Raw just not meant for some dogs?

Amstaffer

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#1
I have been trying to switch Sal and Athena over to Raw (Natures Variety) and I have had some problems. Athena has had zero problem..stomach of Iron. Sal....well, he get the poops no matter how slowly I introduce the Raw or what flavor etc....

If I put more than a few medallions or ounces in his bowl he has the poops all day the next day. Athena eats the exact same food and has zero problems. I have given plenty of time before trying to reintroduce it and do it in small amounts and nothing helps.

He doesn't act sick but he even pooped in the house and he NEVER did that...not even as a puppy.

Are some dogs just not meant to have Raw....is it too rich?

Sal does have a very sensitive tummy :p , it I take him to family gatherings and someone slips him human (ie Burger or Hot Dog) food, it the same thing, poops all day next day :(

I talked to the vet and Sal doesn't have any parasites or health problems he can find.
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#2
I would say Sal is in dire need of serious digestive enzyme help. Some dogs just don't have the gut flora to deal with raw, and so they need help with it.

PM me and I'll tell you where I get mine.
 
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Bobsk8

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#3
Every once in awhile I read these posts on feeding dogs stuff that screws up their digestion, and to be quite frank, I just don't get it. :confused: If I go to to a restaurant and eat something and get sick from it, the last thing I am going to do is to go back the next day and the next and the next trying to force my digestive system to adjust to the food......What is the point?
 
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RedyreRottweilers

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#4
You are not a dog.

There are those, myself included, who feel that dogs need fresh food in their diets. Some dogs need help adjusting from a cooked basically sterile diet to one that contains more variety and a higher level of microorganisms.

Digestive enzymes will help with this.
 

Fran27

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#5
I would say, if you ate processed crap food all the time then switched to fresh meat/vegetables, you would probably end up with diarrhea too... but that doesn't mean your processed food is better for you.

Same thing with dogs.
 

showpug

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#6
Every once in awhile I read these posts on feeding dogs stuff that screws up their digestion, and to be quite frank, I just don't get it. :confused: If I go to to a restaurant and eat something and get sick from it, the last thing I am going to do is to go back the next day and the next and the next trying to force my digestive system to adjust to the food......What is the point?
The point is, is that he is trying to find a way to make it possible to give his dog the best possible diet. Some people don't want to give up the instant a problem comes up when they know the change will make their dog healthier in the long run. A lot of these problems are temporary!

Amstaffer, is your dog getting diarrhea, or just pooping a lot? I agree RedyreRottweilers about the enzymes. You may want to consider probiotics as well.
 
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Bobsk8

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#8
The point is, is that he is trying to find a way to make it possible to give his dog the best possible diet. Some people don't want to give up the instant a problem comes up when they know the change will make their dog healthier in the long run. A lot of these problems are temporary!

Amstaffer, is your dog getting diarrhea, or just pooping a lot? I agree RedyreRottweilers about the enzymes. You may want to consider probiotics as well.
I doubt if there is any conclusive proof that a raw diet will be any better for a dog than a good quality dogfood.
 

showpug

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#9
I doubt if there is any conclusive proof that a raw diet will be any better for a dog than a good quality dogfood.
I don't know if there is conclusive proof that a raw diet is better for dogs. However, there is conclusive proof that a raw diet contains biologically available natural vitamins and minerals, digestive enzymes and certain amino acids that are killed in the kibble cooking process. This information alone tells me that a raw diet is better for my dog than a cooked, highly processed dry kibble. Not to mention, the fact that it's a much better example of what dogs are DESIGNED to eat.
 

DanL

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#10
Amstaffer- you might want to just go cold turkey on the diet- stop feeding the kibble completely to let the dog adjust to the raw food. Give a single source of bland raw food, not a premade mix (thats what you are feeding right? - that may be too rich for now) Also if they are getting too much food they can get the runs- between the kibble and the raw food it may be too much nutrients. If you haven't stuck with the raw food for more than a day at a time that could also be a reason Sal is having difficulty. He's getting mixed signals from the variation in food.

I had great luck with transitioning from kibble to plain raw chicken leg quarters. Within 2 days all 3 of my dogs were firm again. Feed that single source for about 2 weeks, then gradually start introducing a new food source- one at a time, one a week or so once you know they have adjusted to the new source. They may get the runs again with a new source. Be patient and consistent (just like training!). Even now, once in a great while one of mine will get the runs but it is the extreme, not nearly the norm. After a few months your guys will be used to a wide range of foods.

Some people say that plain yogurt gets some good bacteria blooming in their guts to help with the transition, just a tablespoon or so is probably enough. Also, plain canned pumpkin (not pie mix- the stuff that has no spices in it) is good to help either firm them up or loosen them up a bit if they are constipated- a little goes a long way there too, just a spoon or so.

Good luck, it really is a great diet and has made a huge difference in my dogs, especially our 13 year old.
 

DanL

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#12
I don't know if there is conclusive proof that a raw diet is better for dogs. However, there is conclusive proof that a raw diet contains biologically available natural vitamins and minerals, digestive enzymes and certain amino acids that are killed in the kibble cooking process. This information alone tells me that a raw diet is better for my dog than a cooked, highly processed dry kibble. Not to mention, the fact that it's a much better example of what dogs are DESIGNED to eat.

Add in the fact that the way kibble is processed- even the good brands- and there is even more reason to switch to a more natural type of diet.
 

DanL

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#13
I doubt if there is any conclusive proof that a raw diet will be any better for a dog than a good quality dogfood.

All those years of evolution and eating raw meat are probably a little bit of proof. Kibble is nothing more than a convenience for us. Just like all the processed food we eat out of convenience that is now being shown to be so bad for us.
 
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Bobsk8

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#14
All those years of evolution and eating raw meat are probably a little bit of proof. Kibble is nothing more than a convenience for us. Just like all the processed food we eat out of convenience that is now being shown to be so bad for us.
Before humans discovered fire, I guess they must have had to eat alot of raw meat too... Hmm... I think I feel like having some raw chicken wings tonight :lol-sign: ....
 

DanL

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#15
Before humans discovered fire, I guess they must have eaten alot of raw meat too... Hmm... I think I feel like some raw chicken wings :lol-sign: ....

Sure, humans ate a lot of raw meat back then. We still do- do you enjoy sushi? I do. I enjoy my steak nice and rare too. My chicken does need to be well done. :) I imagine the consititution of a human prior to the advent of fire would have handled a lot more bacteria than we can handle now, but you are looking at tens of thousands of years of evolution since that time.

When you really look at history, kibble has only been around for a short time, since the '40's or something like that. Prior to that dogs were fed scraps and all kinds of stuff, raw food included.
 

Herschel

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#16
I agree with Bobsk8. What's the point of forcing the dog if it just isn't working out?

Showpug, your point about raw containing more biologically available amino acids isn't really a point at all. Yes, the amino acids in raw may have a higher biological value, but that doesn't mean that kibble can't fulfill the needs of the dog. Vegetarians (like myself) eat foods (such as lentils, etc.) that have protein with a lower biological value than animal-derived proteins. Does that mean that a vegetarian diet is less healthy? No, the contrary is more likely, but it does mean that vegetarians need to look at more diverse foods to fulfill their nutritional requirements. Similarly, the processed protein in kibble might have a lower biological value, but that doesn't mean that the the right combination of ingredients won't help dogs thrive.

High quality, natural kibble is nutritionally complete and many dogs thrive on it. Yes, it may be more convenient than raw, but that doesn't make it any worse in terms of nutrition.
 

juliefurry

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#17
I do have to agree that some dogs just can't handle raw. Hannah is an example of one of those dogs. We tried her on raw for about a month and she could only tolerate chicken leg quarters. Anything else (ground turkey, ground beef, chicken breasts) she would get severe diarrhea that would last for days. We have considered trying Holly on raw but are afraid of what the outcome might be seeing as her tummy gets sick from everything (her kibble, treats, any scraps she may pick up).
 
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showpug

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#18
I agree with Bobsk8. What's the point of forcing the dog if it just isn't working out?

Showpug, your point about raw containing more biologically available amino acids isn't really a point at all. Yes, the amino acids in raw may have a higher biological value, but that doesn't mean that kibble can't fulfill the needs of the dog. Vegetarians (like myself) eat foods (such as lentils, etc.) that have protein with a lower biological value than animal-derived proteins. Does that mean that a vegetarian diet is less healthy? No, the contrary is more likely, but it does mean that vegetarians need to look at more diverse foods to fulfill their nutritional requirements. Similarly, the processed protein in kibble might have a lower biological value, but that doesn't mean that the the right combination of ingredients won't help dogs thrive.

High quality, natural kibble is nutritionally complete and many dogs thrive on it. Yes, it may be more convenient than raw, but that doesn't make it any worse in terms of nutrition.
Hmmm...where did I say that kibble can't fulfill the needs of a dog? Of course it can. My dogs eat both kibble and raw. I just think it's naive to assume that processed food is better than fresh raw food. Food in it's natural state is complete. Humans created processing of food for shelf life and convenience. Dogs can do just fine on high quality kibble, my dogs did for years. I must admit however, that I have noticed quite a change over the last two months since I have started incorporating raw into their diets as well.

Different things work for different dogs. If my dogs had severe diarrhea on a raw feeding program then I probably wouldn't stick it out for very long. BUT, I do commend Amstaffer for not just giving up and seeking more information on the subject, there is nothing wrong with that.

I think it's worth pointing out that canine disease and cancer is at an all time high, even despite the great kibble diets available. I think there is a reason behind that and it should not be ignored. I think dogs need less processing, whether it's raw or home cooked diets, I think they could benefit from them more than they could the same kibble day in and day out!
 

pancho

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#19
Like DanL said, the leg quarters may help. Be sure to leave the bone in, it will firm up the droppings. Within a very few days you will see less and what there is will be small and firm.
 

DanL

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#20
I agree with Bobsk8. What's the point of forcing the dog if it just isn't working out?

High quality, natural kibble is nutritionally complete and many dogs thrive on it. Yes, it may be more convenient than raw, but that doesn't make it any worse in terms of nutrition.
I don't think Amstaffer is forcing anything. He simply needs to go about it a little differently and then see how Sal does on the diet. It's not a diet you go from zero to 60 on in a couple days.

Have you ever read the websites that tell you how kibble is made? It may change your mind on how good it is for your dog. Yes it's nutritionally complete because they add everything back in that was rendered out, but the chemicals used in the rendering process, the fats they spray on it to make it smell better and taste better, the other additives and impurities, all make it less worthwhile for me personally. It'd be like eating fast food every day. Yes its nutritionally complete, but it's got a lot of other stuff in it that you don't need.
 

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