Service dogs - should certification be required?

[Danefied]

Cite proof of this. As far as I know, that is merely anecdotal data with no evidence whatsoever. I'm not going to make laws to prevent people's imaginations unless there's evidence that this is true, other than your own word.

what? So Rosie O'Donnell going on national TV and joking about her assistant faking his dog being a service dog isn't evidence?
Me sitting in the ER listening to the mom tell ME the dog isn't really a service dog but her kid was scared without him isn't evidence?
First my opinion doesn't count, now neither do my personal experiences?

The "Service Dog" in Africa would not qualify as a Service Dog here in USA. Because there's already laws to prevent that.

How do you know this dog wouldn't qualify? And at what point do we realize he doesn't qualify? When they're prying the girl out of his mouth? Wouldn't it be better to know these things before the dog is out in public?

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Breed specific legislations scare me. Certifying working companions make me nervous, too much potential for banning the use of ESDs and non-descript SDs not to mention breeds chosen to not be suitable.

 

[RBark]

what? So Rosie O'Donnell going on national TV and joking about her assistant faking his dog being a service dog isn't evidence?
Me sitting in the ER listening to the mom tell ME the dog isn't really a service dog but her kid was scared without him isn't evidence?
First my opinion doesn't count, now neither do my personal experiences?

You say increasing amounts of faker SD's. You finding two fake SD's is evidence that the problem exists, not that there's more fakers than before.

How do you know this dog wouldn't qualify? And at what point do we realize he doesn't qualify? When they're prying the girl out of his mouth? Wouldn't it be better to know these things before the dog is out in public?

You could already tell the dog was not a legitimate SD before he even entered the store under current laws. The man is not disabled.

 

[Danefied]

You misunderstood. The only time you have to demostrate it is in the court of law, because you are accused of breaking the law.

In other words, it would only happen if your dog attacked someone. Or if you've been repeatedly thrown out of stores for a poorly behaved dog.

So I can bring my toy poodle mobility assistance dog anywhere and everywhere and as long as he is well behaved, I won't have any issues?
Does this not seem flawed to you?

 

[lizzybeth727]

If someone tells me their toy poodle is a mobility assistance dog I'm going to raise an eyebrow ya know?

The question is "What tasks does the dog do to mitigate your disability?" If they answer: "He helps me balance while I'm walking," then no, I don't think that's a reasonable answer, and you could probably legally ask them to leave on grounds that it's not a legal service dog. If they answer, "He picks up things that I drop so that I don't have to bend over and loose my balance," then yeah, that's reasonable (my 7-lb chihuahua retrieves for me, she's very useful).

 

[Sweet72947]

 

[Danefied]

The man is not disabled.

He claims he is.

 

[RBark]

So I can bring my toy poodle mobility assistance dog anywhere and everywhere and as long as he is well behaved, I won't have any issues?
Does this not seem flawed to you?

Me? No, I have no problems with it. It's illegal to do so under the ADA, and there's no way to prove this, but the well behaved dogs are not the issue here. It's the poorly behaved dogs that are making problems.

Well there is a way to prove it as lizzy explained but, yeah.

 

[lizzybeth727]

But if you don't think there is an increasing number of people out there with a nice pet with a bit of training who throw a vest on him and call it good, you're fooling yourself.

^^This person would not be able to answer the two questions. And he'll probably disrupt the business as well, so you have three ways you could kick him out.

Breed specific legislations scare me. Certifying working companions make me nervous, too much potential for banning the use of ESDs and non-descript SDs not to mention breeds chosen to not be suitable.

ESDs are already banned from public work. They only have public access in airports, and only if the person has a documented (doctor's note is required) mental illness where flying is especially stressful.

But I do agree with you, that this does tie in closely with BSL.

 

[RBark]

He claims he is.

Well, he'll have to defend that in the court of law if it's true.

 

[CharlieDog]

I have very little to add that RBark, Nicole, Romy, Sael and Fran have not already said.

I have an invisible disability. I don't even like telling my family what it is most of the time. I live with it for the most part, and I don't really go anywhere I can't take my dog anymore anyway. Enzo is not an SD. She washed out, and so she doesn't go anywhere that dogs are not allowed. When she was in training, before she washed, I didn't NEED my husband, or my mother to go to the book store or the grocery store with me. I didn't need either one of them to come find me in a store if something happened and I got disoriented.

The not needing other people to just function as a normal person, to go grocery shopping by myself, that was worth it. The stares, the questions, even the people who screamed if they came around the corner and saw the dog. (seriously, do you have any idea how humiliating that is?, not nearly as humiliating as having the store manager come over to you when you're "stuck" somewhere and ask you what the hell you think you're doing.)

But to require certification, how are you going to fund that? How are you going to get people who are on a very limited income (I seriously live on less than 20 dollars a week, after paying bills that are necessary). I would never be able to afford traveling to somewhere to pay for a test to give me rights THAT I ALREADY HAVE.

 

[lizzybeth727]

The stares, the questions, even the people who screamed if they came around the corner and saw the dog.

That happened to me once, lady SHREIKED in my ear! Then she said, "Wow, I'm sorry but I just didn't see the dog...." like she was blaming ME for making HER scream in my ear!

/end rant.

 

[Danefied]

That happened to me once, lady SHREIKED in my ear! Then she said, "Wow, I'm sorry but I just didn't see the dog...." like she was blaming ME for making HER scream in my ear!

/end rant.

has happened to me on several occasions, just walking the dogs in public places where dogs are allowed.

 

[Danefied]

But to require certification, how are you going to fund that? How are you going to get people who are on a very limited income (I seriously live on less than 20 dollars a week, after paying bills that are necessary). I would never be able to afford traveling to somewhere to pay for a test to give me rights THAT I ALREADY HAVE.

I don't think the financial burden should fall on the person with a disability.

There is a facility locally that provides service dogs for children. The cost of raising and training one of these dogs is 20K or more. This group has figured out how to reduce the cost to 13K. I know they do a lot of fundraisers, they have 501c non profit status, and they do ask families to participate in the fundraising as well. Its a great program...

 

[Romy]

I don't think the financial burden should fall on the person with a disability.

There is a facility locally that provides service dogs for children. The cost of raising and training one of these dogs is 20K or more. This group has figured out how to reduce the cost to 13K. I know they do a lot of fundraisers, they have 501c non profit status, and they do ask families to participate in the fundraising as well. Its a great program...

Who is supposed to pay for it then? The taxpayers? Are we expected to rely on non profits to pick up our tab?

 

[Romy]

A while back a service dog in South Africa attacked a young girl in the mall, and would not let go. Can you imagine if something like that had happened in a litigious nation like the US??

Fun fact, that happened in another country.

Another fun fact, he touted himself as a highly regarded dog trainer (kinda like Milan).

He can claim he's disabled and needed the dog all he wants. If that happened in the United States (which is the country we're talking about) he'd be in court. They'd be scrutinizing his medical history. Not fun. You don't get all those rights to privacy of your medical records if there's evidence you're impersonating a person with a disability for fraudulent reasons.

1. He'd have to prove he was actually disabled.

2. He'd have to prove the dog was trained specific behaviors that mitigated his disability.

A lot of behaviors don't count if they aren't trained. Things like seizure alert don't count. And just one task is kind of iffy if you're in a court room. Unless he could prove both those things in an American court he'd be slapped with felony charges and fined a butt-ton of money.

Another fun fact: The mother of the child IS suing him.

The conclusion is, idiots can choose to break the law and endanger people's safety. They do it all the time. They can also face severe consequences when they are caught.

I like living in a country that historically, has been more worried about preserving the rights of the majority, even if that means a few lawbreakers slide through. I don't like this new America where every citizen is expected to go through nekkid scanners like we're all potential criminals. Likewise, I don't want to be scrutinized and carded every time I walk through the door of a grocery store like I'm some faker hugger just because those people exist.

 

[lizzybeth727]

I like living in a country that historically, has been more worried about preserving the rights of the majority, even if that means a few lawbreakers slide through. I don't like this new America where every citizen is expected to go through nekkid scanners like we're all potential criminals. Likewise, I don't want to be scrutinized and carded every time I walk through the door of a grocery store like I'm some faker hugger just because those people exist.

:hail::hail:

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Well put Romy.

 

[NicoleLJ]

I like living in a country that historically, has been more worried about preserving the rights of the majority, even if that means a few lawbreakers slide through. I don't like this new America where every citizen is expected to go through nekkid scanners like we're all potential criminals. Likewise, I don't want to be scrutinized and carded every time I walk through the door of a grocery store like I'm some faker hugger just because those people exist.

:hail::hail::hail:

 

[Paviche]

Out of curiosity, what is a hugger? It's been used a few time in conjunction with faker.