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Y
I got Yukon at 9 weeks of age but he was up for sale at 4 weeks, which is too early. We plan in the distant future to breed gsd's but we have alot of learning to do first as right now I am one of those stupid people. lol We have been told that since we are breeding specifically for police work the guy who plans to be our main buyer, says he doesn't want the pups until 16 weeks of age. He wants them socialized and imprinted. So there ya go on that one. I also believe Yukon missed precious socializing with his litter mates. I find most breeders try to sell at 8 weeks, for reasons I don't know. Me personnally it will be 16 weeks and there will be a lifetime guarantee which is almost unheard of here. But I want to be a resposible breeder when the time comes. Need my house first because an apartment is no place to raise puppy's.
M
YuckDuck
No one should owe anyone an apology. Even allowing for age differences among posters, we should all be grown up, and have enough self esteem to not be insulted or have hurt feelings from what someone writes! As the saying goes--"I USED TO BE CONCEITED, BUT NOW I AM SIMPLY CONVINCED".
I am surprised I have the energy to make so many posts, but I seem to be on a roll, rofl. Usually thinking and typing take more mental strength than I have. And often that is why my posts are abrupt--halfway through writing a post I can feel my energy sinking down to my ankles, and have to finish quickly.
And if you all knew what a 200% grouch I really am, you would realize that I am actually being POLITE in most of my posts, roflmfbo! It is said that diabetes tends to make people short tempered and impatient--add that to a normally b---tchy temperament anyway, and you might understand what I am up against.
Anyway, I just finally noticed that Bridey is in Australia, which likely explains the fact of people letting puppies go so young. I don't recall reading of many top dogs in the history of various breeds etc coming from that neck of the woods. Plus, there are not the variety of breeds down under that there are up here and in Europe. Most of the breeds found in Australia seem to be of the herding variety, which are less emotionally sensitive and far more hard headed than other breeds.
The people with whom I have been fortunate enough to associate are those who are top breeders world wide, and who produce dogs that are top winners in the history of the breeds, etc. Many have passed away now, sadly. The lady who was responsible for me becoming addicted to Manchesters was instrumental in saving the breed from extinction in its homeland of England. She provided a stud to an English kennel. That stud went on to bring the breed back into existence. The facts can be read at the website of the English Manchester Terrier website. I think I have a link to them on one of my web pages.
I am very tired. Got to go pass out.........
No one should owe anyone an apology. Even allowing for age differences among posters, we should all be grown up, and have enough self esteem to not be insulted or have hurt feelings from what someone writes! As the saying goes--"I USED TO BE CONCEITED, BUT NOW I AM SIMPLY CONVINCED".
I am surprised I have the energy to make so many posts, but I seem to be on a roll, rofl. Usually thinking and typing take more mental strength than I have. And often that is why my posts are abrupt--halfway through writing a post I can feel my energy sinking down to my ankles, and have to finish quickly.
And if you all knew what a 200% grouch I really am, you would realize that I am actually being POLITE in most of my posts, roflmfbo! It is said that diabetes tends to make people short tempered and impatient--add that to a normally b---tchy temperament anyway, and you might understand what I am up against.
Anyway, I just finally noticed that Bridey is in Australia, which likely explains the fact of people letting puppies go so young. I don't recall reading of many top dogs in the history of various breeds etc coming from that neck of the woods. Plus, there are not the variety of breeds down under that there are up here and in Europe. Most of the breeds found in Australia seem to be of the herding variety, which are less emotionally sensitive and far more hard headed than other breeds.
The people with whom I have been fortunate enough to associate are those who are top breeders world wide, and who produce dogs that are top winners in the history of the breeds, etc. Many have passed away now, sadly. The lady who was responsible for me becoming addicted to Manchesters was instrumental in saving the breed from extinction in its homeland of England. She provided a stud to an English kennel. That stud went on to bring the breed back into existence. The facts can be read at the website of the English Manchester Terrier website. I think I have a link to them on one of my web pages.
I am very tired. Got to go pass out.........
yes. my pup was up at 4 weeks aswell(i know this breeder was not good), the most i could postpone it was 7 weeks. but just because of the owner dont punish the dog, if i didn ot take him, he would have ended in a pound as a lil pup, he doesnt deserve that. i knew i had time, money , and a warm loving hand for him. if i didnt take him because he was too young, and because he would have future behavioral problems that would need him to be signed up a puppy school (at least once) i think that would be selfish on my part, because where he would have ended up.
im glad to say though he is a mutt which also lower his chances of beiing picked over a purebred and who knows where he would have ended up.
i am happy to say this story has ended happily, so far..............lol
im glad to say though he is a mutt which also lower his chances of beiing picked over a purebred and who knows where he would have ended up.
i am happy to say this story has ended happily, so far..............lol
M
Yuckaduck......
You will go broke breeding Shepherds if you do it properly. Just trying to find dogs free of HD to breed will be impossible. And of course in most instances you DO have to guarantee hips. And breeding dogs for police work is not something most folks would care to do. Watch some of the cop shows, and watch those morons trying to control their untrained dogs that only want to mutilate, and will NOT release on command!!!!!!
Perhaps you might consider Malinois?
You will go broke breeding Shepherds if you do it properly. Just trying to find dogs free of HD to breed will be impossible. And of course in most instances you DO have to guarantee hips. And breeding dogs for police work is not something most folks would care to do. Watch some of the cop shows, and watch those morons trying to control their untrained dogs that only want to mutilate, and will NOT release on command!!!!!!
Perhaps you might consider Malinois?
My breeder was a very resposible lady, very loving and careful. I met Azlan's mother and father, both wonderful dogs. I obviously mix with alot of breeders, often times I visit them for behavioural issues and such, and have met alot of good pups and a few improperly socialised ones. I do some trick training and basic obedience with them, and they in turn give me some insight into breeding and such. I must admit I have met some bad ones (probably when I was frequenting some grimy ally with my lower echelon scum) and have been quite voiciforous in my personal opinions. By eight weeks I will not buy a pup if he has not met children, babies, cats, men, and been on numerous car rides. I also expect a pup to have been raised in the house, and come when called. But, us urchins are weird that way.
Y
Thank you but my heart is set on the gsd breed. Won't happen until we can afford proper care and follow up. Maybe after more research we will think differently but for now this is only a dream. I really lack the knowledge to even consider such a venture right now. I would be an irresponsible breeder if I did it now and that is something I never ever want to be.
Oh, I apologize it is Australia that is the scum? Quite frankly, top winning dogs are positive in phenotype only. That is not at all what trainers are interested in. Herding breeds hard headed and not overy sensitive? You must be joking. Border Collies, for one, must be one of the most sensitive breeds I have ever met. They are so in tune with their owner is borders on telepathic. Hard headed? I won't even go into that one. I really can't take much you say seriously after such a post. Sheesh.
M
Answers, Please?
Bridey, Dear
Well at least I now know why we fail to agree.....a slight case of obtuseness, rofl. And I notice you do not answer any questions. Such as are the parents of your dogs tested? Or don't dogs in Australia suffer from HD, Cardio, vWD, CEA or the like? What kind of vaccination protocol do they employ down there? Are there many in favor of the three year protocol? Inquiring minds, and all that jazz.
Bridey, Dear
Well at least I now know why we fail to agree.....a slight case of obtuseness, rofl. And I notice you do not answer any questions. Such as are the parents of your dogs tested? Or don't dogs in Australia suffer from HD, Cardio, vWD, CEA or the like? What kind of vaccination protocol do they employ down there? Are there many in favor of the three year protocol? Inquiring minds, and all that jazz.
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I'm afraid you're on the money about breeding Shepherds, Manchesters! Although they're the one breed of dog I never want to be without, sadly, the soundest ones I've had, aside from my first, who was farm-bred, have been rescued mixes, particularly Bear, who was a GSD/Akita mix and now Bimmer, who is a GSD/wolf mix.
Charley and I had discussed future Filas for police work, as we know some of the 'powers that be' and they are very impressed with the dogs and have asked about the possibility in the future (Charley also has a reputation around here for having bred very sound, old temperament styled Dobermans in the past), but knowing what I know about too many of the K9 officers, I would never, ever want to take a chance on one of MY pups falling into their hands! I also find it abhorrent to put animals in harms' way to clean up human messes! Search and rescue is one thing, but to put a dog - or any animal - in the line of fire to take a bullet instead of a human in the pursuit of a human or any type of warfare is just so wrong! We need to be responsible for cleaning up after our own - not pawn it off on another creature who is willing out of the pure desire to please one of us. We get bombarded with all sorts of wonderful, heroic stories about police dogs saving their partners and catching the bad guy, and doing all sorts of wondrous feats of valor, but the dogs have no real choice other than to race into danger and all too often suffer painfully or die a painful, frightening and unnecessary death. They've been conditioned to act against their own safety on the command of a person who may or may not have any real idea of what that dog is being sent into. And there are far more perps out there who won't hesitate to shoot a dog - who can't hurt them until it can actually make contact - where they would think twice about shooting an officer who has a gun! It's really a grossly unfair proposition when you think about it. Dogs don't care about glory, or promotions or having their names all over the news . . . and they aren't being paid to risk their lives either! But their handlers do . . . so why not let the handlers take the risks and leave the dogs out of it?
(This is me, jumping down off my soapbox now, lol!)
Charley and I had discussed future Filas for police work, as we know some of the 'powers that be' and they are very impressed with the dogs and have asked about the possibility in the future (Charley also has a reputation around here for having bred very sound, old temperament styled Dobermans in the past), but knowing what I know about too many of the K9 officers, I would never, ever want to take a chance on one of MY pups falling into their hands! I also find it abhorrent to put animals in harms' way to clean up human messes! Search and rescue is one thing, but to put a dog - or any animal - in the line of fire to take a bullet instead of a human in the pursuit of a human or any type of warfare is just so wrong! We need to be responsible for cleaning up after our own - not pawn it off on another creature who is willing out of the pure desire to please one of us. We get bombarded with all sorts of wonderful, heroic stories about police dogs saving their partners and catching the bad guy, and doing all sorts of wondrous feats of valor, but the dogs have no real choice other than to race into danger and all too often suffer painfully or die a painful, frightening and unnecessary death. They've been conditioned to act against their own safety on the command of a person who may or may not have any real idea of what that dog is being sent into. And there are far more perps out there who won't hesitate to shoot a dog - who can't hurt them until it can actually make contact - where they would think twice about shooting an officer who has a gun! It's really a grossly unfair proposition when you think about it. Dogs don't care about glory, or promotions or having their names all over the news . . . and they aren't being paid to risk their lives either! But their handlers do . . . so why not let the handlers take the risks and leave the dogs out of it?
(This is me, jumping down off my soapbox now, lol!)
Manchesters, Darling
I don't feel I have to answer any such questions, let it be known that I was satisfied with some eye testing and a good hip score. I also wanted to know what history the line had of collie eye anomoly and such. But I was a whole lot more interested in past training and working ability.
I don't feel I have to answer any such questions, let it be known that I was satisfied with some eye testing and a good hip score. I also wanted to know what history the line had of collie eye anomoly and such. But I was a whole lot more interested in past training and working ability.
M
Police Dogs
I am aghast whenever I do see the K9 dogs on the COPS shows on TV. Those dogs are totally untrustworthy and untrained!!!! I have seen them try to turn on their handler because they get so hyped up!
The funniest thing I ever saw was the show where the cop sent the dog after a perp, and the dog jumped up and grabbed the guy by the wrist. The guy grabbed the dog by the throat and held it up in the air (it was a male Malinois) and the cop was yelling "DROP THAT DOG!!! DROP IT RIGHT NOW!!!!" And the guy would not let go of the dog, rofl. How embarrassing for the cops!!!!!! That is one thing that surely would never happen with a Fila!
I am afraid that were I a cop with a dog, I would be the one getting shot protecting my dog!!!!!!!!!!
I am aghast whenever I do see the K9 dogs on the COPS shows on TV. Those dogs are totally untrustworthy and untrained!!!! I have seen them try to turn on their handler because they get so hyped up!
The funniest thing I ever saw was the show where the cop sent the dog after a perp, and the dog jumped up and grabbed the guy by the wrist. The guy grabbed the dog by the throat and held it up in the air (it was a male Malinois) and the cop was yelling "DROP THAT DOG!!! DROP IT RIGHT NOW!!!!" And the guy would not let go of the dog, rofl. How embarrassing for the cops!!!!!! That is one thing that surely would never happen with a Fila!
I am afraid that were I a cop with a dog, I would be the one getting shot protecting my dog!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with that Renee. I once did some training for the army with some shepherds. I was appalled at some training techniques. Food refusal? The easy answer for them was putting needles in meat and dropping it on the floor for those poor unsuspecting shepherds. I always wondered why they would risk the dog swallowing one and it puncturing his stomach.
As someone who has less than zero respect for what the AKC does to breeds with their mindless, Hollywoodish pursuit of this season's 'Look' with little regard to temperament and NO regard to working abilities, I personally don't place much stock in Championships and all of that business. But I actually work my dogs, in a different way than Bridey, but they are actual working dogs, not beauty queens. Physical soundness is imperative to be able to work, but as far as conformation goes, the most important thing is that the dog has the physical capabilities it needs to do its job happily and safely.
Come on, Bridey, you've got to admit that most of these herders really are somewhat, er, um, 'focused'
Not to say they aren't sensitive - they have to be to communicate on the subtle levels that they do with us, and it's a difficult thing to relay to someone who hasn't lived and worked with a herder. But they really can be stubborn critters!
Come on, Bridey, you've got to admit that most of these herders really are somewhat, er, um, 'focused'
Not to say they aren't sensitive - they have to be to communicate on the subtle levels that they do with us, and it's a difficult thing to relay to someone who hasn't lived and worked with a herder. But they really can be stubborn critters!
M
Well, you have completely explained yourself. And it is exactly as I suspected. A total lack of knowledge of canine welfare. Who on earth would put concern over trainability over concern of the history of cardiomyopathy (that's sudden death syndrome to you). Or vWD???? (that's canine hemophilia to you!). I'm sorry, but most people I know would rather be assured the dog will live a long happy healthy life before even worrying about training. Having a lifetime health guarantee isn't gonna help someone whose dog has just dropped dead at their feet....because it had a history of cardio behind it that no one bothered testing for.
Guess things are just done differently "down under". Perhaps we Yanks just value the welfare of our dogs more than we should. And around here in the states, serious training is not even undertaken until a pup is 3 months old. Of course there are such things as teaching a dog "house manners", but if you get a dog from a reputable breeder who has kept the dog long enough to instill good manners and canine/human interaction into the pup, this is not a problem.
Different strokes, I guess!!
Guess things are just done differently "down under". Perhaps we Yanks just value the welfare of our dogs more than we should. And around here in the states, serious training is not even undertaken until a pup is 3 months old. Of course there are such things as teaching a dog "house manners", but if you get a dog from a reputable breeder who has kept the dog long enough to instill good manners and canine/human interaction into the pup, this is not a problem.
Different strokes, I guess!!
I've worked with borders and kelpies my whole life, they are my two greatest passions. I find them to be VERY sensitive dogs, much more so than the average. Hard headedness? I suppose as a trainer I nip most problems in the bud so don't encounter much.I notice a great difference in show versus working lines though, and let me tell you I wouldn't buy from any kelpie show lines and very few border ones either. Maybe such specimens could be described as "hard headed", but in my experience border collies and kelpies are for the most part quite tractable.
ROFLMAO! You've got that right! For one thing, a Fila is going to take you off of your feet first, or remove any weapon from your possession - it's a funny little trait they've developed Plus, a Fila might very well circle around and come in from behind - a handy-dandy hunting trick when you're after jaguar. Not to mention the problem of dealing with the sheer size of the dog and the size of the dog's head, AND then there's all that loose skin around the neck. It doesn't really matter if you get hold of a Fila neck, all that loose skin just slides around the neck . . . There's a reason these old breeds developed the way they did over so many hundreds of generations . . .
Plus, a Fila might very well circle around and come in from behind - a handy-dandy hunting trick when you're after jaguar. Not to mention the problem of dealing with the sheer size of the dog and the size of the dog's head, AND then there's all that loose skin around the neck. It doesn't really matter if you get hold of a Fila neck, all that loose skin just slides around the neck . . . There's a reason these old breeds developed the way they did over so many hundreds of generations . . .Ha. Dogs are more likely to die from behaviour related problems than from health problems. Our shelters are overrun with dogs there for behavioural problems that could easily be worked out at puppyhood. I am tired now and sick of such meaningless and confrontational posts. To imply that I care little for my dogs is insulting and tactless. Training before three months of age is routine, all my dogs know how to sit,stay,down and target before this age. I train for many things, joy is the first. I love my dogs beyond myself and would gladly lay down my life for theirs at any time (hey, us urchins are a little backwards). I train for people with disabilities, and a pup can have a hundred tests, perfect parentage and stunning looks, but if he isn't working quality he's not in the program, period. I don't believe in trainability as the most important factor, physical soundness and temperament tie at number one in my concerns.
The differences in breeds, even within groups, can be significant, and you're right about the differences between working and show lines! Shiva's father was a show dog imported from Brazil, and you can really tell . . . while she's more impulsive than Kharma, she's also more tractable. Kharma is pure working dog and is much less impulsive, but infinitely more self-determined than Shiva. But then, these are herder/guardians who had to be able to make decisions and follow through on their own, very often working without any human supervision and dealing with wild cattle.
German Shepherds, particularly the young males, can tend to be spectacularly stubborn
German Shepherds, particularly the young males, can tend to be spectacularly stubborn
M
I was fortunate to become addicted to breeds that were not the victims of fashion. Manchester Terriers and Whippets have never been popular enough to be ruined. And I must admit that I am delighted to have been able to make a positive contribution to the betterment of the breed. One of my granddaughters was Brood B-tch of the Year a couple years ago, and one of HER sons is the Top Toy Manchester in Canada, with 8 All Breed Best In Shows. He is also #6 Toy All Breeds. And he also has his American Championship! One of my great grandsons went Winners Dog at the National at the tender age of 6 months!
I have seen what fashion has done to Dobes, Chows, Bulldogs, and the like. It is horrid for a dog to end up functionally crippled simply because the breeders want to win in the ring. The top U.S. Toy Manchesters were pieces of feces. Straight fronts (I mean shoulders coming out from under the JAW!!) And totally lacking in rear angulation!!! As well as close in the rear. Horrid. Anyone who has watched Westminster has seen Jake, the Toy Manchester. Piece of poop!!!!!!
But anyway....I started with Dobes, and was blessed to meet some of the top Dobe people (this is 30 years ago, now.) The Whippets and TMTs were a natural progression. I was properly brainwashed right from the beginning on how to raise and spoil rotten any dog!!!!!!!
I have seen what fashion has done to Dobes, Chows, Bulldogs, and the like. It is horrid for a dog to end up functionally crippled simply because the breeders want to win in the ring. The top U.S. Toy Manchesters were pieces of feces. Straight fronts (I mean shoulders coming out from under the JAW!!) And totally lacking in rear angulation!!! As well as close in the rear. Horrid. Anyone who has watched Westminster has seen Jake, the Toy Manchester. Piece of poop!!!!!!
But anyway....I started with Dobes, and was blessed to meet some of the top Dobe people (this is 30 years ago, now.) The Whippets and TMTs were a natural progression. I was properly brainwashed right from the beginning on how to raise and spoil rotten any dog!!!!!!!
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