the legal case proceeds with eight individuals suing me for the statements I made regarding them in their positions representing the community.

Here is an excerpt from an email that was received by mistake last week and the individual was so concerned they forwarded it to me. One of the Plaintiffs (still holding an elected position) sent an email to his friend and this is a partial response from the friend referring to me. Another of his friends had sent me an anonymous email calling me among other things a c**t.

I think what has to happen is you get together with all who have been slandered by her and set a trap in her mail box that involves a gun, a bomb, and or chocolates laced with poison and when she opens her box it is self expelled. There has to be someone who can take her down. OMG
 

Members online

No members online now.
Top