Service Dog question
- Thread starter smkie
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I've been really fortunate to have few experiences being told off for having Strider somewhere people felt he shouldn't be. Usually, because he still has his "in training" patch on people see that I'm not blind or in a wheelchair, and they assume I'm working with an organization and that he'll go to someone else when I'm finished. They are generally pretty surprised when I tell them he's in training to help me.
Yeah, I haven't had a big problem with this. ESPECIALLY when I work in a wheelchair. We teach clients what to do if a business refuses them access:
1. Explain that the dog is an assistance dog and has the same rights as a "seeing-eye dog." Most of the time this will diffuse the situation.
2. If they still deny access, ask to speak to a manager. Usually the employee will give you access without going and getting the manager, but if the manager comes, him/her the above.
3. If this still doesn't work, pull out your copy of the ADA law with the important parts (including the fines for the business when convicted) highlighted.
4. If the manager still denies access, ask for his/her name and have him/her sign a statement that says that you were denied access at this date and time.
5. If you are still denied, either take the statement and go home and file a formal complaint, or go ahead and ask the business to call the police right then and there. Often the police officers are not familiar with the ADA laws, so use your highlighted copy again.
Anyway, personally I've never even had to ask to speak to a manager. I don't think that any of our clients have even had to call the police or leave the business. Maybe TX is just different than other places, though....
1. Explain that the dog is an assistance dog and has the same rights as a "seeing-eye dog." Most of the time this will diffuse the situation.
2. If they still deny access, ask to speak to a manager. Usually the employee will give you access without going and getting the manager, but if the manager comes, him/her the above.
3. If this still doesn't work, pull out your copy of the ADA law with the important parts (including the fines for the business when convicted) highlighted.
4. If the manager still denies access, ask for his/her name and have him/her sign a statement that says that you were denied access at this date and time.
5. If you are still denied, either take the statement and go home and file a formal complaint, or go ahead and ask the business to call the police right then and there. Often the police officers are not familiar with the ADA laws, so use your highlighted copy again.
Anyway, personally I've never even had to ask to speak to a manager. I don't think that any of our clients have even had to call the police or leave the business. Maybe TX is just different than other places, though....
Sheena and I have been lucky with this. We have only been denied access once or twice and each time was resolved. We just finished a course at the hospital even. Everyone there loved her. Especially her little pink boots.
Sheena wears a vest or back pack, has her doctors letter and has her two tag. One is her free city liscense and the other is her Service dog tag. With ehr picture on it and every thing. I have been everywhere with her. From churches to clinics to hospitals. Never being refused. I think a lot has to do with how your dog behaves and how you seem when you enter. Like are you suppose to be there or not type thing.
Sheena wears a vest or back pack, has her doctors letter and has her two tag. One is her free city liscense and the other is her Service dog tag. With ehr picture on it and every thing. I have been everywhere with her. From churches to clinics to hospitals. Never being refused. I think a lot has to do with how your dog behaves and how you seem when you enter. Like are you suppose to be there or not type thing.
theres a couple of places online that make them...they are NOT cheap thought considering what they are and anyone with a lminator could make one...
they are no official tags ect so thered have to be the decision of if its worth the extra cash...
vintageboxers makes her own service dog id tag/card things i belive...shes be a great person to contact about id'ing purposes...
but quite honestly the only official thing he needs is a copy of the ADA's service dog laws, anyone not complying can be prosecuted, hand them a copy and if still no compliance all he need do is contact the ADA directly with names and dates.
personally for the cost of buying thses "service dog id tags" that are out there id spend the money on a service dog vest (just a simple one) and a patch that simply says "service dog", cary a copy of the ADA service dog laws (they can be folded and put in the pocket that most of the vests come with) and being its a psychiatric service dog i would carry a letter form his dr too (again the dog could carry this in vest) that states the man is under her care with her name/buisness contact # and that all questions reguarding his dog (im assuming the dr perscribed) should be directed to her. but that depends on how likely he is to be able to get the info out them himself...
i have a friend with a psych dog who is autisitic, when he gets nervous when confrtoned he just simply cant communicate, his dog has a sighn on his backpack that says "please read infomration in this pocket" in there is a contact name and number for his dr and mother so they can contact either directly if need be...
he runs a very fulfilling and normal life now he has his dog, but when confronted...
this area of ct can be downright horrible for people with service dogs.
they are no official tags ect so thered have to be the decision of if its worth the extra cash...
vintageboxers makes her own service dog id tag/card things i belive...shes be a great person to contact about id'ing purposes...
but quite honestly the only official thing he needs is a copy of the ADA's service dog laws, anyone not complying can be prosecuted, hand them a copy and if still no compliance all he need do is contact the ADA directly with names and dates.
personally for the cost of buying thses "service dog id tags" that are out there id spend the money on a service dog vest (just a simple one) and a patch that simply says "service dog", cary a copy of the ADA service dog laws (they can be folded and put in the pocket that most of the vests come with) and being its a psychiatric service dog i would carry a letter form his dr too (again the dog could carry this in vest) that states the man is under her care with her name/buisness contact # and that all questions reguarding his dog (im assuming the dr perscribed) should be directed to her. but that depends on how likely he is to be able to get the info out them himself...
i have a friend with a psych dog who is autisitic, when he gets nervous when confrtoned he just simply cant communicate, his dog has a sighn on his backpack that says "please read infomration in this pocket" in there is a contact name and number for his dr and mother so they can contact either directly if need be...
he runs a very fulfilling and normal life now he has his dog, but when confronted...
this area of ct can be downright horrible for people with service dogs.
A dog in training will get access rights if the person(s) training him/her have phoned and asked in advance.Usually SD trainers go in groups of 3-4 and they are identified by a bandana stating they are in training.
As for SD tags, they are more of a hindrance than anything else and not worth the money as they are not needed and the less the dog has dangling from his neck the better. Too much unnecessary junk seems to make people suspicious or think you are trying to prove something or hiding something. A doctor's note is really all you need in case someone asks and it's a simple matter to just show it. Most of the time it isn't looked at as the people in charge recognize the fact that you do indeed have it. I yet have to encounter a problem with my dog no matter where I go, people seem to be more educated today.
As for SD tags, they are more of a hindrance than anything else and not worth the money as they are not needed and the less the dog has dangling from his neck the better. Too much unnecessary junk seems to make people suspicious or think you are trying to prove something or hiding something. A doctor's note is really all you need in case someone asks and it's a simple matter to just show it. Most of the time it isn't looked at as the people in charge recognize the fact that you do indeed have it. I yet have to encounter a problem with my dog no matter where I go, people seem to be more educated today.
Actually many states mention rights for assistance dog trainers in their state laws. In TX, trainers have all the same access rights as people with disabilities. In my organization, trainers rarely go in public in groups of 3-4 (our van only holds four crates and we like to take more than one dog each), and our dogs are not identified as being "in training," they wear the same vests in training as they do when they are with their recipients. When they are in their early stages of training, until we are very confident that they will behave in public, we only train in places that allow pet dogs (and most of the time they don't wear vests there).
sprin...you shouldnt NEED to carry a drs note...buisnesses by law cannot ask for Proof disability and unfoofrtunatly while it helps YOU gain acess, what about the people like myself who dont carry a note on them, unfrotuantly by offering said note your encoraging the buisness owner to ASK for one form any disabled person entering their establishment and this in turn causes refusals of entrance to those who dont carry a note on them...and for buisnesses to disreguard the fed law because "well that other disabled person with a service dog had a drs note...they all should"
not nit picking for the sake of it, i swear, its just a peve of mine, unfortunatly all these badges, tags, bandanners vests ect that service dog providers tend to offer with their dogs combined with a shere lack of knowledge (because many establishments least around here hasnt a clue that service dog encompasses service dogs other than seeing eye dogs) actually makes it more dificult for those like myself that has a self trained dog and isnt willing to shell out $30 for a peice of red nylon for a dog that weighs 10lbs...
i begrudge having to carry round a copy of the ada service dog laws because i personally feel at the very least managment of ANY buisness should eb aware of these laws even if it does only come up rarely...but unfortunatly most people, managment/owner or not, havent a clue when it comes to service dog rights.
not nit picking for the sake of it, i swear, its just a peve of mine, unfortunatly all these badges, tags, bandanners vests ect that service dog providers tend to offer with their dogs combined with a shere lack of knowledge (because many establishments least around here hasnt a clue that service dog encompasses service dogs other than seeing eye dogs) actually makes it more dificult for those like myself that has a self trained dog and isnt willing to shell out $30 for a peice of red nylon for a dog that weighs 10lbs...
i begrudge having to carry round a copy of the ada service dog laws because i personally feel at the very least managment of ANY buisness should eb aware of these laws even if it does only come up rarely...but unfortunatly most people, managment/owner or not, havent a clue when it comes to service dog rights.
Foxy Wench-- My dog doesn't wear any "excess" junk such as tags, I.D. cards or anything else to attract attention to him or myself. I was told only once that dogs were not allowed in a store and I didn't even have to answer, when I turned to look at whoever was speaking to me another clerk was rushing up to tell the one who spoke that she had no right to say that as it was obvious the dog was a service dog. I have a vest that he sometimes wears if I feel like it will stop people from annoying me. I have the doctor's note for my protection should something happen to me, not specifically stating that it's to give me the right to bring my dog along. I've never had to show the note and I don't. I have a card from the facility the dog was trained at which I also don't show. I've been at it long enough to know the rules but if someone were to ask I wouldn't make a production out of arguing the fact that showing I.D. is not necessary. And I wouldn't try suing them over their mistake. We're supposed to be ambassodors for our dogs and bringing an attitude with me and my dog just isn't the way I do things. As I've stated, I've never encountered a problem except that remark and I was just going to answer..SD.. and keep going.
i understand that and i never go anywhere with an attitude/start arguments...
nor do i feel that this should turn into one...
i also thinkyour VERY lucky to have no acess issues where you are, you must live in an area that is at least semi knowledgable on the laws...
unfortunatly around here...managment ill DEMAND Id and if you provide it once around here they wil continue to demand it of everyone...
other areas of the country are obviousy different but in this area having a service dog is like being labled as a freek with the plauge...
and unfortunatly even providing a dr's note or even PROOF around here doesnt guarentee...
ive gotten close to a number of folks with service dogs since theres aparently a limited number of us with service dogs that are NOT guide dogs around here we try and network..one of those friends has a toy poodle as a hearing and medical alert dog. she wanted a small dog due to mobility dificulties and energy concerns, and one with low shedding...
the dog wears a vest with a service dog patch...and on the front of her chair she has a sign that says "please excuse me, I am Deaf, please be sure to talk clearly direct to my face so i can read your lips"
she does carry her dogs papers form the school that traiend the dog as well as a drs note.
and because she cant hear anything and her speach can be difficult to understand she DOES hand over these papers, a copy of the ada, and her dogs service dog cert papers from the school...
and yet she has sooo many acess issues...
she was told at one point "your faking it"
shes had the cops and animal control called on her
shes been forcebly removed from a buisness
told to remove the dog
she had her bj's membership revoked (this particular branch of the bjs stores is now under investigation by their main office after complaints were filed by 4 service dog folks in 2 weeks!) because they "cant have that mutt in their store and if your going to keep bringin it back she couldnt come back at all"
and my favorite because its one i hear all the time "thats not a service dog, its too small"
i mean id understand if the dog was misbehaving, but ive never met a dog as well behaved as this dog, she puts many seeing eye dogs to shame in terms of behaviour...100% focused on her handler, more then quiet, i swear...its insane...
around here they either just dont know...or they try to take advantage of the facts that many disabled folks dont want/like confrontation and many will just not bring their service dogs to avoid confrontation.
i do 100% understand being an ambassador for other folks with service dogs...BUT...
when its as hellish as it can be around here to get your acess rights recognized you get a little grumpy about it.
i do carry a drs not on me...that drs note states my name, my emergency numbers, my drs number, and what medications i am taking.
theres also a run down of what to do should a medical emergency happens.
one of rubies duties is to retreive this note from my purse (its kept in the same place at all times) but to the folks around here THAT is not enough...
i personally have been told that i HAVE to have an ID for my service dog, which is simply not true and should you try to explain it they ignore you, cut you off ect...its like trying to talk to a rabid racoon...
nor do i feel that this should turn into one...
i also thinkyour VERY lucky to have no acess issues where you are, you must live in an area that is at least semi knowledgable on the laws...
unfortunatly around here...managment ill DEMAND Id and if you provide it once around here they wil continue to demand it of everyone...
other areas of the country are obviousy different but in this area having a service dog is like being labled as a freek with the plauge...
and unfortunatly even providing a dr's note or even PROOF around here doesnt guarentee...
ive gotten close to a number of folks with service dogs since theres aparently a limited number of us with service dogs that are NOT guide dogs around here we try and network..one of those friends has a toy poodle as a hearing and medical alert dog. she wanted a small dog due to mobility dificulties and energy concerns, and one with low shedding...
the dog wears a vest with a service dog patch...and on the front of her chair she has a sign that says "please excuse me, I am Deaf, please be sure to talk clearly direct to my face so i can read your lips"
she does carry her dogs papers form the school that traiend the dog as well as a drs note.
and because she cant hear anything and her speach can be difficult to understand she DOES hand over these papers, a copy of the ada, and her dogs service dog cert papers from the school...
and yet she has sooo many acess issues...
she was told at one point "your faking it"
shes had the cops and animal control called on her
shes been forcebly removed from a buisness
told to remove the dog
she had her bj's membership revoked (this particular branch of the bjs stores is now under investigation by their main office after complaints were filed by 4 service dog folks in 2 weeks!) because they "cant have that mutt in their store and if your going to keep bringin it back she couldnt come back at all"
and my favorite because its one i hear all the time "thats not a service dog, its too small"
i mean id understand if the dog was misbehaving, but ive never met a dog as well behaved as this dog, she puts many seeing eye dogs to shame in terms of behaviour...100% focused on her handler, more then quiet, i swear...its insane...
around here they either just dont know...or they try to take advantage of the facts that many disabled folks dont want/like confrontation and many will just not bring their service dogs to avoid confrontation.
i do 100% understand being an ambassador for other folks with service dogs...BUT...
when its as hellish as it can be around here to get your acess rights recognized you get a little grumpy about it.
i do carry a drs not on me...that drs note states my name, my emergency numbers, my drs number, and what medications i am taking.
theres also a run down of what to do should a medical emergency happens.
one of rubies duties is to retreive this note from my purse (its kept in the same place at all times) but to the folks around here THAT is not enough...
i personally have been told that i HAVE to have an ID for my service dog, which is simply not true and should you try to explain it they ignore you, cut you off ect...its like trying to talk to a rabid racoon...
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First of all, is the dog a service dog (task and public access trained) or an emotional support animal (just needs basic pet manners)?
It doesn't matter for housing - both SDs and ESAs are covered under the FHAA, which is what covers access in most housing. He does not have to provide ID, but may have to show proof of disability, which does not have to provide specifics.
As for taking the dog to the hospital, he may be out of luck if he wants to take the dog onto a locked ward. Hospitals do not have to give service dogs access to locked psych wards.
It doesn't matter for housing - both SDs and ESAs are covered under the FHAA, which is what covers access in most housing. He does not have to provide ID, but may have to show proof of disability, which does not have to provide specifics.
As for taking the dog to the hospital, he may be out of luck if he wants to take the dog onto a locked ward. Hospitals do not have to give service dogs access to locked psych wards.
Foxy Wench I am lucky to live where I do since after reading about your trouble I'm glad I don't have to put up with that. No matter where I go I'm actually welcomed because everyone seems to love my dog. The city is very educated re SD though. My doc's note states what my medical conditions are but if I ever had to show it I would cover that part up. Of course if I happen to be using a wheelchair it would be pretty obvious that the dog is indeed a SD. The reason my doc put it on the note is in case I run into trouble and he doesn't want anyone getting the ambulance for nothing. The only time I showed it was to get the reg. tag the first year, now I just go in and they issue a new one, no questions asked. I wasn't even aware you had to register a SD until someone noticed I had no tag...it's for our own protection should the dog get away...no chance of that, but, never say never. Sorry you have so much trouble where you live, sounds horrid.
Agreed ^^. Though, it might be a combo of the people in Foxy's area, and the fact that Ruby isn't a traditional SD breed, or even the size of one.
Around here I am really lucky. Dogs are beloved in the northwest, and there are a lot of places you can take pet dogs that wouldn't be allowed where we lived in AZ. A lot of cafes and concert venues for example. In AZ there were cafes that tried to deny me access with a SD, but here in a Olympia they welcome all dogs. People ask a lot of questions. Strider isn't a traditional SD breed either, but he's so freakin' tall they just figure he's different and leave it at that.
LOL! One time I was at Cabelas (the zoo of snarling taxidermied animals are great for training) and an employee came up and asked if Strider was one of those dogs that people raced. People do race borzoi, and so I said sure they race them. Then he stooped down to look into Strider's eyes and said,
"It's okay buddy. You don't have to run any more. You're done with that now. You can just be with your people and relax." Then he stood up and got all teary eyed and ran away before I could say anything.
That wasn't quite what I thought he was asking, but..oh well.:rofl1: It's nice to run into compassionate people.
Around here I am really lucky. Dogs are beloved in the northwest, and there are a lot of places you can take pet dogs that wouldn't be allowed where we lived in AZ. A lot of cafes and concert venues for example. In AZ there were cafes that tried to deny me access with a SD, but here in a Olympia they welcome all dogs. People ask a lot of questions. Strider isn't a traditional SD breed either, but he's so freakin' tall they just figure he's different and leave it at that.
LOL! One time I was at Cabelas (the zoo of snarling taxidermied animals are great for training) and an employee came up and asked if Strider was one of those dogs that people raced. People do race borzoi, and so I said sure they race them. Then he stooped down to look into Strider's eyes and said,
"It's okay buddy. You don't have to run any more. You're done with that now. You can just be with your people and relax." Then he stood up and got all teary eyed and ran away before I could say anything.
That wasn't quite what I thought he was asking, but..oh well.:rofl1: It's nice to run into compassionate people.
romy and sprin, i need to move someplace like where you guys live.
if it wasnt for the fact that others in this are are having such issues gettign service dog acess rights id agree, yes ruby is "untraditional" (heck in this area its rare to find anyone thats even HEARD of a chinese crested, let alona accept that a 10lb dog can be a service dog...)
but unfortunatly here "only labs goldens and shepards can be service dogs" and "nly seeing eye dogs are covered under service dog laws" are some of the ridiculous things others like myeslef have told me through our little social group. one gentleman is new to the group, he has a dobie who is a seeing eye dog, he is completly blind, has a cane (which he only uses occasionally thanks to kimba his dog) and wears heavy dark glasses as his right eye is missing and his left one if so heavily cateracted that it tends to freek people our)
he had the cops called on him in a local grocery store because he was asked to remove the dog (whome im asured was not acting up) and he refused, they told the cops he "kept saying he was disabled but wouldnt provide proof and then caused a scene when security took his dog" the cops escorted him out of the store for being a "public menace" and when he tried to explain his blind and started routing for his copy of the ada laws they thought he was trying to pull a weapon and pinned him against the car. kimba did not agree with this and put herself between him and the cop at which point the cop threatend to shoot the dog if he couldnt get it under control...
he finally managed to say "shes my servcie dog" to be told "only golden retreivers labs and shepards are service dogs" he had to call his Laywer and his dr so they wouldnt arrest him...
even the cops are clueless as to disability rights around here its insane...and the "scene" he caused was him trying to tell the security guards to not touch his dog, he needeed the dog, its a seeing eye dog as they tried to pry the handle for the harness from his hand and kimba was obviously very upset (one of her duties is protective after some jerk took his wallet and beat the snot out of him.)
i mean quite honestly, its no wonder you dont see many service dogs out and about in this county...everyones too afraid of the drama...
im currently trying to get incontact with some local newspapers...see if we can get some kind of article published on it or something...the more awareness we can raise the better...but still...
i think there needs to be some kind of enforcment that managment and law enforcment at the least have to be familiar with these laws.
ive been told that the next county over here in ct is much more service dog friendly...theres just somehting about fairfeild county ct
if it wasnt for the fact that others in this are are having such issues gettign service dog acess rights id agree, yes ruby is "untraditional" (heck in this area its rare to find anyone thats even HEARD of a chinese crested, let alona accept that a 10lb dog can be a service dog...)
but unfortunatly here "only labs goldens and shepards can be service dogs" and "nly seeing eye dogs are covered under service dog laws" are some of the ridiculous things others like myeslef have told me through our little social group. one gentleman is new to the group, he has a dobie who is a seeing eye dog, he is completly blind, has a cane (which he only uses occasionally thanks to kimba his dog) and wears heavy dark glasses as his right eye is missing and his left one if so heavily cateracted that it tends to freek people our)
he had the cops called on him in a local grocery store because he was asked to remove the dog (whome im asured was not acting up) and he refused, they told the cops he "kept saying he was disabled but wouldnt provide proof and then caused a scene when security took his dog" the cops escorted him out of the store for being a "public menace" and when he tried to explain his blind and started routing for his copy of the ada laws they thought he was trying to pull a weapon and pinned him against the car. kimba did not agree with this and put herself between him and the cop at which point the cop threatend to shoot the dog if he couldnt get it under control...
he finally managed to say "shes my servcie dog" to be told "only golden retreivers labs and shepards are service dogs" he had to call his Laywer and his dr so they wouldnt arrest him...
even the cops are clueless as to disability rights around here its insane...and the "scene" he caused was him trying to tell the security guards to not touch his dog, he needeed the dog, its a seeing eye dog as they tried to pry the handle for the harness from his hand and kimba was obviously very upset (one of her duties is protective after some jerk took his wallet and beat the snot out of him.)
i mean quite honestly, its no wonder you dont see many service dogs out and about in this county...everyones too afraid of the drama...
im currently trying to get incontact with some local newspapers...see if we can get some kind of article published on it or something...the more awareness we can raise the better...but still...
i think there needs to be some kind of enforcment that managment and law enforcment at the least have to be familiar with these laws.
ive been told that the next county over here in ct is much more service dog friendly...theres just somehting about fairfeild county ct
oh the stories i could tell...
ive had my own acess issues but compaered to some mine have been nothing compared.
the one with georgie and kimba was only a week ago, he contacted the ADA to se how to follow up with this because he cant afford a laywer or anything right now and there investigating further...
i felt so bad because hes such a soft spoken shy man whos had it bad this past couple years, his dog has changed his life and to go through something like that...
ive had my own acess issues but compaered to some mine have been nothing compared.
the one with georgie and kimba was only a week ago, he contacted the ADA to se how to follow up with this because he cant afford a laywer or anything right now and there investigating further...
i felt so bad because hes such a soft spoken shy man whos had it bad this past couple years, his dog has changed his life and to go through something like that...