Silent Heats

[IliamnasQuest]

How common IS this?

On a couple of other forums there have recently been a number of people making excuses for "oops" litters by claiming their dog had a silent heat. While I'm sure that it happens on occasion, I'm just wondering how often it's just a lack of observation. I think most bitches show SOME sign when they're in heat. The signs may be subtle but they're there.

I did a search and found this quote from a veterinarian, which kind of illustrates what I was thinking:

"..many veterinarians who do a lot of reproductive work think that the
most common cause of heats that appear to be skipped is simply that
they were not observed. Some dogs have very subtle signs of estrus.."

He does go on to mention the silent heat too. I'm just wondering about this because I'm seeing a LOT of people using silent heat as an excuse. (On the one forum, the bitch first was bred "accidentally" during a silent heat, the second time because the owners went on vacation and the people taking care of the dogs "accidentally" left them together, and now this poor bitch is on her third heat cycle and pregnant for the third time at the age of 20 months .. and this time it was done deliberately).

So to the breeders out there - how common have you found the silent heat to be? Is it a matter of actually showing zero signs of being in heat, or are the signs just subtle and a person needs to be extremely observant when they have an intact bitch and an intact male?

Neither of the bitches I've had that were intact had silent heats. Dora was very clean and it was easy to not see early symptoms but I still always knew .. and I was always aware of her cycle and when she was likely to be in heat so I was watching for signs.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[planet molosser]

Well once you have a breeding stud male I find their noses are better than any VET or test.

They know before you even see blood..

So I dont fall for 'most" cases of silent heats with the exception of the severe newbie pet owners, and or cases in which normal animal husbandry was NOT followed due to 911 or rare cases.

Example my dad decided 1.6 years ago to just DIE no warning.
All females were in Heat, I own the 2 studs they call Daddy.
I dont leave my home for long periods during this time .
Cause when their is a will their is a way with males getting to females.
But this time no choice , I had to lock them up in the barn I used Chains 12 ft barn doors `, Huge hay bales to BLOCK daddy from getting to kids in heat too young to breed and I dont inbreed.
I was a neavous wreck thinking at the funeral I am going to have my 1st accidental litter.

Thank god I did not however it would of a been a extreme reasons why vs a BYBbreeder excuse.

So moral of story unless they tell you something like this Dad died. the fence was taken down by the worse wind storm we have had, I was in the hosptial unplanned etc . It is not what it seems.

I see no reason for it silent heats are rare ( most cases owners missed the signs)and even so the male still has to be interested and show clear signs of mating which can be avoidedin most cases..

 

[LexTalionis]

Silent heat usually means the owner did not notice any bleeding or swelling. It can certainly happen. May not technically be a "silent heat" but if the owners did not notice, it is silent to them.

Most people do not check their dogs everyday. They rely on seeing blood spots on the floor or their male showing some interest. However, if a dog is cleaning her self and licking the evidence from the floor, or if you have a long hair breed or a dog that have a bushy tail that is always down, then you may not notice. Not all have a male dog around all the time either. You might have a neighbor with a dog that never gave you a problem and then when he smells the female, he jumps the fence over night and gets your dog. You may unknowingly take a dog in heat to the park and while you talk to a friend on the phone and not paying attention, she get gang rape by 3 dogs. Even if you did have anther male, he may be a lazy breeder who do not pay attention to the female unless it is the right time and only when there is no one around to yell at him or at night when it is cooler if it happens to be in the summer.

There are many such scenarios when the owners do not notice the dog is in heat until they hears her screaming from another room and discover their dogs tied together. By then, it is too late. There are also many cases when the owner doesn’t even know the dog have mated and was pregnant and wake up one morning to find a bunch of pups and believes it was an “immaculate conception”. Oops litters happens everyday which is why s/n is so important.

 

[wolfsoul]

My cobreeder has a 13 year old female who hadn't had a heat in a few years, so she thought. Her original vet told her that dogs go through menopause too (which is untrue of course). She never did show any signs of going through a heat. However last year, one of the boys got to her. Heard lots of crash boom banging, run into the room, and there they are tied together. Since then, she has started to noticably come into heat when it's her time. Strange.

 

[canadianmandy]

My dog had a silent heat last year she normally has her heat at the same time as her sister buddie. Well Buddie went into heat and was locked away and we were waiting for Lovie to follow suit. I was swabbing her to check for blood. nothing no swelling no weird behavier.. She is white so you would have thought it to be noticable. Nothing.. on a normal HEat she is very messy she is my diaper dog when she is indoors except when I walk. Normally they go into heat with in 1-2 days of eachother. She didnt every day for three weeks I checked for signes. nothing. At this time in my life we had just moved to Mo Our "friends" Tricked us into buying land from them which never was given to us though we paid in full. so we had to rent well we recooped our losses and saved up enough to buy the land we are on now(the dogs were not aloud in the ouse (sucks)_ (Which is better than the land we bought b4) Well we had decided to move to West virginia so We waited til buddie was done her heat and we left her and Love with my cousins and went to West Virginia to check out some land forsale. which didnt turn out and I came back a moth later to find Love a Month Pregnat. When I would call well were gone they would say things like man your dogs getting fat I think shes pregnnat to which I was scoffing saying ha she didnt hava heat so it isnt possible. Well I smacked down to earth when I came home and found my baby likje she was I was ticked. I do not however believ in any form of abortion so I took the responsibility head on and went through with life. Since then she has had 2 normal heats within 1-2 days of buddie. . Thank goodness but i have learned my lesson I will lock both up if one is in heat ...signs or no signs.

 

[planet molosser]

I have owned -own 5 Intact bitches the heat cycles have NEVER stayed the same they change all the time... NO silent ones just shorter ones or delayed ones or changed ones.

I spay females by age 6-7 Yrs so I can reduce the amount of bitches I need to watch.

As they get older the blood decreases, the swelling does as well.
But because I work them in 2 packs I can remove a female coming in as soon as a male is interested which to me is day before day one I have to go in search of the blood but low and behold within 24hrs of the males interest we got take off.

Its hard entering dog shows not knowing if a female will be in.

I find the only time we can screw up with these things is when we break our routine.

Years ago on day 21 male showed no interest and I left my hubby alone , woke up late too late to do my mourning ritual.
So I left it for him BIG BIG MISTAKE he let them get together, she was one years old , and they tied he called me screaming I ran home and I started putting SNOW on his you know what to get him off of her.

Thank god NO pups , yes I would of bred them later on like I did.
But she was too young and I had not OFA her hips yet ( ofa good later).

So that is why I expect and plan for things to go wrong with each and every heat cycle and take precautions for it.

I believe we are NOT judged by our mistakes we are judged by how we correct them.

So silent heats, or owner missed heats can happen to any one.
First time is just a mistake 2nd time it is a excuse and sometimes in the BYBreeder's book is is a planned mistake/excuse ( NO ONE IN THIS THREAD).

 

[adojrts]

I've had several intact females over the years, none of them have had a silent heat. Although most of them have been regular, I never take chances either. My stud dog (he doesn't get to breed all of them and often none of them (too closely related) he also starts to show interest in a girl about 3 wks out from her coming into heat, at that time the bitches behaviour changes. It is at those times that the bitches will fight etc.
Silent heats in horses is very common, they used to be called Spec Mares (had to be checked with a speculum in the old days before Ultrasounds etc) and palped to tell if they were in heat.

Lynn

 

[IliamnasQuest]

Thanks for the replies - glad to hear from people with experience in this!

My bitches have always been apparent, although the black one was easy to not notice as early.

I find it interesting that some of you have males that indicate beforehand that the bitch is coming into heat. Last summer I had Khana at a three day trial and she was playing with males and females, no one reacted to her in ANY way and the day after the trials she started bleeding. I knew she was close to starting and was really watching her at the show (and watching the males, all play was 100% supervised!) but there was NO interest in the males. I was kind of surprised .. figured that they should KNOW .. *L*

First time is just a mistake 2nd time it is a excuse and sometimes in the BYBreeder's book is is a planned mistake/excuse ( NO ONE IN THIS THREAD).

That's how I feel too. The situation that prompted me to post here was not from this forum. The poor dog is on her third litter at the age of 20 months and the "breeder" is full of excuses why the first two litters happened - one excuse being the silent heat. Her "breeding stock" has yet to be health certified too .. she seems to think that because her vet said the dogs are healthy, they're fine to breed anyhow and she'll do the certification later after they're two. The breeder she buys from does no health certification so there's not even a history of health testing (and he breeds large quantities of puppies to sell .. we KNOW what that is). But she insists she's not a backyard breeder or a glorified puppy miller. She thinks she's breeding the "RIGHT" kind of dog and that the breed standard is worthless (probably because her dogs don't fit the standard .. *L*).

We see these kinds of breeders all the time, unfortunately. It just always hits home harder when it's one of your breeds.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

 

[Miakoda]

Silent heats are not that common. They just seemed to be very common with irresponsible dog owners & bybs.

And I agree with the vet that said that most likely the owner just never paid attention to the dog vs. the dog having a true silent heat. Many dogs keep themselves very clean & the actual spotting/bleeding is minimal. And let's face it, most pet owners aren't checking out their dog's genitalia that much.